• Welcome to the Fantasy Writing Forums. Register Now to join us!

Is this idea too "Deus Ex Machina"?

Mindfire

Istar
I thought about including as a worldbuilding element something called a Tempest, which is basically a spontaneous supernatural storm that can transport travelers great distances across the world at random. The idea's most immediate use is to explain the presence of human civilizations beyond the known world, but it also offers other narrative possibilities, like transporting characters to entirely new continents, or bringing members of alien civilizations into contact with humans. A very useful tool. But is the idea a bit too obviously DEM or might it be regarded as... this? What do you guys think?
 

Scribble

Archmage
It strikes me that the odds of a "supernatural" phenomena randomly dropping you somewhere safe, gently, or at a safe altitude might be hard for the reader to accept. If there is an intelligence behind it, it doesn't need to be understood, but it would be assumed to be there. If the destinations are very "plot-appropriate" then you'd have many questions about this. If it's never explained, the reader may feel let down.

There might be ways around this, it just struck me is all. I like the idea. Maybe some advanced civilizations learn to harness it, control it, or summon it? Otherwise, it's random, but that brings with it risk.
 
Last edited:

Mindfire

Istar
It strikes me that the odds of a "natural" phenomena dropping you somewhere safe, gently, or at a safe altitude might be hard for the reader to accept. If there is an intelligence behind it, it doesn't need to be understood, but it must be assumed to be there. If the destinations are very "plot-appropriate" then you'd have many questions about this. If it's never explained, the reader will always wonder about it.

Well, if you really want to get into it, tempests aren't entirely random. Since nature is controlled and regulated by divine forces, you could say they're "providential." It's that sort of thing where, when it's happening, it seems completely random or even unfortunate, but in hindsight is clearly a good thing.
 
Nothing wrong with supernatural tempests. They're not exactly original, but I can't criticize since I have one :p

Just come up with a mechanic for the machina. As long as it's figured out, then whatever you do is just part of your physics.
 

Addison

Auror
If you do it right, it won't be DEM. In ancient greece they lowered a guy in a toga on a painted sun to stop the conflict because the writers either took advantage of their gods' presence or couldn't think of any other ending. But through out the work said god never made an entrance, made itself known, not even a mention. As long as you let this storm make a cameo sometime at the beginning or bring some sort of conflict so the reader knows it exists, then it's alright.
 

Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
Unless you used this Tempest to solve major story problems, it's not DEM. Eg. The bad guy is about to triumph and suddenly and randomly the tempest zaps them away without anything done, like being summoned, by the good guy. If it gets people into trouble, it's not solving a problem so it's not DEM. Example Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz.
 
Last edited:

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
Make it part of the landscape:

Every twenty years comes a twenty day period when the Tempests can come. Be wary, less you be snatched to some far off land. Something every farmboy, sailor, and merchant knows.

Have a character or three who actively worries about being snatched during 'Tempest Time'. Maybe that charcter or another has a father or grandfather who was snatched from some distant kingdom.

Perhaps there are magicians or scientists seeking to take advantage of these Tempests.

-0-0-0-0-0-

I do have something vaguely similiar on my primary world: the Time of Passage, when the Demon Star looms in the sky. A period when mutants and magicians are born, entire cities descend into maddness or enchanted slumber, or any of a hundred other wonders...as long as the Demon Star is present.

At the time of my tales, the Demon Star has been gone for a century and a half (it used to show up every half century, give or take). But that is slated to change...
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
I agree with Addison. Whether it is DEM or not will all come down to how you use it. There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea.
 
It would be interessant for someone to be transported in the middle of roch and being merged with, dying in the process. Later generations discover his body in perfect state while mining or after some earthquake torn the land open.
As it was said, done right, can be a very good plot device and not DEM at all.
 

Mindfire

Istar
Oh, I forgot to mention. These tempests only occur at sea, specifically the outer sea called the Tethys, which is roughly equivalent to the Atlantic Ocean, but theoretically infinite.
 
that changes a lot. in this case, I wouldn't think it is that much DEM. But I suppose one cannot goes into the Tempest to try to get to some specific place on purpose and that the Tempest is always avoided/feared save by the most adventurous and mad.
 

Mindfire

Istar
that changes a lot. in this case, I wouldn't think it is that much DEM. But I suppose one cannot goes into the Tempest to try to get to some specific place on purpose.

Well, you could try. But you'd need some powerful magic to attempt it.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
As a worldbuilding technique I think it's okay. As a plot device I would be very hesitant.
 

