Advice for my new Cultivation Fantasy World, inspired by Indian and Sikh history

[SinghSong]

I've been doing a bunch of independent historical research into my heritage from my dad's side of the family, about the Sikh Misls, Sikh Confederacy, Sikh Empire and cis-Sutlej kingdoms/ 'princely states' from the early 1700's to mid 1800's. Initially, this was primarily for the purpose of writing a realistic alternate history/'AH' 'enduring Sikh Empire' timeline, and being able to answer any accusations of implausibility, overt bias or 'wanking' (of the sort one always tends to get on an AH forum when one writes a successful industrialization/'doing a Meiji' TL about any non-White European nations besides Japan) with hard evidence and factual analysis. And writing that ATL's going pretty well, TBH- I'm enjoying it, and just getting into the 1880's now, c.50yrs after the point of divergence from our own timeline ('POD'), by which stage there have been noticeable alterations to the course of history of practically every nation on earth. Thing is though, I know full well that AH is an increasingly niche genre, with a heavily biased, opinionated and tragically closed-minded readership base; and that there'd still be little-to-no interest in it if I were to publish it.

And having a fair bit of interest in the cultivation/progression fantasy genre, I've began to build upon it, and my extensive knowledge of Sikh & Punjabi history, to start drawing up the outline for a story in a (primarily) Indian-based Spirit Cultivation Fantasy series, wherein the MC's the scion/'young master' of a prominent Jagirdar (with his father being the leader of his own Jatha and of a Rajput clan, subordinate to one of the core Misls of the Confederacy), in the early days of their Empire's unification under its first singular Maharajah/Emperor (based upon Maharajah Ranjit Singh). I'm also planning to incorporate significant kingdom-building/societal uplift fantasy elements in the story, with the MC set to increase his strength through 'cultivating his territories' and the talents therein, along with strategic alliances, as much as via his efforts to keep increasing his own cultivation level.

This setting's relatively low fantasy, certainly by the Cultivation genre's standards- think Wuxia rather than Xianxia, but with attempts made to increase the consequences and impact of cited 'feats' predominantly via hard science (such that things like throwing a punch, kick or object "a million times faster than a normal/mundane person could"- i.e, at 6-19% of the speed of light- should induce the nuclear fusion upon contact of any air molecules in its path, and devastate one's immediate surroundings at least as much as the detonation of a megaton-class thermonuclear warhead, even if the individual throwing it is effectively invulnerable). And reflecting the relatively recent stage of historical, scientific and societal development it's supposed to be emulating (vaguely paralleling/echoing that of our world a mere two centuries ago), I'm also planning on incorporating significant flintlock/steampunk/gaslamp elements; with a magi-tech industrial revolution being in its early stages a couple of continents away, led by the island nation which controls the seas, and whose most powerful corporate entity now either directly or indirectly controls most of the MC's home continent (I'm sure you can work out who these are based upon), fueled primarily by the mining of this world's 'Dragon Veins'.

The existence of which, in this setting, has been a mystery throughout most of history, and still remains so as the story begins- but can be explained (in later books in the series) by virtue of the spirit energy, aka Qi or Prana, of formerly living organisms, getting heavily concentrated and refined via the process of compression and fossilization over millions of years, and thus stockpiled away in the form of fossil fuel deposits. Along with a few other substances like biological limestone, which originates from the compression and fossilization of skeletal fragments; and more heavily compressed organic metamorphic rock versions thereof, like marble and jet (with several of the largest and most prized diamonds on the MC's India-inspired continent having been artificially created by the ascended Gods/Devas of the Vedic Era, and being highly coveted as the most intensely concentrated and potent crystallized sources of prana/Qi in existence. Industrial processing and refinement enables their spirit energy to be actively consumed to the point of exhaustion; but with this method ultimately being a derivative of 'Demonic Cultivation', it's set to entail a fair few nasty consequences, especially as pollution accumulates over time.

Basically hoping that I'll be able to avoid the 'Might Makes Right', 'Mandate of Heaven' and such-like underlying philosophies which one tends to get from using Ancient Chinese history and mythology as one's primary societal template (or, indeed, would if I purely used Ancient Vedic history and mythology as a template- though I still intend to for this setting, just for the deeper, more ancient history of the continent). So what do you reckon? By incorporating and placing equal importance upon the other two of Sikhism's three central pillars ('Kirat Karo' and 'Vandke Chako') rather than just the Spirit Cultivation aspect of 'Naam Japo', would it be plausible for the central cast of MC and secondary protagonists to still have moderately 'progressive' morals and sensibilities, and thus be moderately likable and relatable, without having to rely upon a deus ex-machina like a mind-swap with someone from our own world ( a la 'Beware of Chicken')? Could the basic premise work? And are there any more details about the setting you'd like to know?

