Prospects of Divination

[tnd314_fool]

So,
I've created a power system which includes one main power and one support
Here powers are categorised into 16 types with every type having a different set of abilities
One such type has the power of Cause and effect
This involves him watching the cause of an effect as a basic ability and making something happen without the necessary cause as a very advanced ability, like causing someone to age without going through the process of aging
So I've been troubled with the assigning a support power for it and thought maybe divination can work here
But I can't really contemplate on how to make both work without them overlapping their boundaries
So if someone can provide with few abilities of divination which can work well with the main ability without overlapping, I'd be really grateful

 

[pmmg]

I would see Cause and Effect as a way to understand many possible outcomes and divination as seeing only a single, and certain outcome. Divination would seem the greater power to me. With cause and effect, I can understand that lottery balls will be sucked into the tube when the cap is pulled, but with divination I can know what the numbers will be.

It would seem a great benefit of understanding cause and effect might be to change the outcome of divination, with perhaps horrible consequences.

Another companion power to cause and effect might be destabilizing or confounding the sequence of cause and effect by giving more weight to least significant variables, similar to what chaos theory supposes. Since any cause can only be imprecisely measured, a small change in an obscure variable could have ballooning effect, which could alter the expected outcome. Such would likely cause confusion or dissonance from those who thought they understood the principle.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

Does divination have to be a special ability?

In the real world, there are many methods of divination that any interested person can learn: astrology, tarot, and i-ching, for example. How accurate that divination is may vary, but it doesn't take special powers to use any of those methods. All it takes is an understanding of how they work, some intuitive sense to put it all together, and, especially in the case of astrology, logical reasoning.

If divination also works that way in your fictional world, any of your characters would be able to use it, no matter what their special powers are, or even if they have no special powers at all. Perhaps the astrology, tarot, and i-ching sorts of divination would be available to anyone who's learned them, while other abilities like clairvoyance and precognition would be special powers only a few have. Those people could be the oracles.

 

[tnd314_fool]

Does divination have to be a special ability?

In the real world, there are many methods of divination that any interested person can learn: astrology, tarot, and i-ching, for example. How accurate that divination is may vary, but it doesn't take special powers to use any of those methods. All it takes is an understanding of how they work, some intuitive sense to put it all together, and, especially in the case of astrology, logical reasoning.

If divination also works that way in your fictional world, any of your characters would be able to use it, no matter what their special powers are, or even if they have no special powers at all. Perhaps the astrology, tarot, and i-ching sorts of divination would be available to anyone who's learned them, while other abilities like clairvoyance and precognition would be special powers only a few have. Those people could be the oracles.

The thing is, the power system has 8 stages to grow, and the special abilities can grow for 7 stages as the person's stage increases
So I was thinking that divination can grow more as it overlaps powers like clairvoyance and precognition, but that's still a small part about the way I can develop divination, and I'm out of ideas on how to develop it further

 

[Rosemary Tea]

So I was thinking that divination can grow more as it overlaps powers like clairvoyance and precognition, but that's still a small part about the way I can develop divination, and I'm out of ideas on how to develop it further

How are you defining divination?

I think of divination as a tool that can be used to learn what cannot be learned through mundane means. Anyone with a mind to can learn how to use the tool. They don't have to be different from everyone else.

You seem to be defining divination as an ability, not a tool.

Specifically how do diviners divine things, in your world?

 

[tnd314_fool]

How are you defining divination?

I think of divination as a tool that can be used to learn what cannot be learned through mundane means. Anyone with a mind to can learn how to use the tool. They don't have to be different from everyone else.

You seem to be defining divination as an ability, not a tool.

Specifically how do diviners divine things, in your world?

Hmm, now that I think about it, I haven't thought much about how I would want that to play out and got divination kinda wrong
But I'd imagine using various tools like tarot cards, those orbs or rituals at earlier stages but as the stage progresses it gets more of a passive ability, like gaining danger sense or just know what is right or wrong for you or watch snippets of future
And at higher stages, the person can watch future events just by closing his eyes and thinking about it

 

[Rosemary Tea]

as the stage progresses it gets more of a passive ability, like gaining danger sense or just know what is right or wrong for you

That's not divination. That's intuition.

or watch snippets of future

And at higher stages, the person can watch future events just by closing his eyes and thinking about it

The ability to do that is precognition, not divination. If the precognitive individual has to carry out some sort of ritual to access their precognitive ability, THAT would be divination. If they can just check in with it anytime, anywhere, without using any tools or doing anything to wake it up, that's not divination, just precognition.

