Dreams and Nightmares

[Butterfly]

So it seems I need to a dream sequence about 2/3 of the way through my WIP. What I'm a little concerned about is the fact that it's a nightmare, but is more than simply a dream and there are a lot of negative opinions out there on the use of dreams within a novel. Basically... it's because it's a dream that isn't real, and the knowledge that what is happening in it isn't really happening on a physical level... meaning there is no real danger of any harm being done.

Now my issue...

I have one character, who is wounded and currently in a fevering coma. It’s been previously mentioned that he has suffered some amount of nightmares throughout his life, and sleeps with light, such as a candle burning above his bed which works to keep them away. The light beats them back and controls them, so to speak. At the basic level, they are an affliction of his... curse.

Up until now they have only been mentioned, but now with the fever he has no control over them, and they come through vividly. But, they are more than simply nightmares. They’re a glimpse of hell (not in the real world sense) and a glimpse of his fate should he fail and fall to the enemy. It is, in many ways, a promise of the darkness to come... so I think it's a pretty solid reason to use it. But...

It's an entire chapter, around 2,300 words set inside the nightmare. It is the only one in the entire book... (I think)

So, I am having a few reservations over using a dreamscape scenario... so from what I’ve said, should I use it or not? (I'm looking to be convinced of the pros and cons of it in one direction or another).

And, what are your opinions on reading / writing a character's dreams in general?

(Something extra How to Write a Realistic Dream Sequence in Fiction an article that I thought was pretty good for anyone who's looking for info on writing dreams).

 

[Graylorne]

As long as it is interesting to read, I have no problem with dream fragments. If you need it, then you should write it.

Personally, I would write the whole chapter in italics, to make clear it's something different from the rest of the story. But that's a matter of taste.

 

[Butterfly]

That's what I thought of doing initially, but it is kind of huge chunk to have in full italics. How would it be to read it?

I have given a huge hint right at the beginning that it is a dream, and gone for normal text.

 

[ThinkerX]

If it advances the story or at least advances or motivates the character, go with it.

 

[Guy]

So it seems I need to a dream sequence about 2/3 of the way through my WIP. What I'm a little concerned about is the fact that it's a nightmare, but is more than simply a dream and there are a lot of negative opinions out there on the use of dreams within a novel.

Do what works. In my stories I make fairly frequent use of dreams because I often have sorcerers assault each other in dreams. While magic in my stories is a natural force and takes physical forms, using it is almost entirely mental. A wizard could have the body of Stephen Hawking and still be a powerful foe. In addition to casting spells at each other, much of their fighting takes place on a mental and psychic level. They invade each others' minds the way hackers invade computers. Dreams would be a good way to do this.

(Something extra How to Write a Realistic Dream Sequence in Fiction an article that I thought was pretty good for anyone who's looking for info on writing dreams).

Just about everything in that article applies to all aspects of a story, not just dreams. On a side note, what the heck is a "realistic dream?"

 

[Alexandra]

So it seems I need to a dream sequence about 2/3 of the way through my WIP. What I'm a little concerned about is the fact that it's a nightmare, but is more than simply a dream and there are a lot of negative opinions out there on the use of dreams within a novel. Basically... it's because it's a dream that isn't real, and the knowledge that what is happening in it isn't really happening on a physical level... meaning there is no real danger of any harm being done.

Who is writing this novel: you, faceless critics, your readers, 'market forces'? If you take on the role of the sole decision maker you will enjoy more creative freedom and questions such as this one will be much easier to answer.

In my WIP a couple of my major characters are seers and dreaming is very important to them so yes, I employ dreaming in my work. If a dream sequence is important to your story by all means use it.

 

[Svrtnsse]

A thought I had while reading this was to make it obvious to the reader that it's a nightmare and play up the MCs fears and emotions.

Dreams are full of really weird things happening that sound really silly when you talk about them morning after, but which are perfectly normal when you're dreaming them. You could have the MC experience things that are completely other-worldly and react to them as if it was perfectly normal - or react to them in ways that would be very at odds with what he normally acts like.


