C
Chessie
Guest
I just want to place Mr. Howey's words here. Enjoy the read. 
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The links in the article are good, too. This has been a real fear of mine. Do I try to query again now that I'm a stronger writer? Or do I just blaze my own trail and begin a career as a self-published writer? So tricky. On the one hand, I feel competent enough as a writer, know what kind of editor I'm looking to work with, what kind of finished product I'm aiming for. On the other hand, I'm hopelessly disorganized and could never actually live the life of a real author who does appearances, gives lectures, blogs endlessly, etc. and when you sign a contract, you get what you get...demands.
Is it lazy to consider that self-publishing and maintaining a single website with a blog is all I want to do? Oh, and my Facebook page. Thanks to everyone here who's liked it and comments. I haven't been on that in a while. Anyways, the most successful self-published writers tend to be very socially active, and while I'm fine with what avenues I currently explore, I get overwhelmed really easily. For instance, I'm a new real estate agent. I made it through the horrible intense class, passed the test first time, got my license, attended endless hours of training, all of which focused on the MANY facets of the job. And today, I still have no clue how to be a real estate agent. I mean, I can talk to people about houses, counsel folks on what steps lead to a happy transaction, provide a no-pressure service that doesn't make anyone feel like I'm a shark smelling blood. But I don't tamper with my company website and personalize it. I don't add anything to my real estate Facebook page (embarrassingly). I feel like I'm just a lady with a license to sell real estate, but no actual job. I mean, I hurried up and got the license because my commission on the house we HAD to buy was about $4800. I mean, why not do it? But I won't be free to really work full-time till my little guy goes to school this fall. So...if I'm already sort of failing at being a businessman at one thing...do I really have time to be a self-published writer? it feels so daunting. I know some of you guys are so behind this option, and I am too, in theory, but then my fears kick in.
A while ago, Chesterama, you mentioned your plans for self-publishing, and I'm so supportive of what you mentioned. I do hope you'll share your experience with us, or at least with me. I just know you have what it takes to publish your stories, but I'm just too scared right now to do it (I was going to begin publishing my shorts that are all edited and ready to go, because I don't really read online short stories in publications, so I didn't ever want to submit to those sorts of publications). Will you step into the pool first and tell me what the temperature is? HA!
Articles like this one are very encouraging, and I whole-heartedly believe for most writers, self-publishing smart is the best way to go. Get your craft down, compile works, hire an editor and artist, format, publish, promote, socialize, network, repeat. It all makes so much sense. but today, I didn't roll out of bed feeling like a real estate agent. I didn't think about my website. I actually don't even have access to the MLS right now because the site isn't recognizing my Mac for some reason (when it used to). So I'm doing a pretty terrible job of being a real estate agent at the moment. I think the one thing I might have going for me in writing, over real estate, is that for the last 15 years, I've pretty much written every day. I might not wake up feeling like a writer who has a job writing and is in charge of her career, but I DO wake up and think about writing most days. And if I'm not writing, I'm taking care of children and household and running around town, all while keeping things rolling around in my skull, and when I see stuff in the world that impresses me in any way, I immediately think, how can I put that into a story?
So yeah, I feel like a business failure. I can run a business into the ground by simply not maintaining whatever I should be maintaining. I have a problem focusing and prioritizing. That's the reason self-publishing feels like a bad choice for me.
However, on the converse, I don't do well with folks telling me what to do and taking away my choices, either. So...maybe self-publishing is the only choice that makes sense.
Oh do please share your thinking with me, Chesterama. I'd love to know why you made the choices you did and how you feel you can make this really work for you. Maybe I'm just letting fear get the best of me.
