How badly the writing have to be

[Charles T. Forests]

How badly would you be able to go to put off a reader.

GRUUUUGH! In soft-skin villages, they always grunt about how each warrior has own tale to tell. But what if there only ONE tale, told by different warriors around different war-fires? HAH! Like when whole orc clan sees same battle, but each warrior remembers different glory! Some see blood spray, others see axes swing, others hear battle screams! Makes whole thing MORE MIGHTY when you hear it from many mouths! Like pieces of fresh meat making whole beast! THAT what makes good story-telling, YES! WAAAGH!


If this was the POV of a ORC character chapter would you stop reading?

 

[pmmg]

I have sometimes wondered about the orcs, say in Helms Deep, who walked at the back of the line, never got to the front, and it was over before they got started. What tales do they tell?

I dont think a POV character alone can cause one to turn off to a scene. Its all in the execution.

Reading this, and many of the other posts you started, I am going skip past this and say...you need to get your own feel for this. The best way to do that is go and review the crap out of other peoples stuff. You read enough bad writing and it becomes easy to recognize it. You try to correct and explain it to others, and you become skilled at understanding and avoiding it.

 

[Charles T. Forests]

I have sometimes wondered about the orcs, say in Helms Deep, who walked at the back of the line, never got to the front, and it was over before they got started. What tales do they tell?

I dont think a POV character alone can cause one to turn off to a scene. Its all in the execution.

Reading this, and many of the other posts you started, I am going skip past this and say...you need to get your own feel for this. The best way to do that is go and review the crap out of other peoples stuff. You read enough bad writing and it becomes easy to recognize it. You try to correct and explain it to others, and you become skilled at understanding and avoiding it.

Im sorry to annoy you with all my questions I have been greatful for your replies. I don't feel like there is a book like the one I want I've tried to find them but I also know that I'm doing alot of what people on tube, reviews, advices say not to do? But then also they say do what you feel? So I do keep putting posts that I can find a middle ground while I learn as well. I guess I have put a few to many though lol

 

[Orc Knight]

I don't know if I should be offended or not. Might check with the Geico caveman on this too.

If you're writing from a dumb brute view, like pmmg says, it's all in the execution of it.

 

[Charles T. Forests]

I don't know if I should be offended or not. Might check with the Geico caveman on this too.

If you're writing from a dumb brute view, like pmmg says, it's all in the execution of it.

Do you like any of the styles? because you said it depends on the execution but I dont know what that means I want to get to know before I start my draft.

 

[Orc Knight]

It's all in how you write it. That's what the execution is. Unless you've picked up a headsmen or guillotine lately. Barring that, you have to write it first.

As for style, it's just as previously mentioned, a sort of brute speech, primitive, stupid or the like. The You No Take Candle trope. It's not so much a style as it's meant to come across as the orc not being the brightest while attempting to wax philosophical about battle. Set a scene with it and write it out.

 

[Penpilot]

Im sorry to annoy you with all my questions I have been greatful for your replies. I don't feel like there is a book like the one I want I've tried to find them but I also know that I'm doing alot of what people on tube, reviews, advices say not to do? But then also they say do what you feel? So I do keep putting posts that I can find a middle ground while I learn as well. I guess I have put a few to many though lol

When in doubt, follow your own gut.

I always say I'd rather fail on my own terms than follow someone else's advice blindly and succeed. Why? If I consciously make choices and fail, I'll learn from it. I'll understand the thought process behind the decisions, and if not now, eventually, I'll understand why it didn't work, and I probably won't make that mistake again.

If I follow blindly and succeed without understanding, then I won't be able to duplicate the success. I won't understand why something worked.

And then, there's the worst of both worlds, I follow blindly, and it fails, and I learn nothing.

Sometimes you just have to shrug and just go for it and accept the consequences. I once wrote a story from the POV of a giant, mutant potato that had gain sentience.

 

[Prince of Spires]

If this was the POV of a ORC character chapter would you stop reading?

For me it would probably depend on where in the story it occurs. It's hard to read. Which means that if this was the opening chapter I would probably put the book down and stop reading. On the other hand, if you've shown me your writing and I like it and this happens halfway through the book, I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt for a chapter.

There are a few other points to consider. One is that a single character rarely monologues for whole paragraphs. Which means that there would be other stuff written in between what you've written now. That can break it up and make it easier to read. There's descriptions, actions and so on.

The other is that of the "translator". That is, the idea that the writer is no so much making it up, but rather translating an old text he found to the reader so the reader can make sense of it. It's how you can have 2 elves speak to each other in elvish and still have the reader understand. Or why you can use expressions and terms from our world in your fantasy setting. If that's the case, then when you're in the Orc's POV, you could tone it down a bit and make the sentences a bit more gramatically correct, while still sticking to the idea. It would make it easier to read.

