A limitation in Fantasy fiction

I had this realization a while ago.
I'm writing in English both text and dialogue. But my characters would be speaking in their native language, which I can't write in through dialogue because no one would understand it. So how do I let my readers know they are speaking in another language? how do I tell them what it sounds like? I can't use any common phrases like 'they spoke in an unknown language' or 'in a language I didn't understand'. Because my character does know the language.

It's hard to create names as well. Especially when you're not a language expert.

 

You could use a different symbol than quotation marks to set off their dialogue (I do this a fair bit with deaf characters who use sign language), or simply note that "they switched to X language when they spoke next".

 

Excellent point Skip. I'm painfully aware of this problem. There is a certain freedom in writing fantasy, to be sure. But writing something contemporary, or that takes place in the 'real' world, a whole universe of references packed with meaning are at the author's disposal, and that's a powerful arsenal.

I tend to identify the problem this way. Look at these two place names:

New York City

Atledon

The first is known by just about everyone and has thousands of associations built right in.

The second is a name of a city in my fantasy world that puts exactly zero associations in a reader's head. Encountered for the first time, it is nothing more than a name.

That is a HUGE deficit and difficult to make up for. Poor us, indeed. I think I'm going to cry now--

 

Ayup, don't even wanna say "okay" LOL. There's a huge variety of words that get thrown right out the window writing epic fantasy fiction, but at the same time, we get to bring back old words that modern works shouldn't really contain.

 

Hm...no. We only risk losing our readers if we do not provide them with a fulfilling reading experience. Modern language is the way to communicate with our modern readers, even if we write fantasy. So needing to change up the way we narrate (language) is just another element of writing fantasy fiction. However, I've come across many a good fantasy novel with modern dialogue and narrative and I still enjoyed them.

 

This is a sliding scale that can only be taken so far. Modern language includes modern words. How far would we take it? Would we avoid using the word "input" in a fantasy novel because of its origins with computers? I've seen fantasy writers reference scientific concepts (like evolution) that their characters wouldn't be familiar with given the level of scientific advancement, or talk about hypothermia, showing medical knowledge beyond the level of advancement in their world...Or using the term "okay." There are lots of words as new as that one that we use regularly, even in fantasy novels.

We can't really get away from the fact that we speak modern language, and we have to use language our readers speak and use to communicate our stories, because we live in the modern age.

Last time I read the Narnia books I thought it was funny that all the characters talk like British people from the 50's despite being in a fantasy world. That was when I realized that no matter what you do, the language you use is confined to your own time and place to a degree.

I mean, if we couldn't use any word with a modern origin we'd have to write in freaking Old English or something.

 

Writing is always going to be a balance between limitations and freedoms, and ultimately it is our job—our responsibility—as an author to use the language we have at our disposal to create a mental framework into which the reader willingly immerses his- or herself. Our choices of words and phrases are about creating ambiance, so we must select them thoughtfully to achieve the desired result. Nothing boils my blood more than having well-described characters in a vivid fantasy setting engaged in a dialogue that sounds like two high school teens at the mall. I think it should always come down to atmosphere, and if the words detract or disengage from the atmosphere, then it is the author's fault for doing so.

The fact that we have humans in a fantasy world, or a yellow sun and a white moon for that matter, or that they speak fluent English apparently (or whatever native language in which the author is writing), are simply conventions that enable us authors to ground the readers into the story we wish to tell without having to explain every detail of the universe. Our word and dialogue choices become a shifting balance between the familiar and the fantastical, all with the goal of engagement.

A passage I wrote in one of my stories, bends the rules perhaps, but (hopefully) achieves the desired result:

I figure if humans can exist in my fantasy world, then some Valkyrie-like mythos is just as possible. Using one made-up word in context carries all the same connotation without having to break off into a superfluous depiction of who or what vaikyrae are, because it is not that significant to the story.

So yes, fantasy writers have limitations, but no more so than any other genre that is defined by the setting and atmosphere in which the story takes place. The detective in a suspense novel might not have a crystal ball or a magic sword, but she has an iphone and a gun at her disposal, so its all good. Just don't break the illusion, and I, as a reader, am willing to suspend disbelief as long as necessary.