Scribble

Archmage
Some interesting scenarios occurred to me:

- Scientific/mystical order finds ways of trying to summon and direct the tempests, using some ancient large Stargate-esque portal. They decipher the writings of the "ancients" to do this.
- Natural or "wilder" mystics learn how to use their will to do the same, but without all the elaborate framework.
- Protagonist at odds with the order must turn to a wilder...
- An inexperienced "tempester" ends up sending himself to WhoKnowsWhere, thus delaying a critical action to stop X from happening. In this way it isn't a Deus Ex Machina, particularly if learning discipline and patience is part of the character arc. It could only work for a young character, an older character would not be easily forgiven for brash foolishness.

I could see a rather interesting usage, where timing and the position of the stars and discipline all contribute to the successful use of the tempest.
 

ThinkerX

Myth Weaver
Tempests limited to the ocean? And one ocean in particular?

Then, in that case, you don't have a Deus Ex Machina, you have a regional legend. EVERY mariner, fisherman, lighthouse keeper, and pilot that livesnext to or sails across this ocean is going to know about the Tempest, and likely provide contradictory lists as to which vessels were taken by it, as well as strange craft brought to their parts from afar. Bards, storytellers, and rumor mongers will all be able to recite incidents and contradictory tales of the Tempests origin.
 
Last edited:

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
Elaborate?

I just mean, for your main characters to pass through it, and wind up anywhere, you're going to create a bit of a .... let's call it an unfulfilling conflict, man v. tempest. It's spontaneous, so you can't forshadow when it happens. It's kind of neat to wind up anywhere, but if it's anywhere in particular, that's a bit convenient. If it's just a spot on the coast, any storm could've done that. If it's the bad guy who falls through it, you've got the cliche comic book villain ending, where you know he gets away and expect him to come back. It goes on.

Off the top of my head, without giving it too much thought, about the only plot point I can really see working with it is:

Main Character stands in the middle of open land. He watches as a whirlwind appears in the air and a ship falls out of the sky.... turns out the ship sailed into dangerous waters in order to escape something, or someone, with the precious cargo it has aboard, and those people are now in pursuit.

But that's using it as a starting point. Using it midway in a novel just seems like it would be too jarring.
 

Mindfire

Istar
I just mean, for your main characters to pass through it, and wind up anywhere, you're going to create a bit of a .... let's call it an unfulfilling conflict, man v. tempest. It's spontaneous, so you can't forshadow when it happens. It's kind of neat to wind up anywhere, but if it's anywhere in particular, that's a bit convenient. If it's just a spot on the coast, any storm could've done that. If it's the bad guy who falls through it, you've got the cliche comic book villain ending, where you know he gets away and expect him to come back. It goes on.

Off the top of my head, without giving it too much thought, about the only plot point I can really see working with it is:

Main Character stands in the middle of open land. He watches as a whirlwind appears in the air and a ship falls out of the sky.... turns out the ship sailed into dangerous waters in order to escape something, or someone, with the precious cargo it has aboard, and those people are now in pursuit.

But that's using it as a starting point. Using it midway in a novel just seems like it would be too jarring.

At present I really only have one narrative use for it. Three if you count legends and history. The "present" use is that it transports some of my characters over a large distance so they can meet up with another cast of characters. They're not setting out to reach the other group (they don't even know of their existence), they just kinda end up there. I may use a summoned tempest to take them back. Or I might have them trek overland instead. Depends on what seems the better story option at the time.

The two significant historical instances of tempests occurring would be a tempest used by the god Hakadosh to rescue the ancient Viranese from the Mist (Formerly human wraith-giants. I kid you not, my inspiration for them was Nazgul + Samurai Slenderman.) and send them to the southern continent of Vira, which they settled. The second instance was a storm that brought exiles from Beorgia to the same continent, where they also settled and their descendants became the Baynish people. (Their name comes from the word "banished". Yeah, yeah, terrible I know.)
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
So much of it is in execution, of course, but on the face of it, I would say that so long as it's completely, totally random - even if it's regional - I would say it's too convenient to use for something like getting your characters together, which is kind of a big important thing to be using it for.
 

Mindfire

Istar
So much of it is in execution, of course, but on the face of it, I would say that so long as it's completely, totally random - even if it's regional - I would say it's too convenient to use for something like getting your characters together, which is kind of a big important thing to be using it for.

Oh, I missed one. There's no way any of my characters can know this, but in the far past a tempest was what brought the Thervan (humanoid reptile race) invaders to the known world, where they proceeded to muck up and conquer the incredibly corrupt human society. So I guess you could say that the tempests aren't entirely random. They all seem to be orchestrated by divine purpose of some kind.
 
Top