 

[Charles T. Forests]

For me it would probably depend on where in the story it occurs. It's hard to read. Which means that if this was the opening chapter I would probably put the book down and stop reading. On the other hand, if you've shown me your writing and I like it and this happens halfway through the book, I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt for a chapter.

There are a few other points to consider. One is that a single character rarely monologues for whole paragraphs. Which means that there would be other stuff written in between what you've written now. That can break it up and make it easier to read. There's descriptions, actions and so on.

The other is that of the "translator". That is, the idea that the writer is no so much making it up, but rather translating an old text he found to the reader so the reader can make sense of it. It's how you can have 2 elves speak to each other in elvish and still have the reader understand. Or why you can use expressions and terms from our world in your fantasy setting. If that's the case, then when you're in the Orc's POV, you could tone it down a bit and make the sentences a bit more gramatically correct, while still sticking to the idea. It would make it easier to read.

Thank you for your reply my story each character and chapters by there own recollection and monologues so I could tone it down just need it to be distinctive. I'll be doing alot of trail and error. Don't know if anyone will like it still though hahah

 

[Karlin]

In my mind, the best example of writing in different voices is Mark Twain. Read Huckleberry Finn.

I'll make a general statement about writing that will totally turn me off. If I notice the writing too much, something is wrong. What I mean by this is that the writing feels forced, and I end up paying attention to the writing itself, rather than to the content. "Oh, he/she is putting in some description of character X now. Author feels like he ought to do this..."

Maybe you are struggling too much. Flow with the Dao. Write .

edit: sometimes I wonder if we write too much, and should spend more time TELLING stories.

 

[Charles T. Forests]

In my mind, the best example of writing in different voices is Mark Twain. Read Huckleberry Finn.

I'll make a general statement about writing that will totally turn me off. If I notice the writing too much, something is wrong. What I mean by this is that the writing feels forced, and I end up paying attention to the writing itself, rather than to the content. "Oh, he/she is putting in some description of character X now. Author feels like he ought to do this..."

Maybe you are struggling too much. Flow with the Dao. Write .

edit: sometimes I wonder if we write too much, and should spend more time TELLING stories.

I actually struggle with the telling part lol my best preferred writing is detailed descriptions without dialogue but I think that these examples are just tester/ feelers because this book is all about perspectives and opions and how each race is discriminated and stereotyped so I want to show how as the orc sound daft they are actually most creative

 

[Dylan]

How badly would you be able to go to put off a reader.

GRUUUUGH! In soft-skin villages, they always grunt about how each warrior has own tale to tell. But what if there only ONE tale, told by different warriors around different war-fires? HAH! Like when whole orc clan sees same battle, but each warrior remembers different glory! Some see blood spray, others see axes swing, others hear battle screams! Makes whole thing MORE MIGHTY when you hear it from many mouths! Like pieces of fresh meat making whole beast! THAT what makes good story-telling, YES! WAAAGH!


If this was the POV of a ORC character chapter would you stop reading?

This orc POV is way over the top. The constant "GRUUUGH" and "WAAAGH" stuff feels like a caricature, not a character. It’s exhausting to read, and if the whole chapter is like this, I’d probably nope out fast. The concept of multiple perspectives on one battle is cool, but the execution here is trying too hard to be "orc-ish." Dial it back, focus on the story, and let the orc’s personality shine through without beating us over the head with it. Less grunt, more grit.

 

[Charles T. Forests]

In soft-skin villages, they say each warrior has their own tale. But what if there's only ONE great story, told by different warriors around different fires? Like when our clan witnesses a battle - each warrior sees it their own way! Some watch the blood spray, others follow the swing of axes, and some remember the battle cries. Each telling makes the story stronger, like pieces of meat making a whole beast. That's what makes a tale worth telling!

Something More like this is acceptable.

 

[Dylan]

In soft-skin villages, they say each warrior has their own tale. But what if there's only ONE great story, told by different warriors around different fires? Like when our clan witnesses a battle - each warrior sees it their own way! Some watch the blood spray, others follow the swing of axes, and some remember the battle cries. Each telling makes the story stronger, like pieces of meat making a whole beast. That's what makes a tale worth telling!

Something More like this is acceptable.

Yeah, this is way better. It keeps the orc’s voice and perspective intact without going overboard with the grunts and growls. The imagery is strong, and the idea of a shared story told through different eyes is compelling. It’s gritty and authentic without being exhausting. This version works, it’s got personality and depth. Stick with this tone, and you’re golden.

 

[pmmg]

Im sorry to annoy you with all my questions I have been greatful for your replies. I don't feel like there is a book like the one I want I've tried to find them but I also know that I'm doing alot of what people on tube, reviews, advices say not to do? But then also they say do what you feel? So I do keep putting posts that I can find a middle ground while I learn as well. I guess I have put a few to many though lol

I am not annoyed. I am trying to steer you to where you will find the most help, given my assessment of where you are at.

