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How to refer to characters' parents?

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I've come across a bit of an issue in a scene of Winter's Queen I'm drafting out. Basically, the father and uncle of the MC go to visit their elderly mother prior to heading into Faerie via Stonehenge. I'm having trouble figuring out how to refer to the mother in the narration. The scene is from the POV of the MC's father, Vincent, but the aforesaid uncle is Vincent's brother. Would it be weird to refer to their mother in the narration as "their mother", or should I use "his mother", or maybe her name? So far I've been using "their mother", but it seems to not quite work. For comparison's sake, when writing the teenage MC's POV, Vincent is always referred to in the narration as "her dad". But adult characters are different than teens, so what works for one might not work for the other. What do you guys think?
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
Assuming this is from 3rd person POV, I think "His mother" or "Vincent's Mother" is fine. "Their mother" would work too. It all depends on the flow, iMHO.
 
Hi,

Who's head are you in? If the narration voice is Vincent's POV and third person then it would have to be "his mother". You can't use "Vincent's mother" because that immediately takes your narrator out of Vincent's headspace.

Cheers, Greg.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
"Vincent's mother" is the one phrase I never intended to use. I keep thinking of the Harry Potter books, and the way that, when Harry sees manifestations of his parents, the narration switches back and forth between "his mother/his father" and "Lily/James Potter". That always seemed a bit odd to me, but one or the other also strikes me as weird.
 
If you're focused in on Vincent, "his mother" generally trumps "their mother," although the latter may see use when you're speaking in relation to both of them. Her name probably won't see use.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
Hi,

You can't use "Vincent's mother" because that immediately takes your narrator out of Vincent's headspace.

Cheers, Greg.

We're going to have to disagree on this point. We're in Vincent's head space, but with 3rd person, we are a layer removed. In addition, we're allowed to move from deep inside his head narration to a more objective narration, like moving from a close up to a wide shot in a movie.

"His mother" and "Vincent's mother" are in my eyes equivalent. Also, in strictly practical terms, there will be times where "his mother" won't work. Imagine starting a chapter with "his mother." The reader won't know who's mother is being reference, and it can get worse if multiple mothers are involved.
 
It's very tricky. (One moment you wish you used 1st person; then it would have been almost all "Mother.")

I'd say to use mostly "his mother" (or "their mother" in some cases, and I agree "Vincent's mother" is way too clumsy) and look for the occasional time you have some excuse to back out and use her name or "the professor" (or whatever she is) to give just a little variety. But only a little.

"James Potter" always worked for me because the Potter books are single-VP but not deep VP, they're got a lot of stand-back-and-enjoy-the-look-of-it to them. For that matter, Harry's parents have always been more names than people to him, so it fits.

I may have used a form of that in SHADOWED (which is deep VP) in that my MC's dad was always "his father" with an occasional "Ian Schuman" when he's in his more aloof modes. Never just "Ian," though-- though a more social story with a lot of characters and relatives might have had to bite that bullet because it would have just have to keep it all clear. But not for my book, and it seems not for yours.
 
Hi Penpilot,

Actually you can start a chapter that way. "His mother was washing the dishes when Vincent came downstairs."

And I still believe that the term "Vincent's mother" removes you further from Vincent's headspace. When I as a reader read a book the prose matters in as much as it allows me to enjoy it, and part of that enjoyment is in identifying with the MC etc. In third person part of the way in which I am allowed to do that is by having access to the MC's thoughts. Since no one as far as I know thinks of themselves by their name or as someone else both "his" and "Vincent's" remove me a distance from that character. However "Vincent's removes me further as it specifically states that I (the reader) am not Vincent. "His" is a much more generic term and one which I expect has become almost invisible through use like "said". So in using it it is less jarring for me as the reader if I'm imagining I'm Vincent - or rather that Vincent is me.

Generally I try to restrict the use of my main character's name to parts of the text where I as the narrator am already viewing the action from a greater distance - description of action etc.

Cheers, Greg.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
Hi Penpilot,

Actually you can start a chapter that way. "His mother was washing the dishes when Vincent came downstairs."

When you isolate it like that it's obvious, but when other characters enter the scene, things become a little more tricky.

His mother was washing the dishes when Vincent came downstairs. Frank sat at the table reading the Times, speaking with his mother about stock market.

OR

His mother was washing the dishes when Vincent came downstairs. Vincent listened to Frank talk to his mother about the stock market.

OR, to make it clear.

His mother was washing the dishes when Vincent came downstairs. His mother listened to Frank talk about the stockmarket.

It starts to become a juggling match of making sure you got the right nouns precede the pronoun, and to me that's just constantly forcing your writing into a shape that may not flow naturally. Over the course of a scene it's going to be adding words that would be unnecessary if "Vincent's mother" was used instead. And to me it's just over thinking things and making things unnecessarily complicated for the writer. I doubt the average reader will even notice.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Well, this scene shouldn't be a problem with what you mentioned, Penpilot. The only three people in the scene are Vincent, his brother Dom, and their mother.
 

A. E. Lowan

Forum Mom
Leadership
In our WIP write deep POV, and have we have our older FMC, Winter (who is about 24) and her father Colin. She is an adult child and her relationship with her father is strained, and so this comes across in the way she thinks and speaks. When she directly addresses Colin, she calls him "Papa," but she never thinks of him as "her Papa," only "her father" or occasionally as "Colin." This doesn't remove the reader from her headspace - it takes them even more intimately inside to places even she might not be aware of.
 

Ruby

Auror
Hi Ireth, I've encountered a similar problem in my two WIP's.

In the first chapter of the first book, the MC is in class. I discovered I had referred to her teacher in four ways: Miss Blank, Miss First Name Blank, just by her first name and as "the teacher." The story is written in the third person.

I'm also not sure how to overcome this problem as the teacher is an important character and her own backstory is central to the prequel, which is the other WIP. In other words, she is the MC in the prequel and is a common link to both books. However, interestingly enough, I've given her another name in the prequel as she's a time traveller and I reckoned she'd want to be in disguise. :confused:

I also have a potential assassin in the prequel who is in disguise. As the reader knows this, I use her real name in the narrative but some characters use her alias in direct speech, while her accomplices, of course, know her real name and use that.

Hmm. I can now see why I've been getting writer's block! :eek:
 
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Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
I would use "his mother" if it's appropriate, and "their mother" when it's appropriate. Let me try some examples.

Vincent picked up his mother's frail hand, careful not to squeeze--just enough to wake her. "Mother? Are you feeling better?"

Her eyes opened but remained unfocused. "Brother and I came to talk to you. We wanted to hear the story about Stonehenge you used to tell us when we were young."

Brother (because I don't know his name), sat down in the other chair, hesitant, because it always upset him to see their mother in such a weak state. Jane Janson (because I don't know the mother's name), once the pride of Freemont High, prom queen twice, lay in a hospital bed, barely weighing eighty pounds and breathed with the aid of machines.

His mother was a shadow of the woman she used to be and Vincent felt her time waning every day he spent with her. Whatever the gods had in store for her, he wished they'd let his mother find her rest...

Okay hope that helps.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I like that example, CM. I think I mentioned the brother's name in a previous post -- it's Dominic, though everyone calls him Dom, and that's what I use in the narration. Their mother's name is Emily Hawk.
 

Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
Yeah, sorry. I can't remember names well. I do hope the examples helped you to determine how and when to use her name, "his mother" and "their mother". I think all are appropriate, depending on the context and mostly, I wanted to show it, rather than saying simply, "Use all three, they're all good." Because they are.. but only in the appropriate context.
 
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