I'm also not entirely sure of why dream sequences would be frowned upon - unless it's used to fool the reader into thinking something is happening and then going "haha, it was just a dream".

 

[ascanius]

Up until now they have only been mentioned, but now with the fever he has no control over them, and they come through vividly. But, they are more than simply nightmares. They’re a glimpse of hell (not in the real world sense) and a glimpse of his fate should he fail and fall to the enemy. It is, in many ways, a promise of the darkness to come... so I think it's a pretty solid reason to use it. But...

So, I am having a few reservations over using a dreamscape scenario... so from what I’ve said, should I use it or not? (I'm looking to be convinced of the pros and cons of it in one direction or another).

And, what are your opinions on reading / writing a character's dreams in general?

Ok so your using the dream to foreshadow or at least establish what is at stake. Can you foreshadow in any other way without resorting to a dream, maybe a little scattered throughout the previous chapters? Does it have to be a dream? I think the character seeing the possible consequences of failure in the world around him will have more impact and build off its self. Not to mention you get the added bonus of enriching your world. Maybe the character goes to help a village only to fined it a burning ruin and a person comes running out of a building in flames screaming. I like this more because it shows the setting and the dynamics at play within your world, who burned the village? why? Is this a fate that is possible for others? Who are the villagers? Are they important to the MC's?. They ask questions and you can decide how and if to answer them. I'm not saying you need to completely go off track for the sake of foreshadowing just maybe adding the foreshadowing in subtle ways to what you already have. Hell maybe the event is a major plot point yet at the same time subtle foreshadowing. This way one event serves multiple purposes instead of just one. Or small snippets of the dream scattered throughout? Any reason it has to be one big chapter? There is nothing wrong with your idea just thought I would give an opposing view.

In my WIP I make use of nightmares. I choose the dreams route fore two reasons. 1. Foreshadowing like yourself. 2. A way to give hints at the characters past without doing flashbacks. I could add the foreshadowing to the flashback but I want the foreshadowing to be a current fear not something associated only to the past, with dreams it becomes a past fear that is very much alive and haunting.

That being said I don't see anything wrong with using a dream for the purpose you mentioned. I don't mind reading about a characters dreams and/or nightmares. Not a big fan if their sole purpose is to give information to the reader or character and nothing else, personal taste. I would try to get the dream to have more than one purpose if you can. Do what works though, not just because some stranger on the interweb suggests.

I'm also not entirely sure of why dream sequences would be frowned upon - unless it's used to fool the reader into thinking something is happening and then going "haha, it was just a dream".

I think they are frowned upon because they are usually used as plot devices, to impart important knowledge to the character in question. Kinda like the heroine being shown that the magic lamp of a million suns is in the downstairs drawing room, north east corner and under the seventh floorboard to the left. Or a prophetic dream where the character learns what they are destined to to do, so ergo exactly what they need to do. It's a convenient way to get knowledge to a character or reader without putting work into it. From my understanding this is.

 

[teacup]

I wouldn't use italics for the full dream, but that's probably a stylistic choice.

I'm a believer that anything can be made to be good as long as the execution is right. (I say this partly because I watched an anime about drills. Sounds stupid right? No. It was amazing.)
As long as it is written in such a way that it's clear enough that it's a dream, and it actually advances the plot or characters, then you should be fine.

I have no problems with reading dream sequences, and sometimes it can be a nice change from the reality. I also have no problem with writing dream sequences. I even have a chapter in which one character is dreaming, but that dream is 3 character's memories playing within his head. Now that could be tricky

 

[deilaitha]

As a person who has always had extraordinarily vivid--I mean vivid dreams, I am of the opinion that dreams are in fact a realistic part of the human psyche. People who say dreams don't belong in writing are entitled to their opinion, but I feel that if it is appropriate to the plot, include it in the story. However, keep in mind that not all people dream to the same degree. I dream so vividly that I can remember dreams from when I was a little kid; I frequently sleep talk and sometimes even wake up screaming. My husband, on the other hand, hardly ever remembers his dreams. Before his graduation from grad school he had a pretty wacky nightmare. He only remembers or dreams vividly when he is under a lot of pressure.