Is it lazy to consider that self-publishing and maintaining a single website with a blog is all I want to do? Oh, and my Facebook page. Thanks to everyone here who's liked it and comments. I haven't been on that in a while. Anyways, the most successful self-published writers tend to be very socially active, and while I'm fine with what avenues I currently explore, I get overwhelmed really easily. For instance, I'm a new real estate agent. I made it through the horrible intense class, passed the test first time, got my license, attended endless hours of training, all of which focused on the MANY facets of the job. And today, I still have no clue how to be a real estate agent. I mean, I can talk to people about houses, counsel folks on what steps lead to a happy transaction, provide a no-pressure service that doesn't make anyone feel like I'm a shark smelling blood. But I don't tamper with my company website and personalize it. I don't add anything to my real estate Facebook page (embarrassingly). I feel like I'm just a lady with a license to sell real estate, but no actual job. I mean, I hurried up and got the license because my commission on the house we HAD to buy was about $4800. I mean, why not do it? But I won't be free to really work full-time till my little guy goes to school this fall. So...if I'm already sort of failing at being a businessman at one thing...do I really have time to be a self-published writer? it feels so daunting. I know some of you guys are so behind this option, and I am too, in theory, but then my fears kick in.
A while ago, Chesterama, you mentioned your plans for self-publishing, and I'm so supportive of what you mentioned. I do hope you'll share your experience with us, or at least with me. I just know you have what it takes to publish your stories, but I'm just too scared right now to do it (I was going to begin publishing my shorts that are all edited and ready to go, because I don't really read online short stories in publications, so I didn't ever want to submit to those sorts of publications). Will you step into the pool first and tell me what the temperature is? HA!
Articles like this one are very encouraging, and I whole-heartedly believe for most writers, self-publishing smart is the best way to go. Get your craft down, compile works, hire an editor and artist, format, publish, promote, socialize, network, repeat. It all makes so much sense. but today, I didn't roll out of bed feeling like a real estate agent. I didn't think about my website. I actually don't even have access to the MLS right now because the site isn't recognizing my Mac for some reason (when it used to). So I'm doing a pretty terrible job of being a real estate agent at the moment. I think the one thing I might have going for me in writing, over real estate, is that for the last 15 years, I've pretty much written every day. I might not wake up feeling like a writer who has a job writing and is in charge of her career, but I DO wake up and think about writing most days. And if I'm not writing, I'm taking care of children and household and running around town, all while keeping things rolling around in my skull, and when I see stuff in the world that impresses me in any way, I immediately think, how can I put that into a story?
So yeah, I feel like a business failure. I can run a business into the ground by simply not maintaining whatever I should be maintaining. I have a problem focusing and prioritizing. That's the reason self-publishing feels like a bad choice for me.
However, on the converse, I don't do well with folks telling me what to do and taking away my choices, either. So...maybe self-publishing is the only choice that makes sense.
Oh do please share your thinking with me, Chesterama. I'd love to know why you made the choices you did and how you feel you can make this really work for you. Maybe I'm just letting fear get the best of me.
I agree with Mr Howey. Self-publishing has never been easier. And that doesn't matter, because all self-publishing is, is getting the thing into "print".
What's harder than ever is *selling* what you have self-published. He doesn't say a word about that. When I read through Caged Maiden's post, what I see is that she worries not about the publishing but the marketing. I'm with you, CM. I market about as well as I play lacrosse, and like you I struggle with which path to take. Especially because either path takes a huge commitment of time.
So, thanks, Mr Howey. Please write an article about how becoming a successful (let's say, selling more than a hundred books a month) author is easier than ever. I'd love to see that one.
What's harder than ever is *selling* what you have self-published. He doesn't say a word about that. When I read through Caged Maiden's post, what I see is that she worries not about the publishing but the marketing. I'm with you, CM. I market about as well as I play lacrosse, and like you I struggle with which path to take. Especially because either path takes a huge commitment of time.
So, thanks, Mr Howey. Please write an article about how becoming a successful (let's say, selling more than a hundred books a month) author is easier than ever. I'd love to see that one.
- Thread starter
- #4
C
Chessie
Guest
@Skip, he means that self-publishing is easy...which...it is thanks to computers.
The idea is that, if you package your book(s) right and have a strong backlist, the books typically sell themselves. But it takes a lot of hard work, sacrifice, and a real desire to manage your own business. Not as easy as it sounds, true. But easier than in 2009. The Indie motto is write, publish, repeat. A strong backlist is important to steering readers to your other books. Marketing/promotion for one book (more like 1-3 books) is frowned upon. An author needs a list of titles for readers to choose from and this is why it's encouraged to write a lot.
