Ask me about Medieval England - Especially Christianity and Books

[artisticrainey]

Hope this is okay to post...

I studied a master's degree in Medieval Literature (specifically between 1350 and 1500) with a focus on hagiography (saint's lives), and my dissertation was a transcription of a treatise on the Seven Deadly Sins. If you have any questions about Medieval Christianity/piety/heresy/something related I might be able to help you.

I also specialised in codicology and paleography -- studying books as objects and study of ancient handwriting respectively. If you have questions about Medieval books (Who wrote them? Where did the material come from? Why were they written? What materials were used? etc.) and medieval handwriting (what's the difference between anglicana and secretary?) please ask. I might not be able to give a massively complex answer, but I can certainly try and illuminate your way (little manuscript joke there, haha - I am a nerd).

I'll also answer any other questions about Medieval life and culture as best I can. However, I know very little about Medival warfare/armour/swordplay/jousting etc. so I probably can't help you with those topics.

 

[squishybug87]

I'll keep that in mind

I'll be basing one of the civilizations in my universe off of Medieval England, but I haven't gotten to planning that one yet.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Hello Artisticrainey, and Welcome to Mythic Scribes!!

Maybe you don't have much information about the life and death of Princess Joan of England, daughter of Edward III and Philippa of Hainault... but if you know anything about her that is not widely known in the Internet, I would be delighted to hear about it.

Any new information could help me with my Joan of England Fantasy series =)

 

[artisticrainey]

I'll keep that in mind

I'll be basing one of the civilizations in my universe off of Medieval England, but I haven't gotten to planning that one yet.

Well, if you ever have any questions, I'll do my best to answer if I can.

Hello Artisticrainey, and Welcome to Mythic Scribes!!

Maybe you don't have much information about the life and death of Princess Joan of England, daughter of Edward III and Philippa of Hainault... but if you know anything about her that is not widely known in the Internet, I would be delighted to hear about it.

I'm sorry to say that I don't, but if I come across anything I'll let you know. I think because she died so young (even in Medeival terms) there wasn't much of a chance of writing much about her -- which is compounded by the fact that most writings haven't survived.

Any new information could help me with my Joan of England Fantasy series =)

Now that sounds right up my street! I wish I could help even more now!

 

[Sheilawisz]

Thank you Artisticrainey, I think that I have a few questions for you now:

What were the beds like in 14th century England, especially the beds of the richest people?? What were they made of?

What about their mirrors?

 

[artisticrainey]

What were the beds like in 14th century England, especially the beds of the richest people?? What were they made of?

The very, very richest IE: the king and the Archbishop of Canterbury, their nearest and dearest and anyone who visits them and is of sufficient rank/importance would have a very large four poster bed with enclosing curtains. The mattress and pillows would be stuffed with feathers (usually down). There would be fine linen sheets on the beds and woollen blankets. On top would be a brightly coloured bedspread as a way to make the guest feel comfortable, and also a way to show off your wealth even more.

Don't forget, though, that even in the richest of people are still subject to bed bug infestations.

What about their mirrors?

Mirrors are a little more complicated. Mirrors as we see them now didn't really exist until the 16th Century. Most mirrors in Medieval times were more likely to be panels or disks of metal (usually bronze or silver) polished to an extrememly high sheen. The very richest could probably have afforded a slightly more modern mirror (glass with a metallic backing). Most mirrors were the hand-held kind. Full-length mirrors didn't come into fashion for a few centuries. Mirrors weren't used much for decoration, and their cost was very high indeed.

 

[Sheilawisz]

Thank you Artisticrainey, this information about Medieval beds for the richest families is very interesting- You really have a great knowledge about Medieval life!! I will think of more questions for you, this thread has a great potential to be useful for many Mythic Scribes members =)

 

[artisticrainey]

You're welcome! The knowledge all comes from books and journals that I've read so I have to thank them! Sadly I'm not a researcher myself anymore, but the skills never leave you and it can be easy enough to find info when you know where to look

 

[Zokoke]

Hi artisticrainey. Going along with beds, what would a commoner sleep on? Would multiple people sleep on one bed or would there be multiple beds? Also, how would beds be stored when not in use? Was there privacy? If it helps, I'm looking at medieval Ireland in a Crannog style house.

 

[Jess A]

Hi there,

This thread will be very useful. I will bookmark it. My story is based on more of a Renaissance culture, but I still look into medieval culture as well. I have invented religions, so the religion studies will be of use.

