airships armament

[valiant12]

I'm writing a story which take place in a world with huge airships where gunpowder or other explosives aren't invented.
What kind of weapons can the airships use to attack ground forces or other flying enemies ?
As a air to ground armament the ships can drop boulders.
I'm not sure what weapons the ships would use for air to air combat. How impractical would be to mount a big flamethrowers on a airship. Longbowmen firing volleys of trick arrows ?
Which would be more impractical - a group of mages firing lightnings at the hostile flying creatures or using a flamethrower firing greek fire? What about catapults ? Can you use a catapults as a air to air weapon?

 

[Russ]

Although I don't have the answer to your question directly (I think catapults won't work) but somehow I find this question unspeakably funny:

Which would be more impractical - a group of mages firing lightnings at the hostile flying creatures or using a flamethrower firing greek fire?

 

[johnsonjoshuak]

Without gunpowder, I'd imagine that ballista would be the preferred method of air-to-air combat.

It depends on the design of your airships. If it's more like a zepplin, with a large balloon and small gondola, then catapults would be ineffective. They would require a steep upward arch.

I think flamethrowers would be great short range, but I think that they would pose too much threat to the attacking ship.

Ballistas are long range, fairly accurate and as long as they didn't hit the balloon, could be used to incapacitate a vessel rather than bringing it down. You could even have them on a pivoting mount so that they could be swung out away from the ship and fired downward at ground enemies.

Also depending on the design, harpoons would be common especially for pirates or customs-like vessels. They could be used to grapple the target vessel and pull them for boarding.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Without knowing the nature of your world in terms of magic, I would think most of the weapons mentioned would be too heavy for airships to carry.

My guess is that without gunpowder your best ground attack would be with something like Greek fire - if you can put it in little bags and drop it on troops. As for air to air, longbows complete with flaming arrows. They're light weight and they have range, and in the end to bring your enemy down all you need to do is puta hole in his balloon. Victory to my mind in air to air combat would go to whoever has the best / fastest rising airship. Because if you can gain altitude on the others you can fire down on them. You can't fire upwards because there's a huge bag in the way as well as the burdon of gravity to overcome.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[CupofJoe]

Are we talking Airships like Zeppelins? In WW1 the British found out that they were really hard to bring down unless you tore really large holes in them [and used concentrated tracer fire]. Okay you could hole them but they would slowly motor off and head home before loosing too much height.

 

[DMThaane]

What kind of weapons can the airships use to attack ground forces or other flying enemies ?
As a air to ground armament the ships can drop boulders.

This would actually be very ineffective. Boulders would be heavy, hard to move, terribly inaccurate, and would be unlikely to cause much damage except on the relatively small area they landed on. This would actually be the best place for greek fire, dropping large pots of the substance from high above so that they burst on the forces down below. Who doesn't love the smell of naptha in the morning?

I'm not sure what weapons the ships would use for air to air combat. How impractical would be to mount a big flamethrowers on a airship. Longbowmen firing volleys of trick arrows ?
Which would be more impractical - a group of mages firing lightnings at the hostile flying creatures or using a flamethrower firing greek fire? What about catapults ? Can you use a catapults as a air to air weapon?

I'll echo that's its hard to give advice with little knowledge of the nature of the airships your imagining or the nature of magic in your world but I'll offer some mundane answers.

Historical ship-based fire projectors were big, unwieldy, somewhat prone to failure, and needed to be used at fairly close range. When half your tactics involve ramming they can be quite useful but as an airship vs airship weapon it seems like a recipe for unintended forest fires. Smaller hand-held fire projectors did exist but I mostly only mention them because they're awesome. Extreme anti-boarding weapon maybe?

Catapults would be impractical but different kinds of ballistae can fire bolts, stones, fire pots, or jars full of stinging insects (not even making the last one up) and can generally fire on a flatter trajectory. Smaller scorpions (the Roman bolt-throwing artillery piece) could be used in an anti-personnel role or to target the envelope, if it is vulnerable.

Of course much of this is dependant on the nature of your airships and materials used in construction, as well as the nature of magic in your world. An all-metal airship lifted by the crystallised will of a god and acting as a siege platform for fire mages to rain meteoric death upon all below is a very different beast to a wooden gondola suspended under a fabric envelope with only a few swivel-guns and a daring attitude for protection.

 

[Svrtnsse]

Keep in mind you can have a platform on top of the balloon as well, if you want to.

 

[DMThaane]

Keep in mind you can have a platform on top of the balloon as well, if you want to.

True, although something about top-heavy airships has always seemed wrong to me. Besides, it would be harder to bring the airship in low and broadside a castle wall or secure all pieces and roll the ship to fire at an enemy above, or even below. Plus a platform would be more vulnerable and much harder to armour.

 

[valiant12]

In WW1 the British found out that they were really hard to bring down unless you tore really large holes in them [and used concentrated tracer fire]. Okay you could hole them but they would slowly motor off and head home before loosing too much height.

I remember reading somewhere that during ww1 germans use helium for some of their war zeppelins.

Without knowing the nature of your world in terms of magic, I would think most of the weapons mentioned would be too heavy for airships to carry.

Honestly i just started writing that story and there is no in depth worldbuilding yet.

 

[Svrtnsse]

True, although something about top-heavy airships has always seemed wrong to me. Besides, it would be harder to bring the airship in low and broadside a castle wall or secure all pieces and roll the ship to fire at an enemy above, or even below. Plus a platform would be more vulnerable and much harder to armour.

