Hello all at Mythic Scribes! I have a very serious delima. I have a wonderful and amazing idea for a fantasy trilogy/saga. However, I have run into a very large problem. I cannot write. I am terrible at writing. My descriptions are horrible, the point does not come across, and the characters, though strong as characters, have weak dialogue. Would anybody be interested or know someone interested in being a co author? The story is very much open ended, and could easily fit anybody's ideas for a fantasy saga.
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Michael K. Eidson
Archmage
Most fantasy authors or aspiring fantasy authors I know have plenty of ideas of their own, often more than they have time to write. That's part of what makes them want to be writers.
How much effort have you given to learning the craft of writing? It doesn't come easy to everyone. I don't have a creative writing degree, but I've spent decades studying the craft on my own. I'm still learning, and not giving up just because I couldn't do it initially. My advice is to put more effort into it, and don't give up. You'll get there, if you want.
How much effort have you given to learning the craft of writing? It doesn't come easy to everyone. I don't have a creative writing degree, but I've spent decades studying the craft on my own. I'm still learning, and not giving up just because I couldn't do it initially. My advice is to put more effort into it, and don't give up. You'll get there, if you want.
noob of the north
Minstrel
I echo Michael that you need to put the effort in. Coming up with ideas is often the easiest part; putting them down on paper and make it all come alive, that's the hard work which takes a lot of time and practise.
It takes time to learn to write, for most of us. I also learned on my own, from craft books and reading, and of course by writing a lot. My descriptions stunk too, but I looked at the awesome descriptions in books that I liked and sussed out what made them so engaging to read. Now, my descriptions are not too bad, but I'm still work constantly on getting better in all areas of writing. Good luck in finding someone to do that hard work, you might succeed, but learning how to write is probably the only way you're gonna do that wonderful idea of yours justice.
It takes time to learn to write, for most of us. I also learned on my own, from craft books and reading, and of course by writing a lot. My descriptions stunk too, but I looked at the awesome descriptions in books that I liked and sussed out what made them so engaging to read. Now, my descriptions are not too bad, but I'm still work constantly on getting better in all areas of writing. Good luck in finding someone to do that hard work, you might succeed, but learning how to write is probably the only way you're gonna do that wonderful idea of yours justice.
Malik
Auror
Nobody is good when they start.
Okay, there's one person on this board who's still in high school whose work makes me want to kill myself, but generally, nobody is good when they start. (I like to imagine that said person is a troll account of a 75-year-old Nebula winner. It makes me feel better.)
I started writing in high school, 30 years ago. I studied English and linguistics in college, wrote nonstop for 15 years trying to get published, worked as a freelance writer, a technical writer, a columnist and editor for a magazine, and I currently write and lecture for a living, and I still write passages that make me cringe.
I'm staring at a scene from my sequel on my other screen, and have been since 4 A.M.; I could have posted the exact words you wrote above just now. To put this in perspective, I've been a bestseller in four countries, I just got a killer review in a national literary trade magazine, I had a photo in my inbox this morning of a pair of female readers holding my book and wearing elf ears and very little else, and I have an inquiry into film rights for my series. I speak at college writing classes. But right now, dude, I suck. Right now, I am a terrible writer and my debut's success was a fluke and I am going to let those girls down unless someone waves a magic wand over my manuscript again.
This feeling never goes away.
So, if you want to write, prepare yourself to marinate in this sensation. You will always feel like you suck, and you will literally die not being as good of a writer as you wanted to be. This is what we do.
That said, we all suck at the outset. So take heart. It takes years, and takes most of us decades, to learn how to put words in the right order so that people will want to keep reading them. College helps--though it's not a panacea for poor writing--but is not necessary. Study of the basic rules of English is critical. Reading voraciously is equally critical. Voracious reading coupled with an understanding of the rules of English is where you get your payoff; the only shortcut I know is to grok your literary theory and language fundamentals so hard that you can read something by another author and understand intuitively why it works--so you can tear it down to the frame as you're reading it--and then file it away so that you can reconstruct it years or months later using your own words, because you know exactly how they did it. It took me about a decade of hard study, but it's a huge time-saver, now.
