• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Emma Watson's UN speech

Bortasz

Troubadour
Some videos from different point of view if anybody is interesting:

Molyneux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o0euhM6bjg

Mundane Mad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EyDqbXLvpE


Bane666
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbnhQePVBe0

Honey badger Brigade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFI6n-mSdWg

nypost
Emma Watson has the wrong idea about feminism | New York Post

Times:
http://time.com/3432838/emma-watson-feminism-men-women/

And of course everybody are invited here:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/
If you want more different point of view.
 

Jabrosky

Banned
Recently, even the action genre — once the bastion of testosterone —has a tendency to show women as the stronger sex. The recent “Resident Evil” remake movie series made the female protagonist the winner of every fight, and the Angelina Jolie-starring “Salt” was rewritten for a female hero, despite initially being crafted for a male.
Judging from how many of these action heroines in movies and video games are portrayed, I'd wager that their design and characterization owe at least as much to attracting straight male audiences as supporting feminist ideals. Not that I always have a problem with such portrayals myself (I am a straight male after all), but the writer is kidding themselves if they seriously believe that the trend represents a rampant pop-culture misandry.

Furthermore, even if women look like they're treated with kid gloves in certain cultural venues, that is probably due more to old-school chivalry than feminism. The prejudices that women are naturally more nurturing and deserve gentler and more courteous treatment than men is much, much older than modern feminism and actually has its roots in patriarchal ideals of submissive women staying in the home. The whole "sugar and spice" trope may irritate guys like me today, but we can't blame feminism for it.
 

Bortasz

Troubadour
O yes I forget.


Thanks to remind me about Video Games and Women from there.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
RE: Watson

I think she did an excellent job with her speech, and it is nice to see someone who was a child star and now an adult doing something like this instead of going the route of Lindsay Lohan et al.

Watson could live on her money the rest of her life and never do anything important, or make anyone angry (she's received the predictable threats for making this speech), and instead she's taking a visible stance on this issue, and I say good for her.
 

Bortasz

Troubadour
RE: Watson

I think she did an excellent job with her speech, and it is nice to see someone who was a child star and now an adult doing something like this instead of going the route of Lindsay Lohan et al.

Watson could live on her money the rest of her life and never do anything important, or make anyone angry (she's received the predictable threats for making this speech), and instead she's taking a visible stance on this issue, and I say good for her.

I disagree. She demand from sacrifice from men to help women that already have equality.

If you saying that it is nice to see rich young person who is not spoil on this I agree.
 

Bortasz

Troubadour
Because all women everywhere on the planet have equality?

In Poland were I live women have equal right than man.
In UK women have equal right.
In USA women have equal right.

Now if you find me feminist organization that not only talk about women in Sudan, Iraq, Sauid Arabia, but actually help them I'm all for that.
But I'm sick and tired of feminists that use women from third world countries to justified they demands. And I see only this. More demands, more privileges for women, more obligation for men.
 

acapes

Sage
But I'm sick and tired of feminists that use women from third world countries to justified they demands.

Well, it wouldn't do to have people in one country fight for rights of people in another country, that'd be crazy.

ETA: In the US, UK, and so on, equal rights in policy (if that) and equality in actuality are not one and the same of course.
 
Last edited:

Nihal

Vala
I hate to break it to you, but the world doesn't spin around the US, UK or Poland, and even if it did I suspect gender equality wasn't 100% achieved there either.

I honestly try to stay away of these debates. The displays of self-righteousness, extremism and prejudices abound. It makes my blood boil, and I am far less articulated than Ms. Watson.
 

Bortasz

Troubadour
Well, it wouldn't do to have people in one country fight for rights of people in another country, that'd be crazy.

For moment I will ignore sarcasm and simple demand proof. Polish Feminist focus now on getting parities so instead the most qualify person will be on board of directors, or in Polish Senat it will be split 50v50 women and men. I only see them mention people from other countries when somebody start question the need for feminism.

Also this site:
Women Against Feminism
Was created not by accident neither by men.
 

acapes

Sage
For moment I will ignore sarcasm and simple demand proof. Polish Feminist focus now on getting parities so instead the most qualify person will be on board of directors, or in Polish Senat it will be split 50v50 women and men. I only see them mention people from other countries when somebody start question the need for feminism.

Also this site:
Women Against Feminism
Was created not by accident neither by men.