Can you detail the structure of the Church in that period? So from top to bottom, ranks, what they did etc?

And can you tell me anything about the burning of heretics, what they did, ceremonies involved in the burning of witches and heretics (or how they were tortured for questioning?). What a morbid topic!

 

[Butterfly]

Hi there,

And can you tell me anything about the burning of heretics, what they did, ceremonies involved in the burning of witches and heretics (or how they were tortured for questioning?). What a morbid topic!

Look at Matthew Hopkins The Witchfinder General - The most prolific witch hunter, executioner and torturer of witches in the 1600?s - BBC - Legacies - Myths and Legends - England - Essex - Witch-finder witch? - Article Page 1

- Matthew Hopkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -

Mathew Hopkins -

They made a film about him - Witchfinder General - pretty old, not brill. But I suppose one source for you.

 

[artisticrainey]

Hi artisticrainey. Going along with beds, what would a commoner sleep on? Would multiple people sleep on one bed or would there be multiple beds? Also, how would beds be stored when not in use? Was there privacy? If it helps, I'm looking at medieval Ireland in a Crannog style house.

Hi there,

Crannogs are quite ancient dwellings, and I think in Medieval Ireland there would not have been many still in use. It would have been rare, rather than the norm.

In any case, as crannogs were large, communal areas with few partitioned areas, people would have slept in the same large area. Logic would dictate that they would try to cluster close to the fire in the middle, with the most important people being closer than those of lesser importance. Bedding would have been made of straw and temporary rather than permanent wooden structures in the terms of beds as we recognise them.

Hope that helps

 

[artisticrainey]

Can you detail the structure of the Church in that period? So from top to bottom, ranks, what they did etc?

Which church are you talking about? The only church I have any knowledge of is Medieval Christianity, so I hope it is in some way useful. Also, the church and its hierarchy did change depending on the part of the Middle Ages you're talking about. I'm going to focus on the Later Middle Ages (1300-1500 approximately).

At the top of the hierarchy there was of course the Pope. The Pope served a similar function in terms of religion as he does now, but also wielded a vast amount of power over Christian rulers. In fact, quite often the kings of Western Europe petitioned the Pope for permission to declare war and were frequently excommunicated for disobeying the ruling of the Pope. There has generally only been one Pope, apart from a period between 1378 and 1415 called the 'Great Schism' where there were in fact two popes, one ruling from Rome and one from Avignon.

Below the Pope would have come the Cardinals, generally appointed by him. I'm not hugely familiar with the inner workings of the higher levels until we get to the Archbishops. Archbishops were also usually appointed by the Pope, and there were many disagreements between the Pope and ruling kings, for the kings wanted the right to appoint their own Archbishops (a French pope, for example, might appoint a Frenchman as Archbishop of Canterbury, but it would be unlikely that the English king would favour this and would rather appoint his own, loyal Englishman). Archbishops were advisors to the king, and also acted as conduits for transferring information to and from the Royal See.

Below this came bishops, who had jurisdiction over a variety of parishes and in theory were supposed to make sure the priests of the parishes were doing their jobs. However, to think that they were very holy men who ruled with an iron rod would be a misconception. Many bishops had their fingers in a number of businesses, including the running (and visiting) of brothels.

Priests were at the centre of the parishes, and were often the younger sons of lords (not necessarily important lords) who needed an income because all the land would go to the oldest son (this was not always the case, but generally the rule). Thus, while priests did conduct masses and other religious services/sacraments, they were not always very holy and many were in fact just doing it for an income. The main language of the Church was Latin, but some priests could not read, write or speak it very well.

The Middle Ages also saw the proliferation of many Holy Orders, one such being the Order of Preachers or the Black Friars (now commonly known as the Dominican Order). They were called the Black Friars because of the black cloaks they wore over their white habits. These friars would preach against heresy and try to spread the teachings of their particular order.

There were also members of the clergy that were enclosed - that lived within the confines of their monastery and did not often venture outside. These were based on the Rule of St Benedict, who wrote that monks should live a simple, impoverished life, eating only simple food and spending ample time in prayer. However, monks were excellent at bending the rules and often justified a far more lavish lifestyle. Monasteries often owned vast amounts of land, produced a lot of food of their own, and had monoplies on mills and baking-ovens. Monks also generated a lot of wealth by being paid to pray for the souls of others. A knight, back from fighting for the King, might have killed many people. Now killing, even for the king, was still prohibited in the Ten Commandments. He might be given a huge amount of prayer to cleanse his soul - but if he farmed it out to ten monks praying constantly for a year, he would be absolved a hell of a lot more quickly.

