Dragons: Rawr!

[AlexanderKira]

Yes, the biggest cliche now in the world of fantasy...Dragons. Though some writers can manage to pull it off, Martin, Rothfuss, Paolini(God knows why), but many can call it the biggest cliche in fantasy. I have a question, because I have been pondering or whether or not to add them to my story.

In almost every Dragon story I have read, not many, the story takes place AFTER the Dragons. They're always extinct, except for one of course, they always wait and choose one particular person, they're things of legend. So I was thinking, why not write a story where Dragons are as common as cows. They've always been there, and people expect them to always be there, then some big plot twist! It's just formulating in my head right now, whattya think?

 

[TWErvin2]

I don't know if dragons are cliche or not. I've included them in my fantasy works (Flank Hawk and recently released Blood Sword). In my novels, they're normally encountered as serpent steeds. They're not the super intelligent, speaking and spell-casting beasts of legend, but they're formidable--fire, teeth, claws and make them so. In my world, they're somewhat rare (except for the elite serpent cavalry), and certainly not common as cows.

Another member here (Map the Dragon), his novel (Firesoul) has a dragon in it. Dragons are not common in his world either, and the dragon in his novel is one of a cadre of characters--the dragon is intelligent and sarcastic, self-important, and pretty darn tough.

With those examples of writers here, I'd say you're safe to including dragons in your story. Just a few questions:
What part do they play in your world--and do they fit?
What part will they play in the story--and do they fit?
Will they add to the storyline or be a sideline, or a distraction?

Whatever you decide, hope it works out. For my two cents, dragons will always have a place in fantasy--not in every world, or story, or tale, but never extinct from all future literary works.

 

[OblivionJones]

I've always felt that, in stories in which dragons are very rare, the dragons in question serve the purpose of the mythical giants that once walked the earth. They're the remnants of a much more savage and magical age. Sometimes they're survivors of a pre-human time or a time when humans were less precocious than they are in the current timeline. Often, though, I've found this to be a sound method of using dragons simply because of the power the typical fantasy dragon holds. Be it Smaug with his nose for Hobbits and great treasure horde or the thousand-year-old wise old lizard that knows the thing the hero needs, dragons have typically been powerful and hyper-intelligent. Hell, even in the very first Dungeons and Dragons monster manuals many of the dragons are listed as being incredibly intelligent by virtue of their advanced age.

Having too many of them in a story makes them the absolute apex predator, or one of them, in terms of both numbers as well as raw potential power in various categories. It makes you have to make an excuse why these creatures aren't ruling the world, to oversimplify vastly a complicated statement. If people always expect dragons, you have to figure out in which capacity they expect them. Can dragons be easily killed? Do they rule humanity as reptilian overlords? Are they, somehow, against all reasonable odds, on amicable terms with humans?

I agree with TWErvin2, though, on dragons always having a place in fantasy. They sure as hell had a place in the mythos of the vast majority of human cultures, why not in our fiction? I've read books where dragons were less intelligent, less powerful and found that to be almost insulting. I don't think I could ever put dragons on the level of the baddie to be dogged out by the sword-wielding hero/heroine.

 

[AlexanderKira]

You both have proven my point, by explaining that in the stories you have both read they are super powerful, intelligent, and mystical creatures. It happens all the time, almost every story I have read has Dragons where they were so powerful that they had to destroy the evil, or something like that. I was just thinking that what if in a world, Dragons were domesticated, like pigs, sheep, cows, etc. People relied on them, much as dragons relied on their masters. Sure a child would still get mystified at a giant snake with wings, but the adults who are used to them act as such.

My point is, people find Dragons so amazing and fantastical. Well I could do the same with pigs, I could make them extinct and them bring them back, an animal that people have never seen, then people would react to them the same they would to dragons they had never seen.

If I read a story with Elves, dwarves, orcs, etc, then I consider it to be somewhat cliche, adding dragons is the same. For holy sake, why not use Griffins? Those are also part of mythology, but they are never used as much as dragons.

The story is fleshed out yet, just a random idea.

 

[SeverinR]

The only problem with lots of dragons, is food supply.
Dragons are usually a large reptile, anything large needs alot of food.
So if you have a dozen dragons, you will need a dozen brontosaurus(or whatever the large herbavores are called now) daily or every other day, 2 dozen cows or equivalent, or an over abundance of small prey to feed them. This would deplete a territory quickly if to many dragons lived in one area.

My kingdom has 10 dragon teams to guard Capital city, with a total dragon force of 30-40 dragon teams for the country, smaller countries might have a couple if any at all. Not all dragons are in service to the kingdom, so there are more dragons to deal with.

Dealing with the basic problems of feeding them, keeping them from taking over(destroying) the world, also if dragons are common, then humans would know how to fight them off, or kill them better then if they were believed to be extinct.