I could go on for pages as to all the small things I've been having to learn lately from quarterly taxes to crafting a good blurb. Indies are responsible for every aspect of packaging their books. What Mr. Howey means is that nowadays, we can Google for everything we need because Indie publishing has become much more accessible. If you're too poor to outsource what you need then there are countless youtube videos, online articles, books, and other authors to learn how to do certain aspect of publishing. Granted, our time is best spent writing, but self-publishing isn't for the faint of heart. It is, however, doable. I truly believe that persistence, constant learning, and elbow grease can get an Indie author far. It takes a lot of watching the market and staying knowledgeable about the business, like in any field.
@Maiden, my experience has been that shorts don't sell very well unless in collections or anthologies, and that seems to echo the experience of other authors. More readers prefer novel length works. So if you're thinking of publishing your shorts I'd put them in a collection with a bomb cover and blurb. Better even if you can tie some of them to a series.
The idea is that, if you package your book(s) right and have a strong backlist, the books typically sell themselves. But it takes a lot of hard work, sacrifice, and a real desire to manage your own business. Not as easy as it sounds, true. But easier than in 2009. The Indie motto is write, publish, repeat. A strong backlist is important to steering readers to your other books. Marketing/promotion for one book (more like 1-3 books) is frowned upon. An author needs a list of titles for readers to choose from and this is why it's encouraged to write a lot.
I could go on for pages as to all the small things I've been having to learn lately from quarterly taxes to crafting a good blurb. Indies are responsible for every aspect of packaging their books. What Mr. Howey means is that nowadays, we can Google for everything we need because Indie publishing has become much more accessible. If you're too poor to outsource what you need then there are countless youtube videos, online articles, books, and other authors to learn how to do certain aspect of publishing. Granted, our time is best spent writing, but self-publishing isn't for the faint of heart. It is, however, doable. I truly believe that persistence, constant learning, and elbow grease can get an Indie author far. It takes a lot of watching the market and staying knowledgeable about the business, like in any field.
@Maiden, my experience has been that shorts don't sell very well unless in collections or anthologies, and that seems to echo the experience of other authors. More readers prefer novel length works. So if you're thinking of publishing your shorts I'd put them in a collection with a bomb cover and blurb. Better even if you can tie some of them to a series.
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Russ
Istar
Funny I read the article differently. I don't read it as a ode to the ease and opportunity of self publishing today (he has written some of those), rather I read it as just kind of a self-mythologizing or self inflating story of "how hard things were back in the day". It is really just a piece where he is patting himself on the back for apparently swimming against the stream in 2009 or so.
I also think sk is completely right. It is technically easier than ever to get published today, but harder to make good income from that publication than it was in 2009.
I also think sk is completely right. It is technically easier than ever to get published today, but harder to make good income from that publication than it was in 2009.
- Thread starter
- #6
C
Chessie
Guest
Russ, I'm sorry that you read it that way. I post these articles to help educate other writers and I suppose they don't always work for everyone.
And actually, Skip is wrong. Sorry, buddy. I belong to 2 Indie author writing/publishing groups. There are many writers in these two groups selling enough books to pay all of their bills, and others are making part time income. I'm one of a few authors still struggling to even get a bite. But I'm still very, very new to the whole publishing aspect of my dreams and goals.
I've seen brand new authors come out swinging, sell thousands of books, and make thousands of dollars. No joke. Then I've seen authors with a list of 20 books struggling through their journey. There are various levels of authors in these groups, but the general consensus is that if, you write a book that readers want to read, package it right, and write the next one, do that over and over again, you'll start gaining readers.
There's nothing certain in this business. Hell, there's nothing certain in this life. But there ARE many, many Indie authors making a living from their craft. I wasn't publishing in 2009 so I can't compare, but I DO have firsthand experience today because I'm around these authors, work with them, learn from them, and know many of their stories.
My guess is that it's always been difficult to publish. Today, it's as easy as slapping a cover on a manuscript and uploading it to Amazon. Sure, there is way more competition now because it is so easy to publish. But hitting publish and selling books are two different beasts.
