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Fantasy Combat! Hagrid vs Gregor =)

Who wins the Death Match?

  • They kill each other!

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Hagrid crushes Gregor like a toy, no question!

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Gregor wins, but dies later of his injuries.

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Hagrid wins, but dies later of his injuries.

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Gregor manages to win without much trouble.

    Votes: 7 50.0%

  • Total voters
    14

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
Welcome to the Death Match between Fantasy giants!

This is a battle between the gentle Rubeus Hagrid from the Harry Potter series and the evil Gregor Clegane from A Song of Ice and Fire, also known as Game of Thrones. In this scenario, the usually peaceful Hagrid has some very good reason to be furious and fight savagely.

Instead of the better known film and TV versions, both characters are in their book version.

Gregor: According to the books, he is nearly eight feet tall. That could be 7'10'' perhaps, around 2.4 meters. Estimates for Gregor's weight are in the range of 420 pounds or 190 kilograms.

Hagrid: The books do not provide a precise height for Hagrid, but he is described as being twice as tall as an ordinary man and five times as wide. In case the ordinary man is 5'10'' this would make Hagrid 11'8'' tall, but he could be the full 12'. That means between 3.5 and 3.7 meters. I have not found estimates for his weight, but my own calculation indicates at least one thousand kilograms or 2200 pounds.

Gregor will have his armor, sword and shield while Hagrid will be given a sword and shield too, but no armor. They really want to kill each other, and this does not end until one of them is dead!

Who will win this ultimate Giants Death Match? XD!
 
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Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
I think Gregor would win. Hagrid would dominate the first part of the battle with his magic ability and greater height, but eventually he'd try to show mercy. In this moment Gregor does a good old eyeball squeezer and boom... Dead Hagrid.

This seems to be the most interesting scenario and also most true to the characters. It's hard to imagine Hagrid being in a violent minutes-long bloodrage. That would go against his personality, so merciful Hagrid it is... Merciful and very, very dead.
 

Jerseydevil

Minstrel

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
Has Sheila started watching 'Game of Thrones?' Or reading the books?

Anyhow, I'd vote for Gregor, based on sheer murderousness.
 

Drakevarg

Troubadour
Alright, so not only would Hagrid win, but this fight is so laughably one-sided in his favor that I'm convinced the ONLY reason there's any question as to the outcome is set squarely on the narrative perceptions of each character. So allow me to utterly destroy those misconceptions.

Hagrid is popularly seen as a complete puppy-dog of a manchild, largely thanks to being a cheerful, upbeat person who has been on friendly terms with the point-of-view character since they were a child. Gregor is a vicious, bloodthirsty lunatic of a man and is almost universally feared in his world as a giant of almost supernatural strength. Here's the thing though: Hagrid is not from his world. Hagrid's world is much, much more dangerous.

The world of Game of Thrones is a bleak, gritty world where magic is largely the realm of myth, and its few examples in-story have been by-and-large been massive turning points in the march of history. It's a world where a dragon doesn't alter the course of a battle, it alters the course of entire wars. In the world of Harry Potter, daily life is so dangerous that having all the bones teleported out of your arm is considered wacky hijinks. It's a world where a dragon (which are by all indications every bit as dangerous as the ones owned by Khaleesi, if not moreso), and a brooding mother at that (which most people can tell you, there are few things more dangerous than a mother standing between you and its children), is considered an appropriate obstacle for a high school senior in a sports competition. Hagrid thought one might make a good housepet.

Gregor is incredibly strong, but his two most impressive feats actually shown are beheading a horse with his sword (which is what zweihanders are for) and crushing a man's skull with his bare hands. Hagrid, meanwhile, literally IS supernaturally strong. His most impressive physical feat actually shown is tossing a man thirty feat into the air onto his roof. In a fight where neither side was trying to kill the other.

Remember the Mountain vs. the Viper? Well take the difference in weight class between Oberyn and Gregor, DOUBLE IT, and you'd have the size advantage Hagrid has over Gregor. Gregor might be stronger than him pound-for-pound (and that's iffy, Hagrid is literally superhuman and is by no means out of shape), but Hagrid is four times his size. Even when you take viciousness into account, that's like comparing a Great Dane and a rhinoceros.

One might point to the fact that Gregor is a warrior and Hagrid is a wizard, bringing the "squishy glass cannon" archetype into account. No. Hagrid hasn't been a wizard since he was 14, not really. He's spent the last thirty years as the sole game warden of the most dangerous forest in Briton. And when he goes in there his weapon of choice isn't his umbrella, it's a crossbow. In D&D terms, he's a Half-Giant Ranger with, optimistically, a two-level dip in Wizard.

The thing is, Gregor might be universally feared in his world, but his world is a world of steel and flesh and blood. Hagrid might be considered a friend to children, but he's at home around monsters that Gregor's world considers nightmarish legends. Hagrid named one 'Fluffy.'