TL;DR: Read it anyway.
Okay, there's one person on this board who's still in high school whose work makes me want to kill myself, but generally, nobody is good when they start. (I like to imagine that said person is a troll account of a 75-year-old Nebula winner. It makes me feel better.)
I started writing in high school, 30 years ago. I studied English and linguistics in college, wrote nonstop for 15 years trying to get published, worked as a freelance writer, a technical writer, a columnist and editor for a magazine, and I currently write and lecture for a living, and I still write passages that make me cringe.
I'm staring at a scene from my sequel on my other screen, and have been since 4 A.M.; I could have posted the exact words you wrote above just now. To put this in perspective, I've been a bestseller in four countries, I just got a killer review in a national literary trade magazine, I had a photo in my inbox this morning of a pair of female readers holding my book and wearing elf ears and very little else, and I have an inquiry into film rights for my series. I speak at college writing classes. But right now, dude, I suck. Right now, I am a terrible writer and my debut's success was a fluke and I am going to let those girls down unless someone waves a magic wand over my manuscript again.
This feeling never goes away.
So, if you want to write, prepare yourself to marinate in this sensation. You will always feel like you suck, and you will literally die not being as good of a writer as you wanted to be. This is what we do.
That said, we all suck at the outset. So take heart. It takes years, and takes most of us decades, to learn how to put words in the right order so that people will want to keep reading them. College helps--though it's not a panacea for poor writing--but is not necessary. Study of the basic rules of English is critical. Reading voraciously is equally critical. Voracious reading coupled with an understanding of the rules of English is where you get your payoff; the only shortcut I know is to grok your literary theory and language fundamentals so hard that you can read something by another author and understand intuitively why it works--so you can tear it down to the frame as you're reading it--and then file it away so that you can reconstruct it years or months later using your own words, because you know exactly how they did it. It took me about a decade of hard study, but it's a huge time-saver, now.
TL;DR: Read it anyway.
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Russ
Istar
I have to agree with Malik (despite the chuckles his brag list brings on for me), that most authors worth their salt suffer from significant self doubt about their abilities as writer even after long periods of unbelievable success.
I'll just let the father (grandfather?) of the thriller genre make the point for me:
“Self-doubt is one of my constant emotions. At the start of each writing session, I tell myself that yesterday’s work could have been a whole lot better, and I often rewrite a scene many different ways before I decide that I reached the limit of what I can do with it. Writing brings fulfillment, yes, but mostly it brings frustration."
That particular author writes into the evening and then goes and re-reads his work in the morning and finds himself filled with total disgust at what he has written the night before. Every morning when he comes out of his office his wife asks "So how bad was it this morning?"
And that guy has been shaping his genre and selling millions upon millions of books...for decades.
So don't let the doubt stop you writing. The truth is that unless you have a long term friend you have a passion to write with, or a fist full of cash, co-writing is unlikely to lead you very far. Ideas are a dime a dozen, dedication and execution are hard to find.
I'll just let the father (grandfather?) of the thriller genre make the point for me:
“Self-doubt is one of my constant emotions. At the start of each writing session, I tell myself that yesterday’s work could have been a whole lot better, and I often rewrite a scene many different ways before I decide that I reached the limit of what I can do with it. Writing brings fulfillment, yes, but mostly it brings frustration."
That particular author writes into the evening and then goes and re-reads his work in the morning and finds himself filled with total disgust at what he has written the night before. Every morning when he comes out of his office his wife asks "So how bad was it this morning?"
And that guy has been shaping his genre and selling millions upon millions of books...for decades.
So don't let the doubt stop you writing. The truth is that unless you have a long term friend you have a passion to write with, or a fist full of cash, co-writing is unlikely to lead you very far. Ideas are a dime a dozen, dedication and execution are hard to find.
