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Neon Genesis Evangelion

Discussion in 'Film & Television' started by TheCrystallineEntity, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. I'm curious about this series, though I don't plan on watching it.

    Does anyone know where the creator found the names for the angels?

    Also, I wish I could understand why people detest Shinji so much. It makes me so sad how they despise him for being sensitive and quiet [I am both things, and I know a lot of people who are similar] and claim that he is just whiny and a coward and and for being so reluctant to fight horrifying creatures that would likely unhinge even the toughest, experienced soldier, nevermind a teenager. [Or for being unwilling to kill Kaworu, basically the only person to actually show him love and kindness...]

    Imagine if someone made a first-person simulation of every single one of Shinji's experiences. Likely everyone who took it would be completely traumatized.

    To quote TV Tropes:

    Quote:
    No matter how much hell he goes through, many viewers still attribute Shinji's issues to him just being a whiny, bratty wuss. Not even discovering Unit-02 disemboweled is an adequate excuse for him not taking insane amounts of tragedy, misfortune, cosmic horrors, and near-constant abuse in stride.
     
  2. Horus

    Horus Scribe

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    It is a great series. As far as where the Angel names come from, they are all (as I understand it) taken from Judaism.

    As far as Shinji is concerned... I don't cut him any slack for multiple reason. Without spoilers, his inaction often causes others tremendous harm. As someone who is in the military, even the idea of combat can be scary. I can understand him wanting to runaway from Angels, and can forgive that. He is a realistic character, but not a likable one from the reader's perspective. A friend recently likened him to Theon Grayjoy from Game of Thrones. Realistic, but utterly unlikable because he fails people way too often.

    That's BEFORE you place him alongside characters who are essentially military trained to run TOWARDS danger. No one ever trains Shinji to be desensitized about risking his life, or to conduct combat based purely on reflex. Real soldiers aren't trained like that. Still, even when stacked up against the kids who went off to fight WWII, Shinji is sorely lacking. Should he have become a colder killing machine? Maybe not, but he should be concise in his choices, especially two of which that were more about his lack of experience with women/people.

    Short version, Shinji is written into being an unlikable guy because he doesn't behave in any way that is heroic. He operates like a lost lamb that is constantly going into situations he doesn't want to be in. Only ever really escaping because the Eva defeats 70% of his enemies. Even without the cosmic horror of having angels in your head at several points, he still behaves in a way that readers won't like for a hero.
     
  3. That's odd. I actually find Shinji extremely sympathetic. But, then, I can pretty much emphasize with anyone...

    Also, Shinji was made specifically as a deconstruction of mecha heroes, or even heroes in general.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  4. TheKillerBs

    TheKillerBs Inkling

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    Shinji has a lot of vocal retractors, but he's also very popular, or at least was at the time. He won a lot popularity contests back in the 90s. Also, an in-character defence of Shinji Ikari from /a/ of all places, go figure. The language is not family-friendly, or even friendly in any way, as one would expect from posts on 4chan, so be warned. (Link is to imgur, not 4chan or its archives).
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  5. Mythopoet

    Mythopoet Auror

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    Here's the thing... this is a story. Shinji isn't real. His experiences aren't real. All of his experiences and his reactions to them are chosen and designed by the the writers. So as far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly valid to criticize them if you feel that they contributed to an unsatisfying story. The main problem, I think, is that Shinji does show growth in the first half of the show. All the characters have some interesting development in the first half. The second half throws it all down the toilet. When you choose to show your main character responding to his comrade lying on a hospital bed unconscious by masturbating over her, you've crossed over into "very wrong and messed up and there's no excuse" territory. And then at the end of the movie conclusion to the series, he starts strangling the same girl he masturbated to earlier for literally no reason. Yes, this happens. So.... **** Shinji.

    And also Hideaki Anno and the whole series. The whole thing turns into a steaming pile of crap in the second half of the series and never makes any sense again.
     
  6. I'm so sorry. What was I thinking...I'm sorry for even bringing this up. I won't talk about it again.
     
  7. Mythopoet

    Mythopoet Auror

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    I don't know why you would say that. There's nothing wrong with talking about it and no reason to apologize. I was merely expressing my opinion of it.
     
  8. Thomas Laszlo

    Thomas Laszlo Sage

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    Not that bluntness isn’t good sometimes lol and I have no idea what the show or movie is about... but maybe less sharp blunt? [emoji23] just an idea. I may be reading too far into your pst though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. ^^But it's clear that you don't like it, so there's no sense in talking about something unpleasant.
     
  10. Mythopoet

    Mythopoet Auror

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    You said you wanted to know why people dislike Shinji. I gave you my reasons. It seems that you don't want to hear negative answers though. :rolleyes: Personally, I think there is value in discussing stories you don't like and identifying the reasons for the dislike. You can learn valuable lessons that way.
     