And alas, I put these articles up to help inform other writers. I'm not looking to talk bad or suspiciously about the authors of the articles. I'm simply sharing information. If you don't like the article or agree, that's fine. But if you have no firsthand knowledge of the subject either, then it's perhaps best to leave comments out that are completely untrue.
Sorry, just saying.
And actually, Skip is wrong. Sorry, buddy. I belong to 2 Indie author writing/publishing groups. There are many writers in these two groups selling enough books to pay all of their bills, and others are making part time income. I'm one of a few authors still struggling to even get a bite. But I'm still very, very new to the whole publishing aspect of my dreams and goals.
I've seen brand new authors come out swinging, sell thousands of books, and make thousands of dollars. No joke. Then I've seen authors with a list of 20 books struggling through their journey. There are various levels of authors in these groups, but the general consensus is that if, you write a book that readers want to read, package it right, and write the next one, do that over and over again, you'll start gaining readers.
There's nothing certain in this business. Hell, there's nothing certain in this life. But there ARE many, many Indie authors making a living from their craft. I wasn't publishing in 2009 so I can't compare, but I DO have firsthand experience today because I'm around these authors, work with them, learn from them, and know many of their stories.
My guess is that it's always been difficult to publish. Today, it's as easy as slapping a cover on a manuscript and uploading it to Amazon. Sure, there is way more competition now because it is so easy to publish. But hitting publish and selling books are two different beasts.
And alas, I put these articles up to help inform other writers. I'm not looking to talk bad or suspiciously about the authors of the articles. I'm simply sharing information. If you don't like the article or agree, that's fine. But if you have no firsthand knowledge of the subject either, then it's perhaps best to leave comments out that are completely untrue.
Sorry, just saying.
When you say "pay their bills" what are we talking about? I'm not trying to be obtuse, but my mortgage is $2200, my groceries $800, and my car $600. Are you saying they're literally making $3500-$4000/ month?
I mean, even that isn't a ton of money, but it would be very encouraging to know that an honest writer who puts out work consistently could reasonably expect to see $40-50k a year. It just seems kinda high to me. Now, If those same writers who are paying their bills live a lifestyle that costs $1200/ month...well, that isn't really going to pay my bills. Not that $1200/ month wouldn't be nice to have, but it wouldn't FOR ME justify the time I'm putting into writing. If I'm going to do this as a career (and right now, I'm not, I'm doing it as a hobby I love and want to share, and I would be thrilled to get paid at all), it would have to be more in the $50k+ sort of range for me to spend another five years attempting to seriously consider this a viable career path. Otherwise, it's more likely just going to have to be a hobby as I focus on real estate, or go back to being a recruiter.
Again, not to look down my nose at anyone thrilled to be making $20k a year doing what they love or anything, just saying that for me to consider whether I can spend another year on this goal and not working a job, that wouldn't do it for me. I'd have to put work second (behind family) and writing third, I suppose.
I mean, even that isn't a ton of money, but it would be very encouraging to know that an honest writer who puts out work consistently could reasonably expect to see $40-50k a year. It just seems kinda high to me. Now, If those same writers who are paying their bills live a lifestyle that costs $1200/ month...well, that isn't really going to pay my bills. Not that $1200/ month wouldn't be nice to have, but it wouldn't FOR ME justify the time I'm putting into writing. If I'm going to do this as a career (and right now, I'm not, I'm doing it as a hobby I love and want to share, and I would be thrilled to get paid at all), it would have to be more in the $50k+ sort of range for me to spend another five years attempting to seriously consider this a viable career path. Otherwise, it's more likely just going to have to be a hobby as I focus on real estate, or go back to being a recruiter.
Again, not to look down my nose at anyone thrilled to be making $20k a year doing what they love or anything, just saying that for me to consider whether I can spend another year on this goal and not working a job, that wouldn't do it for me. I'd have to put work second (behind family) and writing third, I suppose.
- Thread starter
- #8
C
Chessie
Guest
Yes. There are many Indie authors out there quietly making a living from their books. I know one lady who just bought a house with her writing money (I believe she writes cozy witch stories).