I have an idea that I think is amazing, that I could never do justice for. I posted it in a Trope Reboot for the Chosen One, and as part of my own guidelines for the Trope Reboots, it is now free to use. It reads like this:
Pickled the Picked is now Bálu-Bakô, a black teenager of the Malatanda people, living in the aftermath of a civil war that has left his nation fractured and unstable. In his routine life he faces peer pressures that are connected to scarred families and the infighting of a people who have yet to heal from the war.
When outside forces threaten to exploit the escalating turmoil of the Malatanda city-states, Bálu-Bakô does his best to break up the petty infighting and speak for the unification of his people. Seeing how the people respond to him, the king and the council of elders order their priests to conduct a spiritual rite to grant him a bond with the Agbala. Agbala is the collective spirit of the Malatanda people that connects each individual, both the living and the ancestors. The more that Bálu-Bakô inspires the faith of his fractured people and their ancestors, the greater his access to the power of Agbala becomes.
As the Chosen One of the Malatanda people, Bálu-Bakô possesses heightened physical abilities and access to the knowledge of his people, including their magic. But the greatest power that comes from his bond with Agbala is the ability to draw out and confront the spirits who have given up on the Malatanda people. He has the power to hold each of them accountable for allowing the people to descend into civil war and to rally them to the defense of their nation.
When outside forces threaten to exploit the escalating turmoil of the Malatanda city-states, Bálu-Bakô does his best to break up the petty infighting and speak for the unification of his people. Seeing how the people respond to him, the king and the council of elders order their priests to conduct a spiritual rite to grant him a bond with the Agbala. Agbala is the collective spirit of the Malatanda people that connects each individual, both the living and the ancestors. The more that Bálu-Bakô inspires the faith of his fractured people and their ancestors, the greater his access to the power of Agbala becomes.
As the Chosen One of the Malatanda people, Bálu-Bakô possesses heightened physical abilities and access to the knowledge of his people, including their magic. But the greatest power that comes from his bond with Agbala is the ability to draw out and confront the spirits who have given up on the Malatanda people. He has the power to hold each of them accountable for allowing the people to descend into civil war and to rally them to the defense of their nation.
However, I left something out of the trope reboot. The natural flow of the idea leads straight into a clear concept for the villain's motives. If the magic of Agbala links this group of people, then perhaps the people could be spread across a nation and the magic connecting them used to fuel some kind of a spell on that nation.
^ A great idea is not something that's open-ended. It is not generic enough to fit into any story. A great idea prompts layers upon layers of ideas until it consumes the story. Creativity is not an open phase, one idea and you're done. It's a skill that you employ page after page throughout the story.
And it's a skill that you can learn and develop like any other. But you have to be realistic about where you are with it.
Gurkhal
Auror
What I would advice to to simply start writing. Write small stories about a A4 long and keep writing. Then write some longer stories and keep struggling forever onwards! You can write characterization to develop your characters' voices for the Big Idea you have, you can write background pieces, develop parts of the setting and supporting cast and so on with these smaller stories.
But start writing!
But start writing!
- Thread starter
- #8
The problem for me, is that I have devoted a lot of time to it. My progress however seems to be like a graph of a logarithmic function. I'm always improving, but I'll never make it past that horizontal asymptote. I've been writing for more than ten years. Due to a different career path, I have not been able to study the English language or been able to take it apart. My writing really is never good. More than one person has attested to that fact.
- Thread starter
- #9
The idea itself is not open ended. The story however includes about 12 different kingdoms each with their own culture and politics. By saying it has room for another persons ideas, I mean to say that the kingdoms are a breeding ground for plot. The second part would be about spirits and magicians taking down Ashanar the Thanatos Emporer who threatens the lives of everyone on Writ, but what about the conflicts alongside this? During this time, everything is not peaceful and happy. Peoples lives are still going on, and most people's lives aren't affected by the "villain" of the story. After or before the story, there is history and conflicts that have yet to take place.
You're always going to suck in someone else's eyes or be good. Not every reader can be pleased. Write, write, write, write, write. You'd practice at anything else you want to get good at...right? Do the same with writing.