What I am trying to say, I guess, is to be aware that dreaming says a lot about your character. A vivid dream is a big deal to someone who rarely recalls their dreams. A weird dream could be commonplace to another individual. If a person regularly dreams, they might be inclined to overlook a "prophetic" dream as just another wacky cut-up bit of their imagination (oh, the delightful irony you might create with that).

Another thing to consider about dreams is that (unless they are supernaturally induced) are for the most part nonsensical. Dreams in literature should not be portrayed as highly logical. Also, even non-frightening dreams are mainly inspired by fear or desire. I have nightmares about being late for work because I can't move forward more than an inch at a time. I also have dreams about finding a ton of my favorite collectibles at ridiculously cheap prices. So, your three big indicators of a dream are: nonsense, fear, and desire. Dreams, especially in writing, need to have significant psychological elements; e.g., what size is your character with respect to the world around him/her?

Generally, my personal taste is not to indicate that the person is dreaming. It usually becomes apparent, because of subject matter, at some point before you say, "s/he woke up." I have always found it fairly easy to figure out that it's a dream well prior to the great reveal. If you are concerned about clarity, you might have the character look at the dream in retrospect. This way is it obvious that the dream is not a 'true' part of the narrative, and you can explore the character's reaction to the dream at the same time.

 

[Butterfly]

Thanks for all replies and suggestions. I am going to keep it in.

It does lead to all sorts of questions from a member of the group who is kind of a priest. He has several theories about the source of them, and lots of insinuations, suspicions, questions that the dreamer can't answer... yet. So he will end up going out and doing some research.

Another question... How would you handle writing the dreams of say a psychic character or someone who has lots of dreams or even visions while awake?

I'm thinking - go in detail with the most relevant ones, and mention the not so relevant, but would a lot of dreams done like this be jarring to read?

 

[Guy]

Like anything, you don't want to overdo it. But what constitutes overdoing it? That gets pretty subjective. I think a recurring dream would be a lot easier to over use than other types of dreams. When my wizard characters have dreams of divination I usually make it clear, and I don't make them very long or detailed. Being able to see too much in dreams and visions would answer too many questions too quickly. Write something and see if it works.

 

[ThinkerX]

I've two ideas that tie in with this I've been batting around for a long while now.

With the first, borrowed more or less from Lovecraft, the character actually visits another world while dreaming. Sort of an 'astral travel' type deal. I used this concept in the 'Visit to your fantasy world' challenge.

The second could tie in with the first or it could go somewhere else altogether: essentially the character cannot tell if he is dreaming or awake. He goes to sleep as Fred in New York and wakes up as Ragnar in some fantasy world, with no clue as to which setting is the real 'waking world'.

 

[The Dark One]

I feel really strongly about this topic...in fact, I think I'll write a blog entry on it.

Too often I hear people mouthing absolutes about what works or doesn't work in writing. It's all a load of bollocks! If it's good it works...end of. My recently published novel (not fantasy, but like all my work contains some surreal/fantastical nuances) features a dream sequence that unfolds throughout the story and is crucial to the resolution. I was a little concerned about using a dream sequence because of the usual cries of cliché etc, but in the end I decided that despite being a dream sequence, it was completely different (to the best of my knowledge) to every other dream sequence in the history of literature.

And based on my own experience.

Several years ago I awoke one morn, on the edge of a dream, and suddenly realised that I have a dream suburbia...just slightly different from real suburbia...which forms the backdrop for all my dreams. In my sleep, I know that dream suburbia as well as I know the real suburbia, but they are so similar that I actually construct memories and can't tell whether they are dream or real.

As you can see, this is a powerful device to use in the resolution of a murder mystery.

And in case you were concerned...I have given nothing away.