  11. Oh. Now I feel foolish. This seems to happen a lot on this forum...I shall retreat and reflect.
     
  12. Thomas Laszlo

    Thomas Laszlo Sage

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    I agree!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. Horus

    Horus Scribe

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    I can't believe I am saying this, but you need to realize that some of this stuff makes Shinji sounds worse than he is when taken out of context (reason I didn't want to go into details on his actions). That said, Shinji, Asuka, and Rei have a very complicated relationship. Hell, throw in Misato for kicks too. Shinji is surrounded by complex women from the start of this anime, and he proceeds to compound these problems by falling into every possible social trap like a damn blind/nose-less bomb dog. Add in the fact that he never had a relationship with his mother, and his father is the poster boy for narcissism, only seeing Shinji as a means to achieve the goal of seeing his wife again (did I mention all of humanity is acceptable collateral damage?).

    So, Shinji proceeds to be placed within the care of a drop-dead gorgeous, borderline alcoholic female, who is also his superior officer for combat missions. He interacts with her with all the grace you can imagine, often having a relationship that borders between harshly nurturing to borderline of sexually demeaning. Shinji actually takes care of Misato in more ways than she takes care of him, most of the time. He prepares most of the meals, does most of the chores, and while Misato does mature as the series progresses... she also grows more distant after having become a slight emotional crutch for him.

    Then enters Rei, a teenage girl with seemingly no emotions, that he has a crush on, but that seems to be in-love with his emotionally oppressive father. He sees her interact with his father in a way that he never could, while also having to endure the frustrating prospect of working with her (despite having feelings for her that range from resentment to love). I won't go into the dynamics of what happens to their relationship (because it is a huge spoiler), but it devolves like all other relationships in the show.

    Next up, Asuka... I could write an entire psych paper on the problems with these two. They meet and instantly dislike each other, despite being forced to work as a team to defeat deadly enemies. The problem is compounded by the fact that someone thinks it is a great idea to assign both Shinji and Asuka to the same slightly inept guardian! She then proceeds to torment him on a daily basis, insulting him as both as a male/human being. Asuka is infatuated with Shinji, and vice versa, but they are too immature to properly address it, so it ends up being them both hurting each other physically/mentally. By the end of the series, Asuka loves Shinji, but resents him for being shy and too infatuated with Rei. There's even a seen where she finally breaks down and admits that she hates everyone, including herself.

    If you want an example, at one point, Asuka convinces Shinji to kiss, then proceeds to pinch his nose while kissing him for about 12 seconds. He nearly passes out, then she runs to the bathroom, rinses out of her mouth, and expands about how god awful this kiss was, THAT SHE HAD TOTAL CONTROL OVER. Now, he does not strangle her for no reason. He stranglers her because he is in-love with her and finally states such (something she wanted him to do for a long time), but she rejects his pleas for help. She has her reasons, he has his. His response is... understandable from a human perspective. Humans kill over much less in lover quarrels.

    To sum this up, Shinji is a terrible human being, but that's because he was never a functioning one in the first place. He just devolves when place in a increasingly terrible position. Asuka is, more or less, an equally terrible human being, but her actions are usually portrayed as funny. Plus (as one of my friends puts it) she has boobs and his aggressive/cute, so her bad qualities are instantly forgotten by most male fans. I hate to admit it, but I hate Shinji far more than a hate Asuka, despite them being fairly on par in immaturity. They are just opposite ends of the spectrum for dealing with this as Asuka is a Tsudure, and Shinji is just shy. In any event, you shouldn't feel foolish for defending Shinji, because people have been doing so with good points for a long time.
     
  14. Horus

    Horus Scribe

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    Can't edit, so here's something that explains Shinji very well. It shows that is probably THE most believable anime protagonist ever written. It also explains exactly why no one likes him too. It is long. But if you want to watch it, watch it.

    Edit: After watching some of the content, the URL might serve better because they do show animated nudity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  15. Gryphos

    Gryphos Auror

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    It's been a while since I watched Evangelion, but for me, the key thing isn't that Shinji is whiny, but the fact that he keeps being whiny throughout the entire series. Like, vulnerability is good in a protagonist, and in the first few episodes I can get behind him being hesitant and fragile. But after a while it just gets boring. As interesting/realistic it is from a psychological standpoint, it's dull from a storytelling standpoint.

    But as for the show in its entirety, I'm lukewarm towards it tbh. It's a little too stingy with granting the audience answers for it to be wholly satisfying. And I feel a little uncomfortable about the way it sexualises characters who are like 13 years old.
     
    Mythopoet likes this.

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