You want proof that women in one country sometimes want to support women in other countries?

That site is a joke made by women who have enough equality to take it for granted.
 

Bortasz

Troubadour
I hate to break it to you, but the world doesn't spin around the US, UK or Poland, and even if it did I suspect gender equality wasn't 100% achieved there either.

I honestly try to stay away of these debates. The displays of self-righteousness, extremism and prejudices abound. It makes my blood boil, and I am far less articulated than Ms. Watson.

You are right. There is no 100% gender equality there.

4 of 5 suicide's are men.
Men lose custody of there children in 80% divorces.
More than 70% of death in work place are man.

In the USA campuses now women can falsely accuse men of Rape, and she will not be punish but men will be expelled from the university.

Some other facts:
Facts

So If you want fight for true equality the MRM is open.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I disagree. She demand from sacrifice from men to help women that already have equality.

I disagree. In the U.S., and I expect in many other places, there is still a pay gap. The pay gap affects women of all demographics, but women of color and older women are hit even harder by it. As a rule, women tend to be more highly represented in part-time, or uncertain job positions, less represented in the upper tiers of the work force, and statistically make less, on average, than their male counterparts.

Women still tend to be underrepresented in the board room and in government, despite making up just over half of the population. This is particularly true in the tech industry, and women still have a ways to go to be represented properly in math, science, engineering, and the like. If you look at how girls are treated in their early education, from elementary school through high school, you can see that much of disparity is due to institutionalized differences in how boys and girls are taught, and how teachers interact with them.

Domestic/sexual violence still disproportionately affects women, as do societal stereotypes or views on the victims of sexual violence. This takes on an increased level of severity in some countries, that is true, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the U.S. as well. It does.

Women are still vastly more likely than men to fall below the poverty line after a divorce.

Women face an intrusive level of government regulation into their health and reproductive lives, even in the U.S., to an extent unknown by men.

Women, even in the U.S. still take on the bulk of domestic and child-rearing activities, even in two-income households where both partners are working outside of the home.

And so on.

The "everything is already equal" argument isn't really borne out by the facts, and the "women have even more rights" argument is absurd on its face.
 

Nihal

Vala
So, there are false accusations of rape, and that means—means what? That all the women take advantage of men, therefore, you should not care about the ones who actually need help?
Then I can infer that all the men are savages because a husband has beaten his wife to death. Sounds about right. Very reasonable argument.

That's my cue to step away from this thread. That's the extremism and prejudice I mentioned. They abound in both sides. It's not a debate. It's pointing fingers and screaming who is right, ignoring everything else that the other "side" (like if it was a war!) said.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Men's Rights Advocacy sites are usually full of misinformation, and the same is true of the links above to A Voice for Men.

First, the Federal Rules of Evidence, apply to any defendant and victim in sexual assault cases. They're not gender specific. The only way you can argue they benefit women more is if you acknowledge that women are vastly more likely to be the victims in those cases. Which is true. If you address the underlying disparity of gender in terms of the victims of domestic violence, then there is no de facto disparity in the application of the Federal Rules of Evidence. That's just not a good argument.

There are areas where, historically, in the criminal justice system, things have been harsher on men. Death penalty is mentioned. Historically, the man was much more likely to be arrested in a domestic violence situation. The latter isn't really the case any more if all other things are equal and the male is the one who is injured. The fact remains, though, that women are more likely to be the victims, making the reason men are more likely to be arrested self-evident.

Rape shield laws can apply to either gender as well. At essence, they're a public policy decision that stems from society's disproportionate view of sexuality in men and women. When men are sexually promiscuous, it is given a pass, or applauded, or expected. Women are still stigmatized, and bringing in past sexual behavior of the rape victim is just a way to play on societal prejudice against female sexuality and to attempt to argue that the woman was asking for it if she's been sexually promiscuous in the past. As a de facto matter, it is disparate treatment, but only because women are much more likely to be in the victim role, and as a necessary balance to societal prejudices against female sexuality.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Moving back to the UN speech, I think it is good to see:

1. A young person taking an active role;
2. A young woman taking an active role on gender issues in such an international forum; and
3. A young, wealthy celebrity who could do nothing with the rest of her life and live just fine, taking a serious and considered position on an important topic, even though she knew there was a certain segment of the populace who would criticize or threaten her for doing it (which is exactly what happened).
 
Top