Unbelievable as it sounds, it's true. There are Indie authors making a very good living from what they do.
On the other hand, it's tough as hell to get there. Many of these authors struggled for years before their breakthroughs.
For anyone curious about the Indie market, a great place to hang out is Kboards Writer's Cafe. There are some MS members over there as well. If you hang around enough and read the threads, you'll realize that a lot more authors are making a living than you thought possible.
One brand new Urban Fantasy author published her first book in December. Sold thousands. Kid you not. Then the same thing happened with the other two books in the series she published in Feb and March, respectively. The catch is that she worked on building her email list for many years and therefore, had a strong tool to promote her books. It's generally frowned upon to promote with only 1-3 books, but she did it and it worked for her. She also has created cross promotion opportunities for other writers in the fantasy genre. She's worked hard but is still very new at this, so who knows what her future holds although I hope it's bright and believe that it will be.
Another Scifi author I know published his series starting in February and was making $400 a day from his work. I wish this were a joke, but it's not. He even admits that his prose isn't great but I believe he's making that much because he's shown us graphs and proof that he's really living this.
I could go on and on. So yes, it's real, but it's not easy. This is why I write daily and get upset when people say that I'm not a real writer that takes my work seriously. I want this. I'm going to have this. I have strong support from my husband and I will get there. But I'm not in any real rush because I want to do this right. My goal is to be living off my writing within the next 5 years. Luckily, I'm a housewife so I have a lot of time and writing is a JOB to me. I keep a daily schedule, work my ass off, and learn a lot.
This is very achievable. You just have to put in a massive amount of work while expecting that work to pay off eventually. When it pays off is different for all authors. But it is a likelihood if you stick with it. This is why I say that self-publishing is a serious endeavor. I'm attempting to run a business that will provide for my family. I even need to figure out what to do with it if I die. It's real stuff.
Unbelievable as it sounds, it's true. There are Indie authors making a very good living from what they do.
On the other hand, it's tough as hell to get there. Many of these authors struggled for years before their breakthroughs.
For anyone curious about the Indie market, a great place to hang out is Kboards Writer's Cafe. There are some MS members over there as well. If you hang around enough and read the threads, you'll realize that a lot more authors are making a living than you thought possible.
One brand new Urban Fantasy author published her first book in December. Sold thousands. Kid you not. Then the same thing happened with the other two books in the series she published in Feb and March, respectively. The catch is that she worked on building her email list for many years and therefore, had a strong tool to promote her books. It's generally frowned upon to promote with only 1-3 books, but she did it and it worked for her. She also has created cross promotion opportunities for other writers in the fantasy genre. She's worked hard but is still very new at this, so who knows what her future holds although I hope it's bright and believe that it will be.
Another Scifi author I know published his series starting in February and was making $400 a day from his work. I wish this were a joke, but it's not. He even admits that his prose isn't great but I believe he's making that much because he's shown us graphs and proof that he's really living this.
I could go on and on. So yes, it's real, but it's not easy. This is why I write daily and get upset when people say that I'm not a real writer that takes my work seriously. I want this. I'm going to have this. I have strong support from my husband and I will get there. But I'm not in any real rush because I want to do this right. My goal is to be living off my writing within the next 5 years. Luckily, I'm a housewife so I have a lot of time and writing is a JOB to me. I keep a daily schedule, work my ass off, and learn a lot.
This is very achievable. You just have to put in a massive amount of work while expecting that work to pay off eventually. When it pays off is different for all authors. But it is a likelihood if you stick with it. This is why I say that self-publishing is a serious endeavor. I'm attempting to run a business that will provide for my family. I even need to figure out what to do with it if I die. It's real stuff.
- Thread starter
- #9
C
Chessie
Guest
Maiden, if you desire to make a buttload of money at self-publishing, then that's the wrong attitude to have when going into it. Nothing is a guarantee in this game. You could hit it big. You could lose out. Who knows. But self publishing will pay you more than traditional will. Of course that all depends on many, many factors, but considering that you're making zero now even $1200 a month would be a vast improvement.
