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Permission for quotes?

Tom

Istar
I'm miles away from getting published, but I want to quote the lyrics of one of my favorite songs on the dedication page of my novel. The song's quite popular right now, and I'm wondering, if I publish either through traditional publishing or self-publish, would I have to ask the artist's permission to include his lyrics?
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
Probably. If you trad-pub, chances are the company will check. Otherwise, you'll have to do it yourself. And probably have to pay something.
 
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Penpilot

Staff
Article Team
Not an expert but, yeah, I agree with Skip.Knox. You probably have to ask for permission especially for song lyrics because one line comprises a greater percentage of the complete text. With quotes from books and stuff, one line might fall under fair use because it's a small percentage of a greater whole.

Here are a couple of articles that may be of interest.

Can I Use Song Lyrics in my Manuscript?WritersDigest.com | WritersDigest.com

http://annerallen.blogspot.ca/2013/03/so-you-want-to-use-song-lyrics-in-your.html
 
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Mythopoet

Auror
I was going to post a link to that Anne R. Allen blog post as well, but Penpilot beat me to it. In it she points out that Fair Use does NOT apply to songs. So yes, you will have to get permissions to use the song in your work and you will have to pay for it. Quite a lot, probably, if the song is popular.
 
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SeverinR

Vala
Sampling showed this.
For a while, singers would "sample" songs in their work, some got rediculous, the song was 90% samples worked together, with little extra from the "artist".

For songs, "Public domain" goes way back. So if you use, when you publish, you will need to get approval. Unless set in modern times or the time has modern music in old times (a knights tale-has modern music), you would need to strip the music or work it into your music or just drop it in as a philosphical statement.

Might be better to paraphrase, maybe even look up old words to say the same thing? Similar is not the same, esp in ideas or idiology. "I've listened to preachers, and I've listened to fools..." Ozzy O-must clear it through his people to use.
"I heard from clerics and I heard from Jesters..." Reworded, probably wouldn't need to clear, but if you reword "dropouts who make their own rules," they might figure out you are using his phrase and then seek discussion/payment.
Granted, you probably wouldn't be able to write a song with the rephrased words, but not all authors can write the songs anyway.
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
The statement that Fair Use doesn't apply to song lyrics is false.

Heck, one of the seminal Fair Use cases to hit the Supreme Court found in favor of Fair Use in the use of song lyrics.

Fair Use is provided by statute at 17 U.S.C. 107. I don't see any exclusion for song lyrics in the statute, either.
 

Tom

Istar
I'm not looking to quote the lyrics directly in my work, which is where a paraphrase would fit.

I want to put them in the opening pages, like some authors do--a quote from some other work that gives you an idea of the theme of the book. I'd credit not only the song name, but the artist's name and his record label. Not sure if I'd need permission for that; it would be very clear that the quote was not my own work.

Here's kind of what I mean:

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes 'ding' when there's stuff."
--the Tenth Doctor (Doctor Who)

Or:


"The woods are lovely, dark and deep,/But I have promises to keep..."
--Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening"

Would I need permission for that?
 

Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
Fair Use is always a case-specific analysis. Of the two examples you posted, I'm a lot more comfortable with the Dr. Who example, for two reasons:

1. The amount of the underlying work taken is a factor in the Fair Use analysis; and 2
2. Frost's estate is known to go after people.

For what you're talking about, the safest choice is to get permission. That way you never wind up in a position where you're having to argue Fair Use, which you may or may not win (harder to argue for songs because of how short they are), and which will cost money if you're ever involved in a lawsuit over it. Of course, there's always a chance the copyright owner will never even find out about the use, but the more successful your work is the more likely it becomes that they will learn of it.
 
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Jabrosky

Banned
I have to say I am surprised that Steerpike, one of the most respectable and gentlemanly posters on this website, works as a lawyer.

#BringOnTheBoosAndTomatoes

In all seriousness, a few times I have considered inserting various pop-culture references into my writing, always for humorous effect. For one story I wrote for a creative writing class, I had a vizier character teasingly quote his queen as singing, "Queens don't need advice from fat old Viziers, for a start!" Everyone in my review circle immediately recognized the original song and told me to take it out. In retrospect that was good advice since the song in question is copyrighted.

What might be trickier are Internet memes since they aren't always derived from copyrighted material. Who could sue you for writing grumpy cats or characters saying, "Your argument is irrelevant?"
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
I have to say I am surprised that Steerpike, one of the most respectable and gentlemanly posters on this website, works as a lawyer.

#BringOnTheBoosAndTomatoes

In all seriousness, a few times I have considered inserting various pop-culture references into my writing, always for humorous effect. For one story I wrote for a creative writing class, I had a vizier character teasingly quote his queen as singing, "Queens don't need advice from fat old Viziers, for a start!" Everyone in my review circle immediately recognized the original song and told me to take it out. In retrospect that was good advice since the song in question is copyrighted.

What might be trickier are Internet memes since they aren't always derived from copyrighted material. Who could sue you for writing grumpy cats or characters saying, "Your argument is irrelevant?"

I think the rules for parody are different than for direct quotation. Your line about Queens and Viziers may have been acceptable even despite Disney's tight grip on their rights and trademarks. I've done the same thing in one of my own WIPs, having the heroine (who is from contemporary Earth and actually has a legit, plot-important reason to be familiar with Disney) tweaking a line from a song in Beauty and the Beast to reflect her and her abductor/groom-to-be instead of Belle and Gaston. But I'll leave it to an actual lawyer to say whether I'm on the mark or not.
 

CupofJoe

Myth Weaver
I think the rules of Parody reuse of other's work are changing in the UK... I'm fairly sure I've read that it will be down to a judge [just one] to decide if what you've done is parody or not... effectively you have to make him [all most certainly it will be a him] laugh... and that will be decision.
 
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