 

[pmmg]

All of the anachronisms, asides and /'s are hurting my brain.

would it be plausible for the central cast of MC and secondary protagonists to still have moderately 'progressive' morals and sensibilities, and thus be moderately likable and relatable, without having to rely upon a deus ex-machina like a mind-swap with someone from our own world ( a la 'Beware of Chicken')?

Well...plausible, yes.

I dont know what this would mean to people of that culture. My feeling is, I dont want watered down 'moderately progressive' values to relate to me, they will likely strike me as BS anyway. I want to see the culture in its full aspect--unmoderated if need be.

And are there any more details about the setting you'd like to know?

Not being familiar with Sikh culture, pretty much all of it. But I would want that to come out in the story.

 

[Queshire]

Ooo, a cultivation story.

Hmm, some quick googling tells me that Kirat Karo & Vandke Chako means honest living & sharing with others? Is that connected to the kingdom building aspect then? Like, the proper way to cultivate comes from building up your community & drawing in prana from that while mining the dragon veins is the quick & dirty way of cultivating?

Personally I'm not a fan of aiming for hard science. There's certainly nothing wrong with turning down the numbers involved especially with how high those numbers go in xianxia style stories, but if it was me I would be worried about the hard science getting in the way of what I need to write for the story.

Uhhhhh.... and I'm not sure if this will help for what you're going for, but hey, maybe as some inspiration? Some of the earliest mentions of supernatural powers in daoism (which Xianxia stories tend to be based on) include such things as a butcher whose knife has never needed to be sharpened despite the fact that he's used it for decades because he cuts his meat in accordance with the dao and a man who swims all day in a river without needing to come up for breath because while he swims he goes along with the flow of the dao. So, doesn't necessarily need to be punching good.

 

[Jackarandajam]

Thing is though, I know full well that AH is an increasingly niche genre, with a heavily biased, opinionated and tragically closed-minded readership base; and that there'd still be little-to-no interest in it if I were to publish it.

Get off rddt and write the book, haha.
Several ATs have their own successful shows, that means there is a huge fan base.
Let micro-groups whinge in their little echo chambers, write away. You can ask forgiveness if you want, but whatever you do don't ask permission.

 

[SinghSong]

Ooo, a cultivation story.

Hmm, some quick googling tells me that Kirat Karo & Vandke Chako means honest living & sharing with others? Is that connected to the kingdom building aspect then? Like, the proper way to cultivate comes from building up your community & drawing in prana from that while mining the dragon veins is the quick & dirty way of cultivating?

Not so much the 'proper way', as the way that it worked in this setting to facilitate the establishment of a pluralistic, relatively egalitarian and libertarian federal parliamentarian state in a Cultivation World, and the fairly rapid and effective expansion of its power, in spite of only being governed over by a relatively small minority of the population, after the manner of a (mostly nouveau-riche) aristocratic republic. And it's the way in which the MC decides he wants to pursue things, in spite of the fact that, even in his own society, there are still any number of others who openly espouse such lofty ideals whilst hypocritically doing the opposite, or just ignoring these tenets. With the kingdom-building aspect being more to do with the MC's personal journey, and his own Dharma/Rhta (i.e. 'Dao').

Personally I'm not a fan of aiming for hard science. There's certainly nothing wrong with turning down the numbers involved especially with how high those numbers go in xianxia style stories, but if it was me I would be worried about the hard science getting in the way of what I need to write for the story.

Fair enough, but I wasn't planning on over-complicating stuff too much either- just looking at instances where the real-life repercussions of certain feats (like the aforementioned example) would be a lot more impressive and destructive than they're commonly depicted as being, along with others where it can be used to emphasize the need for control and discipline, and/or for comedic effect. For instance, the fact that metals and fluids behave alike under hyper-velocity impacts with anything moving above Mach 7-8, thus necessitating the use of techniques like increasingly adept Qi reinforcement to avoid simply liquefying anything/one touched at these speeds. A dark comedic example of which would be what A-Train did to Hughie's original GF in the opening scene in S1E1 of Amazon Prime's The Boys; but a lighter comedic example of which could be something like a relatively ignorant cultivator trying to see how fast and high they can leap into the air after reaching a higher tier, only to turn the ground beneath them into quicksand with their single leg standing jump and bury themselves up to their neck in it. Stuff like that.