In this way, prayer gained currency. The more humble and simple a monk's life, the more people wanted to pay him as he would be seen as a good conduit for prayer. However, the more money he got, the less humble and simple his life became, and the monasteries became very rich indeed, and not very holy. That's when people started turning to cloistered nuns as a preferred method.

Another interesting fact would be that often, Bishops took up arms and went into battle. Apart from that, I don't know how much more I can tell you.

And can you tell me anything about the burning of heretics, what they did, ceremonies involved in the burning of witches and heretics (or how they were tortured for questioning?). What a morbid topic!

Oh, God. I hate the burning of heretics debate. Yes, people were burned as heretics, but not as often as you might think. In fact, you could only actually be properly called a heretic if you admitted it yourself. If you didn't actually admit, 'yes I am a heretic' then you weren't technically speaking a heretic. You were just accused of it.

There were not as many people burned at the stake as popular media would have you believe. As for special ceremonies, as far as I'm aware there aren't any. You went to a field, built a big wood pile with a stake in it and tied the person to it. Then it was lit, probably with some prayers and condemnations given by a priest or friar. Sometimes family members would bring along other fuel to help the fire burn faster and kill the person quicker, such as the carcass of a pig, but too often these just turned into bombs made of fat and exploded, causing the person even more agony. The skin and fat would start to melt and burn off, but the cause of death was usually asphyxiation.

One common method for determining if someone was a witch or not was called Trial by Ordeal. This took the form of throwing the accused into a body of water. If they floated, they were a witch. If they sank, they weren't. However. 'witch hunts' didn't really come about until the 1700s, not really in the Middle Ages.

And in case anyone is starting to furiously bang your fingers on the keyboard to tell me how very wrong I am about heretics, save your breath. I am really not interested in getting into a conversation about it. These are my views, based on literature and history that I have studied. I might be wrong and I might be underestimating - that's fine. But I am not open for debate at this time.

 

[Phietadix]

Now killing, even for the king, was still prohibited in the Ten Commandments.

That doesn't sound right. The ten commandments say 'do not murder' not 'do not kill'. Killing enemy soidiers in a war isn't murder.

 

[artisticrainey]

That doesn't sound right. The ten commandments say 'do not murder' not 'do not kill'. Killing enemy soidiers in a war isn't murder.

The translation is usually interpreted as kill, rather than murder. Regardless of what the "true" translation is, the king still had to do penance. I think you're putting a very modern slant on the kill/murder idea. A lot of the killing was done in the name of religion (Crusades etc) but it was still considered morally wrong. There was just a convenient get-out clause that you could pray away your sins after the fact - the Sacrament of Penance.

 

[Steerpike]

I don't think it is a modern slant. I was once told by a rabbi that it translates to "murder" in the original Hebrew text, and that the distinction is quite clear based on the choice of words. I've heard the same thing from a friend I had in Seminary school. It makes sense, at any rate.

 

[artisticrainey]

I don't think it is a modern slant. I was once told by a rabbi that it translates to "murder" in the original Hebrew text, and that the distinction is quite clear based on the choice of words. I've heard the same thing from a friend I had in Seminary school. It makes sense, at any rate.

By modern slant I meant the "is killing in war murder" argument, rather than the translation itself. I'm no translator, so I can't vouch for the words and their interpretation and I won't try. However, the view of killing in the Middle Ages wasn't as tied up in morality as it can be now. Even during a time of war or Crusade, the person still had to do penance for their sins.

 

[Steerpike]

By modern slant I meant the "is killing in war murder" arguement, rather than the translation itself. I'm no translator, so I can't vouch for the words and their interpretation and I won't try. However, the view of killing in the Middle Ages wasn't as tied up in morality as it can be now. Even during a time of war or Crusade, the person still had to do penance for their sins.

Ah, I see what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[artisticrainey]

No problem, I should have been clearer in the first place. I can see where the confusion came from.

 

[Shockley]

*Raises hand*

I'm a translator.

Granted, you don't need to be a translator in order to understand the distinction between killing and murder as it existed at this time. Bluntly said, the act of going on crusade and the eradication of heretics was, at this time, considered an indulgence by the Catholic church. You don't, as a matter of definition, do penances for indulgences.

That said, kings did have to do pennance for out and out murder especially if the person had connections. Look at the mess surrounding Thomas Becket.