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GoT Season 4 [NO SPOILERS, PLEASE]

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by Legendary Sidekick, Apr 7, 2014.

  1. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Those who want to discuss the show, but do NOT know what's coming in the next episodes, feel free to discuss here. Please keep this thread spoiler-free, or tag spoilers if in doubt. Theories from those who haven't read ahead of the show are welcome.
     
  2. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    I am on book 2, so I don't know anything about this season or next.

    The Hound and Arya will have to part ways for my prediction to come true. For Arya to join the Faceless.
    I do not believe Arya has anything of royalty in her future.

    I have a theory that the future rulers will ride the three dragons,
    1.Dany, 2. Snow, 3. I don't know but I hope Tyrion is there with wine in his belly.

    For the above to come true:
    Jeofry, Cersei (*Possibly Tyrion and Jamie) would be killed by someone other then Dany and Snow. Tyrion isn't proud of his family but he would not party voluntarily with those that killed them either. Except possibly if Sansa did it or had it done.

    I believe the three will lead the world to victory over the Winter critters not the human wars.

    *I can see Tyron, Tyrion and Jamie surviving, Tyrion would be the greatest challenge since he is the most powerful leader of the armies, but that could be a way to end the war, have a great leader sign a pact to be loyal to the new leader. (Not sure what the new leader would be...appointed king or voted in leader. There is no king north of the wall.)

    I think it would be great if Arya and Dany could meet and become friends. Dany already has befriended assasins.
     
  3. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Is the second Tyrion meant to be Tywin?
     
  4. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    One was. :)
    I guess rumors are not spoilers.
    I do think Snow will have the potential to be the leader by actions in the war, not only based on rumors of his parentage. But if true it would make it all the more possible.
    As I have only read to middle book 2, I have no spoilers. (except for those that haven't watched the series up to beginning season 4.)
     
  5. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Past seasons and shows that aired are fair game. I enjoyed the show without knowing what would happen, and now I'll enjoy the show knowing what will happen (unless I take too long to finish book #5--the other books only took a couple week, but I have a lot going on lately).

    I'm looking forward to what will be posted in this thread as the season goes on, in addition to reactions from my wife.
     
  6. A. E. Lowan

    A. E. Lowan Forum Mom Leadership

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    My question is, why would anyone accept Jon Snow as King, regardless of his parentage? By this point he's already an oath breaker, and if he were to ascend to the Iron Throne, or any throne, he would be in blatant, public violation of his oaths to The Night's Watch. He might become a war leader, but if he rises above that, GRRM and the television writers are going to have do some fancy writing to explain it.
     
  7. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    Jon would be fulfilling a greater duty to the realm as a king, especially if for some reason he is reluctant to accept coronation.
     
  8. A. E. Lowan

    A. E. Lowan Forum Mom Leadership

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    I'm just not sure how far that flies. Look how much Jaime is dragged through the mud for breaking his vows as a King's Guard. He killed his King. The King was insane, burned Ned Stark's sister to death (along with countless others), and was deposed by Robert Baratheon. And still Jaime is known as King Slayer, a man without honor, because he is an oath breaker. These guys take oaths very seriously, as we are shown time and time again.
     
  9. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    True, it all really depends on how it is set up. Books six and seven may well turn everything concerning this notion of honor on its head when Westeros falls into desperation.

    Winter is coming, after all.
     
  10. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    He would be the ultimate leader of the Night's watch.

    But Jaime said he never told anyone why he slayed the king, when he told Bre.

    The explanation would matter to honorable men.
     
  11. A. E. Lowan

    A. E. Lowan Forum Mom Leadership

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    What I described is what everyone knows about what happened. Everyone knew the King was insane. Everyone knew he was burning people. Everyone knew he fell on the wrong side of history. And still Jaime is known as a man without honor. Jaime didn't explain himself because he didn't think it would matter, even to Ned Stark who was in his mind the most honorable of men.
     
  12. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Thoughts on last night's episode? Having read the book, I can say I was into really into a certain scene because of a certain dialogue exchange that was true to the book, word for word.



    (Note: You can specify what actually happens in the show. Once the episode has aired, anything you say about it is not a spoiler as far as I'm concerned. By now, GoT fans should know not to click anything related to the show if they haven't seen the latest episode.)
     
  13. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    Just watched Joffrey's waterloo.
    Robbery! So many ways to die and he is poisoned.

    Tyrion blamed and Sansa disappears, making it look as if they were in it together.

    I did not see the whole show, but I am pretty sure Tyrion did not do it, and Sansa couldn't be involved without giving it away. To fearful of her own shadow to plot against the king.
     
