Hey guys, up for brainstorming?

[Aidan of the tavern]

Hey people. Recently I feel I've lost...I don't know, my writing mojo or whatever it is, possibly why I've been low profile around here recently. I have lost faith in my formula, and have decided to rebuild certain aspects of my draft. Any help to get me back on the road would be much appreciated:help:.

Whats troubling me most is the antagonist's goal. The main land where the story takes place is comprised of semi-independant city-states, all in a mutually beneficial trade alliance. Over the years, this treaty has been developed to be beneficial to all, with each town supporting the others to an extent. Until now he was going to take control of the land by occupying the main city, which is head of the treaty, breaking the chain. He was then planning on dissolving the treaty and reforming the land into a monarchy, and building it up from there, turining it into one big kingdom. The protags are trying to stop him to retain the land's independance, and protect the magic item the antag needs.

The antagonist's goal just seems really lame to me, but I can't think of anything good. Any ideas on how to spice up his ambitions would be welcome. I should point out, he is not evil, so he isn't going to be unleashing dinos from hell or anything.

 

[San Cidolfus]

If he's not evil and is out to unify a region, why not have him be the sort to band states together in order to defend against an outside threat? Perhaps it's a threat known to only a few, so his motivations are obscure to the world at large. Do that right, and it's a fine reveal when the protagonists get that far.

And you're not the only one struggling with the mojo. Just show that mojo who's boss.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

If he's not evil and is out to unify a region, why not have him be the sort to band states together in order to defend against an outside threat? Perhaps it's a threat known to only a few, so his motivations are obscure to the world at large. Do that right, and it's a fine reveal when the protagonists get that far.

And you're not the only one struggling with the mojo. Just show that mojo who's boss.

Thanks San. I don't really know what I'm looking for, maybe a good reason to stop him or something.

 

[Butterfly]

Well, one reason to stop him - If he's occupying the central city then he's holding all the trade and supply routes to ransom. He's controlling the distribution of wealth throughout these kingdoms, the supplies of essentials and ores, coal, could be everything. Maybe that's his goal, and a reason for the others to unite against him. Controlling the trade routes will have all sorts of effects right across the board from nobles who won't afford to be able to pay their soldiers, merchants who can't make their money, to farmers who can't afford to buy seeds or get a supply of them to feed the populace, right down to the common peasants who are pretty much then destined to fall into even deeper poverty.

It could even have a severe impact on the spread of disease.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

Well, one reason to stop him - If he's occupying the central city then he's holding all the trade and supply routes to ransom. He's controlling the distribution of wealth throughout these kingdoms, the supplies of essentials and ores, coal, could be everything. Maybe that's his goal, and a reason for the others to unite against him. Controlling the trade routes will have all sorts of effects right across the board from nobles who won't afford to be able to pay their soldiers, merchants who can't make their money, to farmers who can't afford to buy seeds or get a supply of them to feed the populace, right down to the common peasants who are pretty much then destined to fall into even deeper poverty.

It could even have a severe impact on the spread of disease.

Gooooood, I'm thinking now. Maybe he wants to use it as a base to start a conquest. Thank you good and virtuous Butterfly.

 

[Devor]

Until now he was going to take control of the land by occupying the main city, which is head of the treaty, breaking the chain. He was then planning on dissolving the treaty and reforming the land into a monarchy, and building it up from there, turining it into one big kingdom. The protags are trying to stop him to retain the land's independance, and protect the magic item the antag needs.

I can see why you're struggling.

It's hard to say for sure without looking at a map, but I don't see how occupying one of several city-states automatically leads to control of the whole realm. Supply routes can be diverted, and if the city-states are supporting each other, there's very few resources so vital that one region could hold the others hostage. The only way I see your antagonist seizing control of naturally independent city-states is through the threat of a bigger army or possibly, as someone mentioned, promising protection from someone else. That is, pretty much by racketeering.

That changes, though, if you give your region a bit more political history. If they used to be one kingdom, people can be convinced to return to being one kingdom. If the city-states have a history of corruption, people can be convinced that it's worth bypassing their authority. If your antagonist had a grand scheme to solve big problems, like promising to build trains or aqueducts to connect the city-states, I could see that working as well.

But he needs to make the case for building a kingdom, even if that case amounts to "Do it or I destroy you." Once you understand that motivation, you have a framework for understanding his actions.

Me, I'd go with two or three motivations to make his character stronger.

 

[MAndreas]

It sounds like the antag's not evil per se, but every villian is the hero of his own story- so maybe he thinks he's not evil, but his plan for unifying the city states would crush the independance of them- thus he's evil in their eyes.

The biggest work around as I see it, is that often smaller city-states are stronger when grouped together. So you need to make it very clear that the opposite is true, that unifying them will actually destroy them. Could there be an ancient magic reason why they can't be under one rule? Something one of your protogs know, but no one else believes? That way the protogs are not only fighting the antag- but general population as well.

Just thinking

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

I can see why you're struggling.