You put these two men in a cage match and force them to fight to the death, and Hagrid could end it by clapping. Hagrid trying NOT to kill a man launches him like he was in a car crash. Hagrid TRYING to kill a man would mean a single punch would reduce his victim's organs to precipitation, with a shield and armor being so much tinfoil around a baked potato.
 

TheKillerBs

Maester
Harry Potter wizards aren't even squishy. Example: 11-year-old Neville falls off a broom 20+ feet, only suffers a broken wrist. Also, Hagrid gets beaten up by his 16-foot full-Giant "little" brother all the time and doesn't receive any fatal injuries from it, so he is most definitely not squishy.
 

Queshire

Auror
Anyway you look at it Gregor has the advantage in terms of training, skill, and willingness to kill. I don't count Hagrid's experience as a groundskeeper in this since those are animals. Magical animals, true, but still animals. He has no training to properly use a sword and a shield, and I'm doubtful about how much his resistance would hold up in the face of that.

Despite that though.... That extra height and weight for Hagrid is kinda a big deal. In fantasy land it's not as big a deal, but realistically generally the bigger guy wins. Add to that Gregor's normal fighting style getting thrown slightly off since he's used to fighting guys smaller than him and I gotta give it to Hagrid.

Basically, if it's a matter of skill then Gregor wins hands down, attributes then it's Hagrid and in the scenario outlined, attrbitues seems more important than skill.
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
Hello everyone!

ThinkerX: No, I have not started reading Martin's books or watching the TV series either. Since some time ago I have concluded that the current Ultra Gritty trend in Fantasy is because of those works, and I want to voice my opinion that this is a bad influence on Fantasy and that too much Grit is wrong.

I have watched a lot of death and gore scenes from the series in order to criticize it more effectively, and now I think that it should be renamed Happy Throne Friends.

About the fight:

The difference in height and weight between Hagrid and Gregor is too large. Gregor trying to fight Hagrid would be like a 5'3'' and 85lb boy trying to fight Gregor, so it would be quite a laughable scene. Hagrid would probably kill Gregor with a single punch, or even pick him up and tear him in half if he wanted to.

People in other Forums have already explored this comparison, and one person suggested that Hagrid would do to Gregor the same that the Hulk did to Loki in a recent Avengers movie.

A better match for Hagrid would be a Troll from the HP world or a Giant from the AsoIaf world.
 
Does Hagrid even know how to use a sword? Plus, Gregor wears extremely heavy armor. A 4-foot advantage in height, plus weight, would be advantageous for Hagrid, no doubt. But Gregor wields a sword with a six-foot blade and is strong enough to wield the two-hander in only one hand. Hagrid's blows could be powerful, but also could glance off the armor (especially also if clumsy), whereas Gregor could gut Hagrid in one pass. Hagrid would need to be lucky enough to intercept the sword with his shield, and I'm assuming his shield-work would also be clumsy.

Reminds me of the Hulk vs Wolverine match-ups. From what I've read, there were three? Each won once, but one fight ended in a draw. When Wolverine won, the much stronger Hulk was left on the ground with his guts spilling out.
 

Drakevarg

Troubadour
To Hagrid, a zweihander would be an arming sword. Any way you look at it he has the advantage when it comes to reach.

I think you're severely underestimating Hagrid's strength. Gregor may wear heavy armor, but "heavy armor" in a human context is still pretty light stuff. And I can't stress enough that Hagrid's idea of a nonlethal attack is to toss a full grown man onto his roof like he was a doll. Gregor might have a speed and skill advantage over Hagrid, but Oberyn had the same advantages over Gregor, only Oberyn was way faster and way more skilled and Hagrid is VASTLY stronger.
 
I doubt a little bit the assessment of Hagrid's strength, but not much. But I think that Gregor's skill shouldn't be so quickly dismissed, nor the way that a sword in a skilled hand can equalize a fight when size disparity is a factor. Hagrid might be slower, less agile. He could reach for Gregor to throw the man but have difficulty throwing him after Gregor's sliced off half his arm.

I do think that odds are in Hagrid's favor. But I'm not certain of Gregor's skill level, also, or his ability to assess the danger that Hagrid would pose.
 
Does Hagrid even know how to use a sword? Plus, Gregor wears extremely heavy armor. A 4-foot advantage in height, plus weight, would be advantageous for Hagrid, no doubt. But Gregor wields a sword with a six-foot blade and is strong enough to wield the two-hander in only one hand. Hagrid's blows could be powerful, but also could glance off the armor (especially also if clumsy), whereas Gregor could gut Hagrid in one pass. Hagrid would need to be lucky enough to intercept the sword with his shield, and I'm assuming his shield-work would also be clumsy.