  14. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    Interesting take... when I read it, the scene was quite satisfying. I'm not sure if the dwarf jousting was done differently in the book or exactly as televised, but overall, the scene was faithful to the book and more or less as I pictured it. My wife and I both came up with the same list of suspects. Both the book and the show have the same people close enough to the source of the poison, and that itself is in question.

    My wife laughed at the dead dove in the pie. You're seeing Joff as a cocky jerk, worse than he's ever been, then... Koff! Koff! Koff! He dies in pain and fear. Good on the actor for portraying Joff so well that I wanted to see the boy king die.

    Widow's Wail... It didn't occur to me at first, but what an ironic name for his sword!
     
  15. Ankari

    Ankari Hero Breaker Moderator

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    Legendary, you'll have to remind me if GRRM tells us who suggested the name. I have a suspicion it was the Tyrell family. Margaery is now queen, after all. In fact, I'm surprised no one suspects her. She fed Joeffrey the pie. And Joeffrey makes the comment on how dry the pie is.
     
  16. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    One of my coworkers (who has NOT read the books) suspects Margaery. I don't remember if GRRM mentioned that... I'm curious now. I'll have to reread that scene, though I'm under a bit of self-inflicted pressure to finish book #5 before the show gets ahead of me with "Reek's" story.
     
  17. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    I think the plot would be too simple for Margaery to be the assasin. She knows how to play the game, poisoning would get her hands dirty and not leave her much room to play.

    The much deeper plot would be the Grandmother poisoned the king. If she gets away with it, no harm, no foul. If she is caught she simply plays the confused old lady while ensuring the doubt is never cast on Margaery. She makes the ultimate sacrifice for her family. Even more perfect, the event unfolded that family (Tyrion) served Jeoffrey the wine before he died. The infighting obscures the plot even more. Margaery might have known about it or she might not. Much easier to act suprised when you aren't aware of what is happening.

    While Cersi screams of her brothers guilt, onlookers will not be looking to other possible killers.

    Of course, third parties could poison the food. The pie was prepared by cooks and taken to the feast. So at any point the food could be poisoned. The wine also could be spiked at anytime.

    After Joffrey falls:
    *Sansa is approached and told she must leave quickly. (hints that she didn't know what was going on.)
    *Tyrion was examiniing the cup, (hints that he didn't know or was acting like he didn't know)
    *Margaery moves to her Grandmother's side, away from her fighting new inlaws.

    I don't believe any Lannister would have poisoned Joffrey. Tywin could control the king. Jaime was too distracted. Cersei wouldn't kill her own child, "even Joffrey."
    I don't believe the players on the small counsel would do it. They too, know and enjoy playing the game. Poison the king is an "all in" proposition, you either win or die. Their game is about small victories not an end run. How close they dance to the throne without getting cut by the blades, they are secretive about their lust for the throne.
     
  18. Legendary Sidekick

    Legendary Sidekick The HAM'ster Moderator

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    I suspected the grandmother, but the show made me rethink my suspicion. Ser Dontos removes Sansa at a very interesting time. When reading from Tyrion's POV, I had assumed Sansa just ran off. (Could be bad memory, but I think Tyrion didn't see Sanda leave.)

    That said, Ser Dontos wasn't necessarily in on the poisoning. He may have figured that with all the trouble that would ensue, if he intends to save Sansa, the attack on the king forced him to act "now or never."

    While I'm being careful not to give away what hasn't been aired on the show, I can honestly say my suspect list has neither grown nor changed since I read this scene last summer. Who poisoned the boy king? GRRM knows.
     
  19. T.Allen.Smith

    T.Allen.Smith Staff Moderator

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    In my memory, the books were very clear on who actually poisoned Joffrey. I can't say more here because of the spoilers but there were certainly revelations if you've read all five books.
     
  20. SeverinR

    SeverinR Vala

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    So I hear Jaimee raped Cersei. Which was not in the book. I hear in the book Jaime just returned after Joffrey dies.
    So the sex was consential. But in the show, she is grieving and he forces her.

    GRRM takes no credit, nor makes no excuses for the new twist. Since it wasn't his writing.
    But the controversy is they say it was and wasn't rape. That she didn't want it at first then she "changed her mind."

    Was the scene so important to have Jaime force his sister, rather then re-unite the incestial couple later?
    I think this changes Jaime's character back from a misunderstood semi-good guy back to an evil character that people can't support.

    In cowboy terms, when he explained the "kingslayer" incident, he went from a black hat to a white hat (Ok,maybe off white or gray). But this action puts him back into a black hat again. Kingslayer incestial rapist.
     
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