It's hard to say for sure without looking at a map, but I don't see how occupying one of several city-states automatically leads to control of the whole realm. Supply routes can be diverted, and if the city-states are supporting each other, there's very few resources so vital that one region could hold the others hostage. The only way I see your antagonist seizing control of naturally independent city-states is through the threat of a bigger army or possibly, as someone mentioned, promising protection from someone else. That is, pretty much by racketeering.

That changes, though, if you give your region a bit more political history. If they used to be one kingdom, people can be convinced to return to being one kingdom. If the city-states have a history of corruption, people can be convinced that it's worth bypassing their authority. If your antagonist had a grand scheme to solve big problems, like promising to build trains or aqueducts to connect the city-states, I could see that working as well.

But he needs to make the case for building a kingdom, even if that case amounts to "Do it or I destroy you." Once you understand that motivation, you have a framework for understanding his actions.

Me, I'd go with two or three motivations to make his character stronger.

The big city he's after is the commercial and economic powerhouse, but also the head of the treaty, therefore if he controls it the other towns can't move against it without rebelling.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

It sounds like the antag's not evil per se, but every villian is the hero of his own story- so maybe he thinks he's not evil, but his plan for unifying the city states would crush the independance of them- thus he's evil in their eyes.

The biggest work around as I see it, is that often smaller city-states are stronger when grouped together. So you need to make it very clear that the opposite is true, that unifying them will actually destroy them. Could there be an ancient magic reason why they can't be under one rule? Something one of your protogs know, but no one else believes? That way the protogs are not only fighting the antag- but general population as well.

Just thinking

Maybe the antag is seriously overestimating his abilities, therefore siezing political control would only lead the land into chaos.
Thanks people, this is helping.

 

[Devor]

The big city he's after is the commercial and economic powerhouse, but also the head of the treaty, therefore if he controls it the other towns can't move against it without rebelling.

I don't really understand, but I don't think that makes any sense. An "economics powerhouse" can't really exist without mass production. If it's a trade center, it would be much more dependent on the other cities than they are on it. And what kind of a treaty would give this one city the power to make them into a monarchy? If they are sovereign city-states, it doesn't make sense for them to have signed such a document.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

I don't really understand, but I don't think that makes any sense. An "economics powerhouse" can't really exist without mass production. If it's a trade center, it would be much more dependent on the other cities than they are on it. And what kind of a treaty would give this one city the power to make them into a monarchy? If they are sovereign city-states, it doesn't make sense for them to have signed such a document.

They aren't exactly sovereign city states, they're just a group of towns more or less governed from the big city by a council of representatives. They all are fairly dependent on each other. Originally the antag was going to scrap the treaty, and subdue the other towns by various means, but as you can tell I'm starting to lose the plot now.

 

[Butterfly]

Aidan - I have been thinking about this item you have mentioned..

What is this magical item that the antagonist needs?

Why does he need it and what does it do?

What is the reason as to why it is being kept from him?

Who is keeping it from him?

And, what is the danger of him acquiring it?

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

Aidan - I have been thinking about this item you have mentioned..

What is this magical item that the antagonist needs?

Why does he need it and what does it do?

What is the reason as to why it is being kept from him?

Who is keeping it from him?

And, what is the danger of him acquiring it?

This is embarrasing, but I suppose I was 14 when I thought it up. It was a medallion owned by the protagonist, which had the power to grant protection, but nobody knows how to awake it. For obvious cheesy, cliched reasons I'm trying to think of a different power. I'm toying with the idea of it giving protection in the sense that you can travel to different elemental planes safely with it, or protection from magic, but I'm thinking of just getting a brand new item.

A more recent idea is that it could be a magical seal used validate orders, maybe in terms of politics, or even religion. Whatever it is the antag wants it, and the protag is stuck with it. A lot of my ideas are still evolving due to struggling to tie all the loose ends up.

 

[Butterfly]

Don't be embarrassed...

If no one can awaken it then maybe it's a key to some dark ancient secret lost in rumour and legends.

I think that when you work out exactly what it is and why it is so important, then your other issues with the plot will all tie in together.

 

[Queshire]

How about it lets the user reshape the land? I mean, nothing's more useful for getting people to listen to you then being able to reroute a river through their living room.