Money isn't the reason to self publish. Wanting to run your own business and be in charge of your writing career is really the key desire here.
EDIT: Money is an important factor in all our lives. With that said, Maiden, I would stick to real estate and write as a hobby. The reason being that there are no guarantees with publishing. There are so many freaking factors that go into this, that if you want something more 'sure' then real estate would be a better bet.
Me? I'm following this path because I like the idea of being in control of my writing career. I'm a DIY. I even make my own conditioner and hair treaments. We're a do it yourself type of family. This is right for me because I've always wanted to write for a living, and I have a second income from my husband. So even if I make a small bit of money that's enough for us. I'm going to do this until I die because this is what I've always wanted and money isnt necessarily important to me. I live in a tiny cabin in the woods and have the basics. So long as my family eats well daily, has a roof over their heads, and enough money to have fun with, I'm good. Self publishing can give me that and the funnest thing about it is getting there.
Money isn't the reason to self publish. Wanting to run your own business and be in charge of your writing career is really the key desire here.
EDIT: Money is an important factor in all our lives. With that said, Maiden, I would stick to real estate and write as a hobby. The reason being that there are no guarantees with publishing. There are so many freaking factors that go into this, that if you want something more 'sure' then real estate would be a better bet.
Me? I'm following this path because I like the idea of being in control of my writing career. I'm a DIY. I even make my own conditioner and hair treaments. We're a do it yourself type of family. This is right for me because I've always wanted to write for a living, and I have a second income from my husband. So even if I make a small bit of money that's enough for us. I'm going to do this until I die because this is what I've always wanted and money isnt necessarily important to me. I live in a tiny cabin in the woods and have the basics. So long as my family eats well daily, has a roof over their heads, and enough money to have fun with, I'm good. Self publishing can give me that and the funnest thing about it is getting there.
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Russ
Istar
While anecdotal materials is always great, unfortunately, the general trend is that both indie and traditional authors are making less than they used to overall, and the vast majority of indie authors, and many traditionally published authors total earnings from writing are well below the poverty line.
You do also have to be careful with sources. At least two of the links in the original articles links are to people whose material is suspect at best. As with most things on the internet the situation is buyer beware.
You do also have to be careful with sources. At least two of the links in the original articles links are to people whose material is suspect at best. As with most things on the internet the situation is buyer beware.
- Thread starter
- #11
C
Chessie
Guest
Russ, I understand your points. But I would really appreciate it if once...just once...a discussion on Indie or traditional publishing was met with respect for the choices of those who choose their own paths.
I feel like everytime myself or someone else puts up an article in this section, it's met with great skepticism as if I'm just making shit up and not looking deeper into sources. I'm not stupid. And I resent that everytime I try to make myself useful around here I'm met with negative force.
What the heck is going on in these forums lately? Holy cow. Just let people live.
I feel like everytime myself or someone else puts up an article in this section, it's met with great skepticism as if I'm just making shit up and not looking deeper into sources. I'm not stupid. And I resent that everytime I try to make myself useful around here I'm met with negative force.
What the heck is going on in these forums lately? Holy cow. Just let people live.
PaulineMRoss
Inkling
This ^ Yes, you can make money from it, but to make more than pizza-and-wine money, it's incredibly hard work. The people I know who've made the breakthrough have mostly worked their socks off to put out books fast enough to catch the wave. In my FB authors' group of 35, there are maybe a third who are full time because of their writing. Two or three of them hit it big by pure serendipity, in that they happened to put out books that had a huge market. The rest have consciously chosen to 'write to market', that is, writing in a genre and style they love, but tailoring it to ensure it meets reader expectations. The rest of us are just bumping along making anything from coffee money to saving-for-a-new-car money. The group's probably not representative of indie authors in general, since it has a very high proportion of focused, driven individuals, but the fact remains that it's possible to set out to make a living from writing, if you follow certain guidelines.
To get back to Hugh Howey's article, I do think it's disingenuous to say blithely that self-publishing is easier than ever now, because that's only true on the technical level. To do it successfully is harder than it's ever been (but not impossible).