Uhhhhh.... and I'm not sure if this will help for what you're going for, but hey, maybe as some inspiration? Some of the earliest mentions of supernatural powers in daoism (which Xianxia stories tend to be based on) include such things as a butcher whose knife has never needed to be sharpened despite the fact that he's used it for decades because he cuts his meat in accordance with the dao and a man who swims all day in a river without needing to come up for breath because while he swims he goes along with the flow of the dao. So, doesn't necessarily need to be punching good.

No worries, I've got plenty of inspiration for stuff like that, with stuff like the '64 Siddhis'/Supernatural Powers' to draw upon. Just feel like the full implications of 'punching THAT good' aren't explored enough, and that the absurd numbers tossed around in most cultivation fantasies are, all-too-often, just that- nothing more than numbers, serving no real narrative purpose beyond "my setting's power level>these settings' power level".

 

[SinghSong]

All of the anachronisms, asides and /'s are hurting my brain.

Yeah sorry, my bad. Just wanted to get it out there, and wound up with a fair few stray branches of thought which didn't get trimmed.

Well...plausible, yes.

I dont know what this would mean to people of that culture. My feeling is, I dont want watered down 'moderately progressive' values to relate to me, they will likely strike me as BS anyway. I want to see the culture in its full aspect--unmoderated if need be.

Not planning on watering it down or moderating it too much- there are still going to be a fair bunch of cultural aspects I'm planning to incorporate in the setting which are fairly taboo today (like the absence of a concept of 'childhood', arranged marriage-alliances, polygamy, and historical practices like sati and kuri-mar- the latter of which is basically set to form the basis for legit 'demonic cultivation' via post-mortem cannibalism, as practised by Sects based upon the RL Aghoris and other practitioners of the Shaivite Kapalika tradition). And unlike Ancient China, the RL historical culture of the Sikh Empire, which I'm primarily basing this setting upon, was explicitly multi-cultural, libertarian and pluralistic, with relatively little government intervention and moderation. Except when dealing with the sorts of activities which the general populace paid their Rakhi taxes to their local Sardars to provide them with protection against, like "plunder, theft, enslavement and molestation", of course- and even then, only by those who took their duties seriously.

Not being familiar with Sikh culture, pretty much all of it. But I would want that to come out in the story.

Fair enough. But IMHO, the stories of Sikhism's development into a 'martial faith', from the Akal Sena to the Khalsa Fauj, to the rise and fall of Banda Singh Bahadur, and the subsequent survival and coalescence of the respective Sikh Jathas into the Sikh Misls under the parlimentary system of the Sarbat-e- Khalsa? Did all strike me as being pretty fitting for, and relatively easy to adapt for, the Spirit Cultivation/Progression fantasy genre. With the political situation in the Punjab in the early 1800's, and the Jagirdar system as practiced by the Sikhs in the pre-Colonial era, being perhaps the closest and most recent parallel to that of the Ancient Chinese States' Fengjian system, which gets used as the template for most cultivation fantasy stories. And I just felt like utilizing that.

 

[Incanus]

Apologies--I don't have any advice for the project itself. Until seeing this post, I'd never heard of Cultivation Fantasy before.

I only have advice on how to present this material, and how to ask the questions you want to get to.

What makes this difficult to read is that you seem to put several topics into long sentences that have a labyrinth-like quality. Halfway through a sentence, I forget what the beginning was about, and I have to stop and go back. It doesn't help that I am unfamiliar with most of the historical and religious references. Taken all together, this is difficult to get through.

Maybe try a few short, choppy sentences from time to time.

Again, I apologize for not being more helpful. Good luck on your project!

 

[Queshire]

Yeah, in my experience cultivation stories are still too niche for most users on this site.

I still maintain that a lot of the flaws of Xianxia stories have more to do with the abysmal conditions in which they're produced rather than being an inherent flaw with the genre or types of setting. Imagine being expected to finish and post sometimes multiple chapters in a day, every day. The cliches with Xianxia stories are more than anything easy to write. The cool protagonist surrounded by beautiful woman and does vicious, edgy things to his opponents is a simple way to appeal to the largely teenage boys who read the stories, while the rotating cast of assholes in xianxia society ensures that there's always someone for the protagonist to fight.

Basically, don't think you need tricks to achieve what you're aiming for. Keep what you want in mind, take the time to develop it and it'll be fine.