Another possible story, territory over run by dragon food(cows, deer, etc) brings a over population of dragons, but then the food grows scarce, what will the dragons do?

 

[Sheilawisz]

In the main world of my series there are dragons, but they are not super intelligent and talking mystical creatures!! They are just wild beasts living in remote regions and sometimes seen flying in the sky, and the cities of common people have adopted heavy artillery as a mean to fight off dragons when they try to attack =)

They are not important for the story at all, just like... background creatures

Now, I have other kind of snake-like "dragons" that are intelligent and talking, but those are actually magical creatures created by the mages and used as their pets and minions to carry out missions and stuff... they are not really intelligent, and not so powerful after all- it takes thousands of them to fight just a few mages!!

Almost every fan of Fantasy will like dragons =) Why don't you include them in your story, but giving them a different name and creating a species of dragon that is unique and never seen before??

 

[lawrence]

Dragons have appeal, and still have a part to play in Fantasy, as fellow scribes have said. Buy yes, I agree that bringing in a different angle would be good. I recall reading about the Balrogs of Tolkien's 1st Age wars. They were immense malevolent creatures, much like dragons, but very intriguing and exciting to read about. Creating a new beast with similar elements as the 'industry standard' dragon could be a way. But even better would be an idea that gives your story a striking new angle.

 

[Phoenix]

Ha! Look at the symbol next to mythic scribes. Perfect example of how dragons have impacted fantasy. But wasn't one of the first creative fantasy about dragons?

 

[AlexanderKira]

Pheonix, because one person put a dragon on a symbol for a site, doesn't mean it impacted everyone. What fantasy are you talking about with dragons?

 

[Phoenix]

Oh, I'm sorry did I say that impacted everyone? I was just pointing out that this site had a dragon as its icon. If I knew that I would have posted in previous comment. Notice the question mark?

 

[AlexanderKira]

If you were just pointing out that the site had an icon, why wouldn't you just say that specifically instead of saying it impacted fantasy as a general, like you did. If you don't know what you're talking about, then why post about it?

 

[Phoenix]

Okay so I shouldn't ask questions? So I should remain ignorant in my understandings? Also you posted asking a question. You don't know my answer so why are posting about something you don't know about (double negative in da face!) It was just a quick reply to this pointing out something very minor about this website regarding the website. I thought we were have an ineluctable chat with people. I guess I misjudged and didn't clarify. But you can't say it has not affected this website, a dragon appears above every time.

 

[Phoenix]

(Should have review above statement before posting)

 

[AlexanderKira]

Never did I say that you shouldn't ask questions. I did post asking a question, congratulations for pointing out the obvious. I shouldn't be expected to know the answer to your question, when you do not even know the answer yourself. That would be like me not having a girlfriend, then laughing at you for not having one, it holds no relevant sense.

P.S. I can tell you have much to learn through questions since you started a sentence off with a conjunction.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh, I'm so very sorry for not writing with proper grammar and spelling skills on a forum. Anyways, Mr.Specific I didn't point you out of a crowd to answer my question. It was a general question. I didn't expect for you to have the answer. If you knew great, if not that's fine too. I was hoping someone would answer for me, but it didn't have to be you. Really this a childish debate. If all you do is go over your forum postings and try challenging someone over something so small you need to get a life. Anyways I'm going to work on my novel for a little bit. I'm done playing your games. Have fun playing with pieces that won't move!

 

[AlexanderKira]

Thank you for the win, since you obviously just dropped the "debate" because you didn't reply. Well, I would expect proper spelling and grammar if its on a fantasy WRITING site, where you're supposed to WRITE. Yes, but it felt easy to pick on your answer. What's really childish is realizing you can't win so you quit. Actually if this was a chess match(to which I believe you are referring) then if my opponent didn't move his pieces, I would win..

 

[AlexanderKira]

I call checkmate

 

[Devor]

What is going on here . . . ?

I think it's obviously true that dragons have had a tremendous impact on the fantasy genre which cannot easily be overstated, and I think the tremendous awe of the dragon is why they have been utilized and explored to the point of cliche. But of themselves, they are not cliche. They are classic, as are elves and dwarves and wizards and a great pantheon of gods. They are a part of the real history and tradition of the fantastic tale and will never properly disappear.

I will add, it means something to a writer to have a cache of familiar elements to draw upon. The epic moments should come from the story and the art, and having too many original elements can clog up the writing. It's best to save the originality for the pieces which are most important to the story.

 

[Devor]

I call checkmate

Checkmate . . . ? His post held a valid point and a reasonable effort to build the discussion, why would you want to put him down just because you disagree? I think this is a community of fantasy writers and not a forum for hating on each other.

 

[AlexanderKira]

I didn't say that dragons didn't have an impact, as I recall I was stating that I hate how they have made a huge impact.