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Avoiding agender pronouns.

So here's the deal. My story features a certain someone who's female (biologically) but who looks amorphous. It is impossible to tell if "she" is man or a woman. She wears male clothes but is very lithe in shape, with a "wiry" musculature that doesn't really point to either gender. Her face is covered in tattoos, making it even harder to label her. Now, she's part of this merry band of government sanctioned cutthroats. None of 'em have really asked her about it, as they don't really care (that and she's rather intimidating). One of them claims to have seen her womanly parts once, while she was bathing, so they just use female pronouns.

Thing is, this character, as an individual does not really believe in (binary genders). She doesn't really care about that sort of "conformism". She doesn't give a damn about all those labels. She doesn't care if her associates use female pronouns or not. So clearly, she's agender. She does not conform or associate herself with one of the binary genders out there - nor does she really see herself as a composite of those. She just ignores the concept of gender altogether.

Now the problem is that when I'm writing about her, I don't really want to use gender-neutral pronouns. I just don't like the whole "xir/hir" thing. I'm more than happy to use them in conversation, if that makes someone more comfortable. But they're not real words and I feel like they'd look kind of silly in a novel. It's not like I'd have to use them that often, only when I'm describing something she does.

Now, I was thinking I'd just use she/her since the group does label her as female (it's a medieval world, they think in binary genders), but I don't want to anger/insult agender people. My reasoning is that the story is written from the (3rd person) perspective of one of these characters who does label her female, and that that should justify the use of the female pronoun.

Any thoughts?
 

Gryphos

Auror
If the story is written from the perspective of someone who believes she is female, then it would be rather strange to call her anything other than 'she', so I don't see any problem.
 

coryldork

New Member
You contradict yourself here by saying your character doesn't believe in non-binary genders, and then by saying your character doesn't care about gender. Those are two different statements... Not believing in binary genders means they don't believe that there are only male and female. But saying they don't believe in gender means that they don't believe in gender.

As someone who knows numerous trans and non-binary people, pronouns are important. They aren't something to be brushed off, even if someone is non-binary and "doesn't care about gender."

You're also already gendering her by referring to her as "her."

You could make the gender ambiguous by having people say "he" "she" or their name. If you want to make your character look androgynous (that's the word you want; not "amorphous" which implies they have no form whatsoever and are an ever-changing blob of human) and not believe in gender, but decide to reference them with only female pronouns, you're only going to confuse your readers. By having an agender character, you need to make sure people know they are agender, otherwise having them agender instead of being a masculine woman or an androgynous woman will mean nothing. Why does your character need to be agender? For representation? Then you shouldn't go halfway.

You know what a gender-neutral pronoun is that is actually grammatically correct most of the time?
"they"
I know there's a ton of controversy around it and whether it should be used strictly for plurals, but if you pay attention, it's used so heavily in the singular form. You could also use a word from another language, depending on where your (I'm assuming fantasy) world draws inspiration. Also, please please please don't brush aside "xir" and alternate pronouns as "not real words," especially if you're writing fantasy. If you're making up a world that has magic, magical creatures, impossible circumstances, but refuse to allow alternate pronouns into the world, you're refusing to be inclusive.

I'm sorry if this post is long or if I come off very blunt, but this topic--issue, I should say--of gender and pronouns is very close to me.

EDIT: You could look to Native stories and their "trickster" figures, which are agender, but referred to as "he" "she" and "it" or just by their title (Coyote, Raven, etc.) If you think readers will be confused by the switch between "he" and "she" while referring to your character, they likely won't be as long as it's clear who is being talked about.
 

Jabrosky

Banned
If she's female biologically and doesn't actually care whether her associates address her with female pronouns, I would simply stick to female pronouns if I were you.

The only time I have ever considered this kind of gender pronoun issue, or even gender identity politics at all, is when I was designing a species of hermaphroditic aliens. Even then, I ended up scrapping the idea since the aliens were conceived as a satire of tumblr trolls, which didn't go over very well with people invested in diversity issues.
 

SeverinR

Vala
Reminds me of SNL's Pat. You never found out if Pat was male or female. The other characters always thought of questions to ask they thought would answer the question, but never did figure it out.

But if the reader knows then use the proper one. Otherwise keeping it a secret would be very difficult. Flipping back and forth would be confusing.
She can refuse to be addressed by sexuality, but I would refer to her with feminine pronouns.


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Same problem but gender confusion, do you use the biological label or the label they feel they are? Again which ever label assigned would have to be used through out the book or until a permanent change is secured.
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What about personality transfers? A man switches places with a woman, ie a man in a womans body, and a woman in a males body by magic or curse? Probably stick to original birth labels.
 
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You could perhaps have the characters - the world at large - label her as female, and have her explicitly note her views, thoughts and identity at some point. Including a character who doesn't necessarily think of herself the way the world sees her is powerful in and of itself, and I encourage you to keep that complexity in. There are plenty of people who feel that way, and having confirmation on the page can help.
 

ascanius

Inkling
Here are my thoughts. First this sounds incredibly confusing in application with the way you want it. I suggest keeping it simple, maybe explain a few things at the begining choose a pronoun and stick with it. Another thing to think about is how readers are going to translate xir, after looking it up if they do, in their minds. My guess is most people are going to simply choose male or female associations or 'it'. Something to think about.

Second. Unless you have a very good explanation as to why your MC has such progressive modern ideas in a medieval setting while others don't it sounds more like a social commentary or satire than a story, both of which are valid. I think if your going to go your route it is important to establish that the MC is not the only character who has/understands/knows about this viewpoint regardless their beliefs.

Edit: take the above with a grain of salt. While I think the above points valid I base them only off the op's post and the information given, based off that I wouldn't be interested in reading the story until I knew more details. Basically I'm biased and don't want you to change what could be a good book because of that.
 
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