 

[pmmg]

I think of divination as a tool that can be used to learn what cannot be learned through mundane means. Anyone with a mind to can learn how to use the tool. They don't have to be different from everyone else.

Divination is generally thought of as gaining information through a supernatural means. That is not widely held to be in the category of anyone can learn. This is usually presented as a gift only magic types, mystics, or 'sensitives' can do.

However, I think you are correct. What is described is more a type of precognition, and not divination, but many powers do kind of over lap.

Cause and effect is tough one, because it is so broad, any secondary power will still look to be included in an understanding of cause and effect.

Mastery of understanding of cause and effect would lend itself to giving one to appear to have many other powers, and it would be hard to tell where some line formed and this power was because of the mastery, and this because of something else.

However, cause and effect would seem to have little sway over the supernatural effects of divination, as it maybe unnatural effects may not been seen to have natural causes, and so exist outside of this law. For example, would one who studies cause and effect know that Zeus would get mad today and send the kraken to destroy a town? How would they know anything of the mind of Zeus? If they consulted the oracle of Delphi, they might say Zeus seems unusually mad, stay away from the coast, but there may not be a cause and effect relationship involved.

 

[tnd314_fool]

That's not divination. That's intuition.



The ability to do that is precognition, not divination. If the precognitive individual has to carry out some sort of ritual to access their precognitive ability, THAT would be divination. If they can just check in with it anytime, anywhere, without using any tools or doing

That's not divination. That's intuition.



The ability to do that is precognition, not divination. If the precognitive individual has to carry out some sort of ritual to access their precognitive ability, THAT would be divination. If they can just check in with it anytime, anywhere, without using any tools or doing anything to wake it up, that's not divination, just precognition.

Well yeah, like I said, I want divination to evolve as the stages increase to overlap boundaries of precognition and intuition and stuff to make it more feasible to use
The original use of tools will still be a thing for a while until the level of person becomes too high to bother with them.
Imagine having to undergo rituals in middle of a fight.

 

[Queshire]

Hmmmm.... well, let's imagine what it'd look like in action. Jim the mage is traveling to the mountains when he's attacked by bandits. He's got a sword at his side though he's not really that good at using it. He doesn't have to though. Jim can just skip the cause of cutting the bandits and arrive at the effect of blood splurting out of sword wounds. Jim moves on past the now very dead bandits.

Jim arrives at a quiet mountain valley. It has a nice stream running through it. Mm, just perfect. Jim decides to build a house there. Jim skips past the cause of chopping down trees and carving them into planks and to the effect of having the lumber he needs for his home. It's the same with quarrying and cutting stone to reach the effect of having the stone blocks he needs. Next he skips the cause of constructing the house to reach the effect of the house being built. Yay, house!

Can it be condensed though? Can he skip past the cause of gathering all the materials and building the house in order to directly reach the effect of the house being built? How far can the magic be pushed? That could be really, really powerful.

Let's say that it can only skip one "step" of cause and effect at a time. If you want to build a house you need the materials at hand or use the magic multiple times. Where would divination come into play? Well, using it to find the materials needed in the first place seems like it'd have convenient synergy with the cause & effect magic. Stone & lumber might be common enough, but if you want say, gold then you could divine where its located and skip mining it to reach the effect of having gold.

 

[pmmg]

Just another thought, and It might be useful if you put up examples of pairing you thing work well, but maybe mastery of Cause and Effect is one that is just different from the others. And is so powerful on its own it does not have a secondary support ability, or maybe instead has a secondary ability that is a detriment instead of a benefit.

Such that, maybes someone who masters cause and effect becomes blind to the supernatural, and can be flummoxed by it.

 

[tnd314_fool]

Just another thought, and It might be useful if you put up examples of pairing you thing work well, but maybe mastery of Cause and Effect is one that is just different from the others. And is so powerful on its own it does not have a secondary support ability, or maybe instead has a secondary ability that is a detriment instead of a benefit.

Such that, maybes someone who masters cause and effect becomes blind to the supernatural, and can be flummoxed by it.

You know what, that is actually quite a nice idea
Though I might not add a detrimental active ability, cause that's just absurd why they'll even use that in the first place, adding a passive self harming effect on using it might be a good idea