With respect to the merits of each path, I can't think of a good reason not to, at the very least, go hybrid.
Russ
Istar
Two things.
Firstly, can you show me where I suggested the indie path is wrong? I think the article based on its title and tone is a tad polly-anna on the subject, but nowhere did I suggest it was a wrong path.
Secondly the warning about the sources was more directed at CM than you as she praised some of the interior links in the article. There are legitimate factual problems about what they say.
To your feelings about the response, I think you post a ton of great material and share many helpful and inspirational stories from your own life that, as you know, I really enjoy. But I disagree with Mr. Howey on this and many other things he has said lately.
A forum, I think, is about discussion, and I honestly disagree with Howey and don't like his approach. Should I forgo saying that? Shall I only post on threads where I agree with the opinion under discussion?
I am also pleased to see Ms. Ross agrees with at least some of my concerns.
Russ
Istar
On an objective level, that is the best way to go to earn money. Hybrid authors tend to have the highest income of any author group.
Yeah, just looking at the whole thing it seems pretty clear that 'hybrid' is the route to take. I wonder why more people don't do it (or maybe more are doing it than I realize).
- Thread starter
- #17
C
Chessie
Guest
Russ, of course you should speak your mind. It just seems that the discussions in this publishing section tend to lean more in the negative when it comes to Indie publishing. I'd like for folks to be informed and be able to weigh both options without being told that one side is wrong and the other is right, is all. In unfairness, I took yours and Skip's comments along with the batch of past resposes to other threads here and for that, I'm sorry.
I just think it's important to keep an open mind and that's why I share these articles. Although I don't always agree with Mr. Howey either. I never agree with anyone all the time (just ask my husband, he'll tell you everything). But that doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid point every once in a while, is all I'm saying.
I just think it's important to keep an open mind and that's why I share these articles. Although I don't always agree with Mr. Howey either. I never agree with anyone all the time (just ask my husband, he'll tell you everything). But that doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid point every once in a while, is all I'm saying.
- Thread starter
- #18
C
Chessie
Guest
Probably because it requires a traditional contract and a lot of Indie authors don't have one?
Idk..I like to keep an open mind and all but the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of outsourcing covers, editing, and marketing to someone else so I can just write. But I don't see myself being a good match for the traditional route either. So I'll just keep dreaming and outsourcing as is possible for now.
Chesterama, I have looked into the issue in depth for four years now. That hardly makes me an expert, but neither does it mean I've chosen sides. I'm still wrestling with it. But I can say this much: finding a good artist is tough. The person has to be 1) artistically good, 2) technically good (knows how to produce for the unusual needs of self-publishing, 3) professional (by which I mostly mean timely), and 4) stylistically compatible with both the market and the book. That is, in my experience so far, a rare and often (though not always) expensive bird.
The same goes for editors, twice over, because the reader spends only moments with the cover but spends hours (one hopes) with the words.
Finding such people takes hours. It can take hundreds of hours, especially with editors because you have to invest hours finding the individual then more hours in the actual editing process only to discover the person is not the right fit. Or, as has happened, is the right fit for your first work but is not available for the second.
I don't mind the social media investment because to me it's a way to communicate with my readers. What writer would not want that? Some, I know, but I'm good with it. But the many hours spent trying to locate the business partners a writer needs, and then to maintain same, that's a significant investment. These are the sorts of considerations I'd like to have Mr Howey address, rather than general statements about how easy it is to take the (relatively trivial) step of publishing.
And I haven't even addressed finding the right CRM or a good web developer.
In fairness to tradpub, a dishearteningly large and growing portion of the above is being pushed by the publishing houses onto the backs of new authors. At the very time the industry is shifting, trad publishers seem intent on making their path rockier than it ever was.
I'll say one more thing. In reading about paths to publishing, reading accounts that go back decades, one facet strikes me particularly: it's mostly anecdote. Some (these are harder to find) have tried to get published only to find the way barred, or filled with thorns, or find themselves betrayed and ruined along the way. These voices combine to condemn traditional publishing. Others got published quickly or slowly, but in general made a living, and they praise tradpub. Same for self-pub. It's impossible to get statistics for this because so much of it depends on individual reactions to individual circumstances. None of which is any damn help for us poor slobs trying to break in, is it? I bring it up because I sincerely believe there is no objectively right answer to the question. At some point, you jump and flap your arms like crazy.