As others here have said, the feeling of suckiness never goes away. I know this is going to sound really weird...but when I have my strongest moments of self-doubt and want to cry over how my writing career will never go anywhere because my writing is terrible and my books are stupid, I re-read the lovely comments readers have made about my work. I have a few saved so I can remember that not everyone thinks I suck.
Dude, being a writer is so hard and people respect you very little unless you're a best seller. I even had my father comment about how I'm making pennies on my work and it made me sad. He's right. But I'm realistic enough to understand that my books are niche and I will never be rich or on lists. I do, however, love to write so much. I've been doing it all my life and felt like I suck all my life, too.
Just keep at it. Let me tell you something, when you start to read passages that flow (your writing) and characters that are real and twists that would keep a bread sack closed you'll see the hard work is worth it. When readers are touched by your work you'll be even more encouraged. If you want to write, write. We all suck at some point and suckiness is subjective anyway.
Edit: phone typos.
As others here have said, the feeling of suckiness never goes away. I know this is going to sound really weird...but when I have my strongest moments of self-doubt and want to cry over how my writing career will never go anywhere because my writing is terrible and my books are stupid, I re-read the lovely comments readers have made about my work. I have a few saved so I can remember that not everyone thinks I suck.
Dude, being a writer is so hard and people respect you very little unless you're a best seller. I even had my father comment about how I'm making pennies on my work and it made me sad. He's right. But I'm realistic enough to understand that my books are niche and I will never be rich or on lists. I do, however, love to write so much. I've been doing it all my life and felt like I suck all my life, too.
Just keep at it. Let me tell you something, when you start to read passages that flow (your writing) and characters that are real and twists that would keep a bread sack closed you'll see the hard work is worth it. When readers are touched by your work you'll be even more encouraged. If you want to write, write. We all suck at some point and suckiness is subjective anyway.
Edit: phone typos.
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noob of the north
Minstrel
If writing your idea in prose isn't working for you, maybe another form would be better. I don't know much about RPGs and games, but perhaps you'll find people to collaborate with in other media.
goldhawk
Troubadour
Ira Glass on beginners:
"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners. I wish someone has told me. All of us who are in creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is a gap. For the first couple of years you make stuff, it's just not that good. It's trying to be good, it has potential, but it's not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer.
"And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase; they quit. Most people I know who do something interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn't have this special thing that we want it to have. We all got through this.
"And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know that it's normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you finish one piece.
"It's only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I've ever met. It's gonna take a while. It's normal to take a while. You just gotta fight your way through."
"Nobody tells this to people who are beginners. I wish someone has told me. All of us who are in creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is a gap. For the first couple of years you make stuff, it's just not that good. It's trying to be good, it has potential, but it's not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer.
"And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase; they quit. Most people I know who do something interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn't have this special thing that we want it to have. We all got through this.
"And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know that it's normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you finish one piece.
"It's only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I've ever met. It's gonna take a while. It's normal to take a while. You just gotta fight your way through."
I agree with respect to continuing to work on the craft--if you have a passion for it. If not and you just want an income, almost any other option is going to be more effective than writing fiction. You've got to love doing this.
As for co-authors, I don't think anyone is going to go for that if you're just contributing ideas. The truth is, ideas are the easy part. Most writers have many more ideas than they have time to do something with. Co-"authors" are just that--two or more people who are doing the actual writing.
As for co-authors, I don't think anyone is going to go for that if you're just contributing ideas. The truth is, ideas are the easy part. Most writers have many more ideas than they have time to do something with. Co-"authors" are just that--two or more people who are doing the actual writing.
Michael K. Eidson
Archmage
If you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to make it happen, or die trying.
When people tell you your writing isn't good, do they tell you why they think that? It's important to learn what doesn't work for them, so you can assess whether it's something to worry about, and do something about it if it is. Don't be afraid to submit some of your writing for other writers to critique. Enter challenges on this site, where you will get free critiques by knowledgeable writers. Try not to take any critique too personally; analyze it for what the underlying issue is, and see if there's something you can do to correct the issue. I entered a challenge on this site and was told something I thought was unfair, but when I analyzed what was really being said, I realized why it was said, and am in the process of applying it to my WIP.