Details! It'd be cool!
Though in fairness, I was thinking of a main gondola below and a small platform on top. That way you could still keep a low center of gravity.

 

[CupofJoe]

I remember reading somewhere that during ww1 germans use helium for some of their war zeppelins.

I really don't think so, the large "bomber" Zeppelins were definitely Hydrogen filled. I've just read that the first Helium filled airship was the US Navy's C-7 in first flown in 1921 [if Wiki is to be believed...]. I know that Helium is far rarer and more expensive than Hydrogen even today.
As for weapons I could see something like grapeshot or bushels of arrows tearing huge rifts in an Airship as being practical.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

A platform on top of the bag? Might work but two issues. Firstly it'd make filling the balloon with hot air somewhat tricky and you might end up setting fire to it. Second - I wouldn't want to climb the ladder from the gondola around and up the side of the balloon to the top!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Also another issue how do you affix the top platform to the balloon? Ropes wouln't work as well as they would for the gondola which just hangs. I assume nails and screws are out too!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[CupofJoe]

If you are talking Hot air balloons then I think all bets are off. Those things barely stay airborne at the best of times
I've helped fly them and there is a lot of work for about 2 hours of "fun"...
They can't be steered with any accuracy and don't have power to move them [okay you can fix motors to them but it isn't worth it...].
If the wind is too strong, or if it rains, or if it is too hot, or too cold then they don't fly well sometimes they don't fly at all.
They are just one big bag and a burner to heat the air. You could up climb inside the bag but even when you are inflating them you can feel/taste the air is wrong [carbon monoxide and kerosene and probably lots of other lovely things...]. I really would not try it with the thing fully inflated.
Dirigibles [Zeppelins etc. and I've just found out that "Dirigible" comes from being able to steer them...] have different gas bags and an internal structure to give the airship shape. You can climb and walk around the inside with ease. Some Airships of the 30s tried out having small aircraft in hangers within the Airship body.
Blimps don't have a ridging frame but I know that there can be tubes between/through the gas bags letting the crew get to the top of the bag.
Then there are hybrid airships which can be a mix of any two or three types...

 

[Svrtnsse]

Aye, from what I gather dirigibles and hot-air balloons are significantly different. I did a little (very little) but of reading on it when thinking up the principles for airships in my setting.

Like CoJ mentioned, the balloon has (can have?) an internal structure housing several different balloons. The can be compartmented so that even if you're hit and one of them deflates, the other are still intact. You could also have stairwells that run from the top to the bottom straight through the balloon, instead of on the outside. On commercial/recreational vessels this could be used as observation platforms or sun-decks (may need some heating).

In my setting I've used airship technology (supported by magic and handwavium) as an excuse to include high-altitude stations. You could probably think of them as a flying version of a naval aircraft carrier, or maybe an oil rig. They're permanently airborne and supplied with fuel and staff by smaller ships flying back and forth between the ground and the station at regular intervals.
One of my characters does duty on such a place for a bit.

 

[valiant12]

If you are talking Hot air balloons then I think all bets are off. Those things barely stay airborne at the best of times

The airships in my setting use hydrogen as lifting gas. The engines run on petroleum based fuel and some magic charms that improve fuel efficiency.

 

[Saigonnus]

If you are talking Hot air balloons then I think all bets are off. Those things barely stay airborne at the best of times.

I have kind of worldbuilt around a "modern" fantasy setting in which magic IS technology. I have farseeing glasses for communication, shrouds for regional short to medium range transportation, and of course airships for long-range travel...

I had the thought about a dirigible type, with an inner frame. The frame itself is enchanted to control the temperature of the surrounding air inside, but must be operated by a trained mage for the nuances needed to keep the air an optimal temperature, which would vary depending onn altitude.

As far as weaponry goes, I have contemplated "guns" that shoot fireballs instead of bullets/shells. I have also considered something like an EMP, but for magic fields (this would of course make the air in the enemy's canopy slowly cool and drive the enemy airship to the ground below.) other options I thought about was shrouds (portals) that would open up on an enemy's ship for invading it at a distance. Flight charms, gliders could be a way to attack either the ground below or to get to the enemy ship. I suppose your weaponry would be greatly dependent on what technologies and magic is available to your world and its inhabitants.

I also had thoughts of charms that slow a person's velocity if they should fall over the rail during combat. There is more to airships than just weaponry. My airships use farseer charms, so they can see the ground below, or far off into the distance (up to 5 or 6 miles) so they can be used as high-altitude sentries or command/control centers. They are also large enough to house a force of soldiers, so they can be deployed anywhere on the battlefield quickly, especially using the fall charms.

Just a few idea to kick around, feel free to use/discard them as you will.

 

[mecg_romancer]

What about steam fired harpoons etc? Steam creating enough pressure can launch some weird objects :L. Or maybe even big air cannons like those toys which create a blast of air but on a large scale and maybe heated to scorching temperatures? I'm not sure you say your world's not got gunpowder but the ships must have an engine or mage of some sort pushing it along :L I probably missed it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[valiant12]

What about steam fired harpoons etc? Steam creating enough pressure can launch some weird objects :L. Or maybe even big air cannons like those toys which create a blast of air but on a large scale and maybe heated to scorching temperatures? I'm not sure you say your world's not got gunpowder but the ships must have an engine or mage of some sort pushing it along :L I probably missed it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I have mentioned that the ship use petroleum based fuel. Older smaller designs use sails.