YMMV (Your Misery May Vary)
The same goes for editors, twice over, because the reader spends only moments with the cover but spends hours (one hopes) with the words.
Finding such people takes hours. It can take hundreds of hours, especially with editors because you have to invest hours finding the individual then more hours in the actual editing process only to discover the person is not the right fit. Or, as has happened, is the right fit for your first work but is not available for the second.
I don't mind the social media investment because to me it's a way to communicate with my readers. What writer would not want that? Some, I know, but I'm good with it. But the many hours spent trying to locate the business partners a writer needs, and then to maintain same, that's a significant investment. These are the sorts of considerations I'd like to have Mr Howey address, rather than general statements about how easy it is to take the (relatively trivial) step of publishing.
And I haven't even addressed finding the right CRM or a good web developer.
In fairness to tradpub, a dishearteningly large and growing portion of the above is being pushed by the publishing houses onto the backs of new authors. At the very time the industry is shifting, trad publishers seem intent on making their path rockier than it ever was.
I'll say one more thing. In reading about paths to publishing, reading accounts that go back decades, one facet strikes me particularly: it's mostly anecdote. Some (these are harder to find) have tried to get published only to find the way barred, or filled with thorns, or find themselves betrayed and ruined along the way. These voices combine to condemn traditional publishing. Others got published quickly or slowly, but in general made a living, and they praise tradpub. Same for self-pub. It's impossible to get statistics for this because so much of it depends on individual reactions to individual circumstances. None of which is any damn help for us poor slobs trying to break in, is it? I bring it up because I sincerely believe there is no objectively right answer to the question. At some point, you jump and flap your arms like crazy.
YMMV (Your Misery May Vary)
Thanks for tackling some of my issues and clarifying what you meant about earning a living for me. I think my motivation is probably different than yours, but not entirely so. One, I'm a housewife too, but with my youngest going to school this year, I no longer have to be a mom first. So this year is the year I really re-enter the workforce. After almost 9 years at home, raising four kids. I have to pick a path. I can either go to an office and make $50-60k a year as a recruiter. I can work hard to make myself accountable every day and go to work every day as a self-employed real estate agent, which can earn anything, as you know. Most homes here are about $300-400k so if I sold 10 a year, I'd make $50k/ year. but the trick is that I have to then stop waking up to write and begin waking up to sell myself to the world of potential clients. Third, I can really try this writing thing and use the home office we're building, and just commit to actually publishing the vast mountain of work I've written in the last decade. I mean, realistically, I could have at least four novels completed this next school year. If I busted my butt.
So yeah, this is tricky for me, because my husband makes a good living, so I'm free to decide, but he's sort of told me that if we want to pay off our house out in New Mexico that's rented out, I'll have to earn the cash to pay it off this year, and every dollar I earn is just us being that much closer to our goals of making our money work for us, rather than having to work forever. So...thanks again for breaking it down a little more. I need to shit or get off the pot, I know, but I'm a scared little writer, afraid to publish at all. And yet I want to finish things so badly and just get them off my plate. I feel so weak. You obviously don't have that problem, so I'm glad you found the path for you. I hope it just keeps snowballing, because I love to hear success stories from our members.
So yeah, this is tricky for me, because my husband makes a good living, so I'm free to decide, but he's sort of told me that if we want to pay off our house out in New Mexico that's rented out, I'll have to earn the cash to pay it off this year, and every dollar I earn is just us being that much closer to our goals of making our money work for us, rather than having to work forever. So...thanks again for breaking it down a little more. I need to shit or get off the pot, I know, but I'm a scared little writer, afraid to publish at all. And yet I want to finish things so badly and just get them off my plate. I feel so weak. You obviously don't have that problem, so I'm glad you found the path for you. I hope it just keeps snowballing, because I love to hear success stories from our members.