If it might take you decades to get to where you want to be as a writer, because you (like me) chose a different career path and don't have as much time to give to writing as you'd like, then decide now if that's something you're willing to do. If it's not, then why bother with writing at all? Just be content to be a reader. Lots of people are not writers. If you truly want to be a writer, then realize you're basically going to be working two jobs, and get to work.
Perhaps A.E Lowan can chime in here on what it's like writing with co-authors and how she found them?
I can't tell you how many times I've tried to look up this quote. I totally agree - this notion of having "good taste" - this is exactly how I feel about the subject.
Annoyingkid
Banned
Don't think of co-authorship as a soft option, or a means for someone else to fill in your weaknesses straight up get that out your head, because a co-writer isn't a teacher, and contrary to popular belief, it's actually more difficult than writing solo.
Having to divide responsibilities, agree on a common vision and artistic direction, compromise and mediation to all aspects of the story, having to answer to someone and justify your creative choices every step of the way..
Do you really want that? With someone you've never met irl, no less? If you can't write well with full creative freedom, you can't expect to be able to write better with less.
Writing well is very difficult and very time consuming. That's just the nature of the beast,
Having to divide responsibilities, agree on a common vision and artistic direction, compromise and mediation to all aspects of the story, having to answer to someone and justify your creative choices every step of the way..
Do you really want that? With someone you've never met irl, no less? If you can't write well with full creative freedom, you can't expect to be able to write better with less.
Writing well is very difficult and very time consuming. That's just the nature of the beast,
There's no such thing as a wonderful idea. Or, if you prefer, *all* ideas are wonderful and amazing, and they don't matter in the least, and anyway no ideas are original. Whatever you think, it's done been thunk.
Stories matter. Writers are people who turn ideas into stories. As others here have already observed, it's highly unlikely a person is going to be able to pitch ideas--or even a bunch of worldbuilding notes--and have someone else write them ... and then share the profits. That's a bit like me having an idea for a great-looking yard, then asking who would be willing to plant and tend the garden.
Stories matter. Writers are people who turn ideas into stories. As others here have already observed, it's highly unlikely a person is going to be able to pitch ideas--or even a bunch of worldbuilding notes--and have someone else write them ... and then share the profits. That's a bit like me having an idea for a great-looking yard, then asking who would be willing to plant and tend the garden.
There are ideas that give our minds great pleasure and excitement though, but they're generally different from person to person.
DragonOfTheAerie
Vala
Your story has been planted in your heart. It came to YOU. Don't doubt yourself and feel like you must delegate the work of writing to another person, even partially.
Co-authoring is a viable option for some, i suppose, but feeling inadequate is not a good reason to do it imo.
The truth of it is that almost all writing is garbage before it's dissected, revised, and polished. The dialogue is weak. The point doesn't get across. Then you come back to it with more perspective and improve it. Also, it takes a long time to have any idea what you're doing with writing. Hundreds of thousands or millions of words. You might have to write nine different books before you've got the hang of it...or the same book nine times, lol. Not to mention that all writers think they suck. Even your favorite author. Even the greatest authors. A profound, seething hatred of ones own work seems to be very normal and commonplace among writers.
Don't think you can write? Welcome to the club! None of us think we can write. Maybe we can't. Only one way to find out...
Co-authoring is a viable option for some, i suppose, but feeling inadequate is not a good reason to do it imo.
The truth of it is that almost all writing is garbage before it's dissected, revised, and polished. The dialogue is weak. The point doesn't get across. Then you come back to it with more perspective and improve it. Also, it takes a long time to have any idea what you're doing with writing. Hundreds of thousands or millions of words. You might have to write nine different books before you've got the hang of it...or the same book nine times, lol. Not to mention that all writers think they suck. Even your favorite author. Even the greatest authors. A profound, seething hatred of ones own work seems to be very normal and commonplace among writers.
Don't think you can write? Welcome to the club! None of us think we can write. Maybe we can't. Only one way to find out...
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