You are trying to be further along than you actually are. Without some stories behind you, all those YouTuber's and forum posters are just words and disconnected advice. Conflicting messages, go with what you feel, but dont do X,Y and Z. What if I feel like doing X.Y and Z?

Then comes a lot of 'It depends'....Well, it depends, if you do this, than you can do X and Y....

Wasted space without first getting a ball in play.


All the advice you need is right here....

1) Write everyday 2) finish it and 3) don't seek feedback until you are finished.


If you want the fastest path to write better and gain a 'writers vision' for what really works when and what doesn't, then there is no faster path than reviewing the crap out of other people stuff.

Popping up a paragraph here and a paragraph there, and asking...do you like my voice, or my characterization or whatever.... There is not enough to judge and there is no context. Like doing one set of pushups and heading off to the mirror to see the results. You have to put more into it than that.

If that story you want is not written yet, then there is a bit of road between where you are now, and having it written. 10000 words gets you in to a lane.

 

[Charles T. Forests]

I am not annoyed. I am trying to steer you to where you will find the most help, given my assessment of where you are at.

You are trying to be further along than you actually are. Without some stories behind you, all those YouTuber's and forum posters are just words and disconnected advice. Conflicting messages, go with what you feel, but dont do X,Y and Z. What if I feel like doing X.Y and Z?

Then comes a lot of 'It depends'....Well, it depends, if you do this, than you can do X and Y....

Wasted space without first getting a ball in play.


All the advice you need is right here....

1) Write everyday 2) finish it and 3) don't seek feedback until you are finished.


If you want the fastest path to write better and gain a 'writers vision' for what really works when and what doesn't, then there is no faster path than reviewing the crap out of other people stuff.

Popping up a paragraph here and a paragraph there, and asking...do you like my voice, or my characterization or whatever.... There is not enough to judge and there is no context. Like doing one set of pushups and heading off to the mirror to see the results. You have to put more into it than that.

If that story you want is not written yet, then there is a bit of road between where you are now, and having it written. 10000 words gets you in to a lane.

Thank you again. Yeah I am a little strange though I do believe alot would agree they would over think to much before the start. I am starting on the 1st after that no feedback till the end then il ask millions of more questions but for now at least I feel satisfied I have most of my answers because of everyone on here and YOU. I just didn't want to do what I did last time I attempted this were I wrote 90k words of it then realised that it was all wrong cause I didn't get all the people where they was, it was in 3rd person ect. I didn't even know you could do multiple Pov so I have been putting stuff just to see my vision as clear as possible because the writer is sometimes to close to there work to see the flaws. But I feel super confident this time and that's why this last 2 few has been so up lifting after a year and a bit scratching my head for answers other than do what you want. Hahaha thank you know one knows how truly happy it feels with help.

 

[pmmg]

Yes, you are asking the question everyone asks...Is this worthy? Cause I don't want to spend a lot of effort if its not.

Well....the answer is, you have to spend a lot of effort before you can get to worthy. I wrote two whole novels before I sought to publish, and my third spent many years in editing. Everyone has tales like that.

90K words is a lot, but its also in the range of, I would toss them all, and rewrite if they were what was hurting my novel. I am sure my cutting room floor is littered in words far greater than 90K.

Its hard to be at the beginning and seeing all the work and thinking....I'm gonna do this, even if its wasted. But no one who has done that looks back and thinks the ones that did not pan out were wasted. Those are still cherished, cause those are the one that gave you the skill. Like all things, we dare to try, and if we try and fail, and try and fail...and do that a hundred times, we have never failed, we just moved further along in our journey. Maybe we will learn this writing thing is not really for us, and that's okay, there are a million other things you can be great at instead. Some will find that it really is in them, and over time it will start to shine.

But know one knows without stepping out into the land of risk and peril and giving it their go.

The benefit here is some are further along in the journey than you....and some have insight to offer, and some are good at cutting through and getting to it.

I've got a lot of practice saying things aimed at helping other writers. I hope it is useful to you.

 

[Avery Moore]

I have sometimes wondered about the orcs, say in Helms Deep, who walked at the back of the line, never got to the front, and it was over before they got started. What tales do they tell?

All the people in front of me turned around and started running... So I turned around and started running... And then I got squashed by a tree.

 

[JBCrowson]

All the people in front of me turned around and started running... So I turned around and started running... And then I got squashed by a tree.

That was one of the bits from the movies of LoTR that bothered me most - the cutting out of the Huorns.

 

[Avery Moore]

That was one of the bits from the movies of LoTR that bothered me most - the cutting out of the Huorns.

I think they were in the extended version, but they were never actually referred to as "Huorns", so people probably just assumed they were Ents.