Reminds me of the Hulk vs Wolverine match-ups. From what I've read, there were three? Each won once, but one fight ended in a draw. When Wolverine won, the much stronger Hulk was left on the ground with his guts spilling out.

A four foot height advantage is huge. That would be me fighting my one-year-old.
 

Drakevarg

Troubadour
A four foot height advantage is huge. That would be me fighting my one-year-old.

To be fair, in this context a four foot advantage is a "mere" 50% increase in height. But because Square-Cube Law is a thing, the difference between a 6 foot man and an 8 foot one isn't nearly as much as the difference between the 8-foot man and a 12-foot one.
 

Sheilawisz

Queen of Titania
Moderator
The sword that Hagrid uses in this battle is proportional to his height, so it would be a ten-foot or three meters long sword.

It's true that Hagrid is not a trained swordsman, but given his size all that he has to do is to swing it. Any impact would cause devastating damage to Gregor because of blunt force even if the blade did not cut through the armor, and even if Gregor managed to evade the swings and close the distance Hagrid would just kick him or deliver a hit with the huge shield.

In case Hagrid grabbed Gregor, he would probably toss him a great distance against a wall.

I am not sure because I do not know the character of Gregor good enough, but I guess that suddenly facing such a huge opponent would play some kind of psychological trick against him.
 

Ban

Troglodytic Trouvère
Article Team
It's true that Hagrid is not a trained swordsman, but given his size all that he has to do is to swing it. Any impact would cause devastating damage to Gregor because of blunt force even if the blade did not cut through the armor, and even if Gregor managed to evade the swings and close the distance Hagrid would just kick him or deliver a hit with the huge shield.
.

I can tell you as an amateur boxer, that it doesn't matter how big or strong you are. The person with a lot of experience and technique will beat the shit out of any unexperienced bloke stronger than him. The same applies to any martial art, including swordfighting. Hagrid would most likely have no idea how to strike effectively, and due to Gregor's agility (He is known to be surprisingly agile for his immense size) he could deflect Hagrid's blows. Also, with sword fighting in particular, it is more important to be able to strike more directly, than to strike with more force. A sword isn't a club. Over a certain limit, the amount of force you put behind it will barely affect the damage it can deal. Considering both of them are incredibly strong, their strength difference becomes unimportant in this particular scenario.
 
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Plus, Gregor isn't susceptible to psychological weakness, shock and awe--and Hagrid isn't the type to go berserk, fighting without hesitation or doubt. Any hesitation vs Gregor is probably a death sentence, since Gregor goes for the kill.

This is probably the first time Hagrid has ever held a sword. I could be forgetting some things, but armed and armored foes possessing great skill with a sword don't feature much in Rowling's world. One example I remember (?) is the scrawny and tiny Harry Potter defeating a much larger, more powerful foe in Chamber of Secrets with a sword.

In fact, I'd guess Hagrid's shield would be his most effective weapon here, due to his strength and penchant for brawling. Incidentally, how would he be picking up and throwing Gregor, a man heavier than most of Hagrid's other human adversaries, while holding sword and shield? If he drops those, he opens up for Gregor to strike.

Still, one sweep of that shield, or bash, and Gregor would be in trouble. Plus, Gregor's normal fighting style could lead him into trouble if he tries blocking shield or sword with his own sword and shield, given Hagrid's strength and assuming Hagrid was able to put his full force behind the attack. (Stance is important.)

But even in Rowling's world, 1-year-olds can force fully grown adults accross country, if we can believe Hagrid's account of his adventure with his 16-foot-tall brother Grawp. But maybe that's stretching the metaphor too far.
 
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I can tell you as an amateur boxer, that it doesn't matter how big or strong you are. The person with a lot of experience and technique will beat the shit out of any unexperienced bloke stronger than him. The same applies to any martial art, including swordfighting. Hagrid would most likely have no idea how to strike effectively, and due to Gregor's agility (He is known to be surprisingly agile for his immense size) he could deflect Hagrid's blows. Also, with sword fighting in particular, it is more important to be able to strike more directly, than to strike with more force. A sword isn't a club. Over a certain limit, the amount of force you put behind it will barely affect the damage it can deal. Considering both of them are incredibly strong, their strength difference becomes unimportant in this particular scenario.

No it doesn't. Seriously look at something ten feet tall and think about a human that big. Then think about him wielding a sword and shield that is proportionate to his size and anyone would crap his pants, including Gregor. Then the forces applied at the end of the sword from a quick strike would be ridiculous.

Here is a good size comparison one man is 6 feet tall the other 9.
220px-Robert_Wadlow.jpg


That reach advantage alone is nothing to sneeze at. But add on just the girth of dear Hagrid and you have a foe that could likely kill Mr. Clegane.
 
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