 

[BeigePalladin]

I don't really understand, but I don't think that makes any sense. An "economics powerhouse" can't really exist without mass production. If it's a trade center, it would be much more dependent on the other cities than they are on it. And what kind of a treaty would give this one city the power to make them into a monarchy? If they are sovereign city-states, it doesn't make sense for them to have signed such a document.

this. If they are independant states, then occupying one would not give you power over the others (you might be able to inconvinience them, but that's about it), but may very likely - if it does disrupt their buisness - cause them to send armies to reclaim the state for it's previous owners.

as Devor said, who in their right mind would ever sign a treaty whereby they agree that one state can subsume them into another state at a whim. I could understad the treaty making them hesitant to attack if this was a legal change of rulers and/or the new ruler did not intend to then concour the other states, but it appears to be neither. Since the person being attacked does not hold to the treaty, then there is no logical reason for the other states too.

so, I'd suggest looking for more reasons why they can't attack (bu not ones that would make them attack out of desperation and/or make seazing the main state rather than all of them in order a meaningless gesture in the long run; eg invincible army, mind control magic, etc). Maybe he struck during a diplomatic/trade confrence and holds the heads of the other states hostage, as well as the state? It gives protection, and a reason to get involved.

as for motive to move against this guy, he's taken over a country and plans to subsume others under his rule; that is already, a highly justifiable reason for why someone would try and stop him. Really, tacking any more on there makes you seem desperate for him to be detested by all - which works against the fact that as you said he's not evil.

Last quick question; you mention he needs to obtain a magic item to take over the other states - care to elaborate? as right now this is looking to be a non-sequitor fetch quest to some pretty intresting background, and I'm wondering if the maguffin is needed, or if the plot could run with the heroes straight up working agaisnt the usurper rather than going on a treasure hunt.

 

[Saigonnus]

It could be that the "main" city is the fulcrum of the military might in the region. Each city-state would likely have their own units of soldiers under the local duke/lord or whatever, but the main city could have enough to take on any 3 or 4 city-states and not even blink... might makes right is definitely something medieval Europe had going for it. It would also offer merchants a measure of protection for trading their goods within the city instead of in the smaller towns; where the constabulatory may not be as effective or maybe even corrupt.

It would give the MC a reason beyond it being the center of trade to take control of it... control that much military might and it could act as a catalyst among the smaller city-states to join the side of the MC without it affecting trade in the slightest.

As for the magic item, it may not be necessary unless for some reason it will make the chief antagonist weaker or the MC stronger so they have a better chance of taking on the bad guy.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

this. If they are independant states, then occupying one would not give you power over the others (you might be able to inconvinience them, but that's about it), but may very likely - if it does disrupt their buisness - cause them to send armies to reclaim the state for it's previous owners.

as Devor said, who in their right mind would ever sign a treaty whereby they agree that one state can subsume them into another state at a whim. I could understad the treaty making them hesitant to attack if this was a legal change of rulers and/or the new ruler did not intend to then concour the other states, but it appears to be neither. Since the person being attacked does not hold to the treaty, then there is no logical reason for the other states too.

so, I'd suggest looking for more reasons why they can't attack (bu not ones that would make them attack out of desperation and/or make seazing the main state rather than all of them in order a meaningless gesture in the long run; eg invincible army, mind control magic, etc). Maybe he struck during a diplomatic/trade confrence and holds the heads of the other states hostage, as well as the state? It gives protection, and a reason to get involved.

as for motive to move against this guy, he's taken over a country and plans to subsume others under his rule; that is already, a highly justifiable reason for why someone would try and stop him. Really, tacking any more on there makes you seem desperate for him to be detested by all - which works against the fact that as you said he's not evil.

Last quick question; you mention he needs to obtain a magic item to take over the other states - care to elaborate? as right now this is looking to be a non-sequitor fetch quest to some pretty intresting background, and I'm wondering if the maguffin is needed, or if the plot could run with the heroes straight up working agaisnt the usurper rather than going on a treasure hunt.

This treaty doesn't mean that the towns can be subsumed or politically altered in any way other than by their respective lords. Effectively it just establishes trade rights. The main city is the most formidable military power, but relies on the surrounding towns for support, while they in turn rely on it for protection etc.

I'm not really looking for the antag to be universally detested, it just isn't easy for me to work out how much resonance I want to give him in terms of after-effects and the like.

As for the business with the item, the antag is just a guy with a few connections here and there, not much offensive power. Therefore he wants this item which is either a - going to give him imunity of some kind from retaliation, or b - going to give him secretly false authority, like a "lost" seal allowing him to forge documents and disrupt the peace.

 

[arbiter117]

Maybe the treaty isn't benefiting everyone, or at least some people don't think it is. Maybe the treaty is restricting trade to between those cities only and the antagonist wants to get in on some trading biz with some other country. He tries to do so illegally, but he gets caught and put in jail for a long period of time and his business goes down the drain and his wife and kids starve to death.

So when he gets out of prison he wants to make a few changes. Taking over other cities would allow him to control the markets a little easier and control the local police and allow him to get into that trade biz with the outside world.

 

[Aidan of the tavern]

Maybe the treaty isn't benefiting everyone, or at least some people don't think it is. Maybe the treaty is restricting trade to between those cities only and the antagonist wants to get in on some trading biz with some other country. He tries to do so illegally, but he gets caught and put in jail for a long period of time and his business goes down the drain and his wife and kids starve to death.

So when he gets out of prison he wants to make a few changes. Taking over other cities would allow him to control the markets a little easier and control the local police and allow him to get into that trade biz with the outside world.

Thats not half bad arbiter, thanks. I'll think about that.