Allusions and References

[Garren Jacobsen]

Recently I finished the Eragon series and as I got to the end of book four I noticed a very very very blatant Dr. Who reference. It is at the end when Angela is knitting something and she says the symbol comes from Raxacori and fails to finish the quote. It took me completely out of the story and I wanted to throw the book more so than I did before. However, it did get me thinking about references and allusions in my own novels. In fact one set in the near-distant future may have a direct Harry Potter reference when a normal human figures out that magic people have their own secret culture in his country. I still want to make the reference, because it will help to break up a pretty tense scene, but I am wondering if it will kill my story. I have my own thoughts on why my reference wouldn't do what the Dr. Who in Inheirtance did to me but I want to hear what you think.

 

[Braveface]

Depends.

A nod that is a 'coincidence' won't detract from the story but it should be relevant to your own. Maybe a little signpost from something in the same genre or sub-genre? If the reference brings extra complication to your own universe it might not be worth it. But I find them fun often if done tactfully.

 

[Steerpike]

I don't think it will hurt the story when the characters have a frame of reference for an overt reference. If they don't, a more subtle reference that is sort of a game between author and reader can work, but I think a direct reference would fail (with the possible exception of if you are writing a humorous work).

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

The joke I intend to make is from a non-magical person to a magic one that will likely make a blithe reference to quiditch. The character after discovering a whole magical world, and non-magic surveillance of said world, will say something like, "So what they send their kids to some enchanted castle and try to catch some flying golden ball?" I haven't quite worked out exactly what he'll say but he will. I think in context of him being on Earth post Harry Potter would make sense since it's now effectively party of the culture. But who knows.

 

[Steerpike]

Makes sense. Since Potter is part of their culture, it wouldn't bother me at all, as a reader, to come across a reference to it.

 

[SM-Dreamer]

If you're making a reference/allusion to something that the people in your world could reasonably be familiar with, than it wouldn't be jarring. But in an altnerate fantasy world like the Eragon books, blatant references to our world and it's pop culture shouldn't be there. It's out of place.

 

[Braveface]

The 'whole magical world and non-magical surveillance of said world' makes it sound like this borders on fanfiction.

If that's a plot within itself, which it ought to be, and the magic discovered is of the potteresque variety.

I think with Potter, the reference would need to be very subtle. Maybe they discover one of the other schools from the fourth book...like Durmstrang. There are way more geeky fans of those books than many others who might balk at an obvious reference. Or maybe not, but should the casual fan be able to get references or should they always be obscure?

 

[A. E. Lowan]

The 'whole magical world and non-magical surveillance of said world' makes it sound like this borders on fanfiction.

If that's a plot within itself, which it ought to be, and the magic discovered is of the potteresque variety.

I think with Potter, the reference would need to be very subtle. Maybe they discover one of the other schools from the fourth book...like Durmstrang. There are way more geeky fans of those books than many others who might balk at an obvious reference. Or maybe not, but should the casual fan be able to get references or should they always be obscure?

I don't think the OP is saying his characters are spying on Hogwarts - or at least that's the reading I came away with. But it is pretty common in today's culture to make pop-culture references with a fair degree of frequency - and within an urban fantasy world this is no exception. We have a quote which we will be using in the 4th book of our urban fantasy series, where a character who has just discovered the preternatural world says, "This whole 'magic is real' thing isn't like stepping through the closet door and finding yourself in Narnia. It's like stepping out your front door and realizing you've been in Narnia the whole time." Now, she's not talking about Narnia being a real place, and we certainly won't be going there - it's a pop-culture reference.

 

[Steerpike]

Yeah, the idea of magical people having their own hidden society within the 'real' world won't make it fanfic. That shows up in many novels, and is a staple of Urban Fantasy.

 

[Braveface]

Oh, I feel kind of dumb. My bad.

In fact one set in the near-distant future may have a direct Harry Potter reference when a normal human figures out that magic people have their own secret culture in his country.

That wrongly read that line as them discovering the Harry Potter universe.

 

[Steerpike]

Oh, I feel kind of dumb. My bad.

That wrongly read that line as them discovering the Harry Potter universe.

No problem. Reading it that way, I think you'd be right

 

[Bansidhe]

The joke I intend to make is from a non-magical person to a magic one that will likely make a blithe reference to quiditch. The character after discovering a whole magical world, and non-magic surveillance of said world, will say something like, "So what they send their kids to some enchanted castle and try to catch some flying golden ball?" I haven't quite worked out exactly what he'll say but he will. I think in context of him being on Earth post Harry Potter would make sense since it's now effectively party of the culture. But who knows.

This sort of reference should work since it's not an anachronism or "breaking the third wall"--in fact, you may end up scoring brownie points with your readers by voicing exactly what they're thinking--and thus investing them further in your characters and the scene.

Hope this helps!

 

[Svrtnsse]

One thing I did for a bit was throw in references to songs I like. I enjoyed it and thought it fun, but I've since stopped. Putting in a song title and the name of a band where other such things weren't mentioned didn't work out at all. It pulled attention to the song/band as an obvious reference, and also one the reader didn't get.

As has been said before in this thread. Use references where they make sense.
If you're describing an alternate version of the real world where people may have read HP or LOTR then referencing them should be fine.
If, like in my case, you're using the stock fantasy races (including hobbit knock-offs) in a completely separate world it wouldn't make sense to joke about going on an expedition to toss rings in volcanoes.

 

[Malik]

I have a scene in which the MC's, from Earth, first meet the Faerie. They're in a beautiful glen in what they think is a raging party but it's just how the Faerie roll, and the Faerie are handing them drinks and kissing them hello and taking their packs off and undoing their armor, beckoning them over to the fires to relax and drink. (They did a great service for the Faerie and were invited here to rest before going out again.)

"Can we just stay here until the war's over?" one of my MC's asks the other.

The other, being led away by a throng of Faerie women, says, "No, it's too perilous."

I use it because they're from Earth, they're both medieval nerds, and it's exactly what someone like them, in their situation, would say.

EDIT: For younger or dimmer readers who may not get the hat-tip to Monty Python, it still reads sarcastic and in line with that character's persona, because it's exactly the least perilous place either of them have been in weeks.

 

[Sheilawisz]

There is nothing wrong with having allusions and references to other stories within your story, it's normal and that can be a lot of fun.

I have featured some allusions like that in my Joan of England trilogy, which is set in a parallel Earth that shows a few particular and curious differences to our Earth. The main character is sometimes seen reading books called Halley Wolffer, Sunset and The Raphael Code, and I even describe the cover art of those books =)

They also have a TV news channel called ZNN, they attended the Vancouver 2010 Winter Games (they are not called olympics) and there is a dangerous sporting competition called The Z Games.