 

Well, I will say that when reading a fantasy piece that is supposed to be of a certain type of earlier time period, the modern references do take me out of the story. Perhaps the writing in them was poor already and so I noticed more. For myself, I try not to use words that would not be from period in describing things, or really from the outside of the POV characters experience. For example, a farm hand might know something is white as milk, but not say white as a polar bear if they don't know what a polar bear is. And so, while I might be free to make the reference as a writer, I would avoid it because the character does not.

When I was younger, I tended to put things meant to be foreign language in italics as a way to show it was being translated from a different language by a character who would know what they were saying. Now I just make a notation.

"That bear is white a milk," the man said his native tongue.

"Its a polar bear," I replied back in my own.

Anyway, different strokes... I think more important is to have a method is stick to it. The reader will adapt if they are enjoying the story.

 

"That creature is white as milk," the man said his native tongue.

"It's a polar bear," I replied back in my own.

"A polar what?"

I just looked at him, stumped. How had he understood me? ​

Heh. But I agree with your other points. I can easily be thrown out of a fantasy novel when I encounter modern language and sensibilities, unless it's a comedy or set in our own world.

More than that, I'm actually offended, sometimes. I feel that the writer simply doesn't care and will take the easy route, darn it. And I don't always buy the whole Translation Excuse. But then not all translation is like all other translation, and not every case is equally bad.

 

And while they were both working out their various language difficulties, they were both eaten by a large white creature.

Yeah, offended might too strong a term for what I feel, but I do think less of the work. Last one I noted it in was Sword of Shannara, which I sort of recently read, and had lots of errors I would chalk up to beginner writing. I know I was late to read that one, but I don't think I will continue with anything past it.

 

I have a couple of languages in my novel and I have tried to use different fantasy means to make it accessible to the reader.

1: The use of magic to allow a character to instantly understand the language until it wears off or the need to know it is over.

2: The language is being used to show that some other information is being said that the MC does not understand himself. If say you come across people speaking a different language often times there are english words strewn in that you can have a very generic idea of what is being said.

3: Having another character respond next in the dialog in english to give either the translation directly or to make a passing comment or question that then gives the reader the intended information.

4: If using harder to read older dialects I will have my MC point out that it is hard to listen to and to talk in "common tongue".


Honestly there are people out there that absolutely love fantasy languages if they are full fledged languages. Look at the Dothraki language from game of thrones or the Klingon language. To those people it adds immersion.

But to others it is distracting and a waste of a sentence. I think it just depends on what you use and how you use it that counts.

In the example used in this thread of the fleet commander attending the committee meeting. They might be extremely well educated and that is just how they talk. Maybe not all of them talk in an educated tone and others hate when they talk like that and show it. Maybe it creates tension with the individual ship crews as they feel like the captain is better then them for it with their big fancy words. With a clear defined class system in place you could find a happy medium of the way people speak that any reader could get behind.

Mostly it comes down to either going with it and making it work or not having it in at all. It sure is tricky but it could also be quite rewarding. If you do decide to use other languages or dialects or older forms of the english language just have your characters react to it as you would if you encounter someone speaking that way in the context of the scene.

 

Yeah, it was probably too strong a term, at least for describing examples in a universal way. I had in mind a certain type, where the author writes in a modern idiom with seemingly little attention given to what that idiom does. For instance, using the term "bandwagon" as in, "That fool Charmis spoke so often about the need to invade Falmia—a barbaric land filled with men and women who thought nothing of cooking and eating children, he said—that pretty soon many lords and ladies had jumped on the bandwagon."

Certain turns of phrase, certain idioms come so naturally to us, we can occasionally lose track of them. I was reading a preview on Amazon, or maybe it was some book I'd foolishly downloaded onto my Kindle before reading the preview, in which "freak" was used as a verb: "So-and-so began freaking out."

Yeah, right. That's perfectly fine in some genres, but in others it raises my hackles.

 

Just happened upon this thread...

The limitation is not just for fantasy, it's for any anachronistic story. I published a historical novel set in the C11 and had to do heaps of research to see whether concepts or references could be used, including: miasma, chess, alchemy, certain swear words... In just about the last edit I realised I'd referred to a pumpkin, which was unknown in Europe for the best part of another 500 years.