Quasi-Psionic magic system, feedback needed.

[Logos&Eidos]

My problem with building more"abtract" magic systems, has always been my inability logicaly-balance them.By that I mean comme up with limitations that logicaly flow from the magic systems basic premis.

The premise of the system is this.

The art is commonly called the perfecting path because it allows a practitioner to focus and take conscious controlled of the mental and physical processes. This manifest as feats of extreme(but physically impossible) athleticism and or mental/artistic prowess, heightened awareness that can board on clairvoyance ( but isn't quite there yet). At this level you are the goddamn Batman! Or your board line superhuman badass normal of choice.

The next level up is when you tap into physical and psychic energies, this is when unquestionably supernatural abilities become available. Psychic and physical energies can be "sensed"reliably and projected outward, to heal or harm and effect the minds of others. It is at this level also when the first clairvoyance abilities are accessible. Strong psychics can pear beyond the veil and sense the hidden rhythm of the world, gaining uncanny speed and precision; basic you get "Jedi reflexes" and maybe some other benefits . Strong Somatics can attune to the world around feeling the environment as though it was an extension of themselves; if you've ever seen a story where a character can function and fight when completely denied their sight this that ability.

The final level deals with ability to combined the psychic and somatic energy inside ones self, this is where things start to get weird. By blending the two energies one can blur the lines between mental and the physical the natural and the supernatural. Truly superhuman feats of physicality are now possible. By invoking the freedom and fluidity of thought, one can slip bonds of gravity and inertia to move impossible levels of speed and some can even outright fly. Like a telepathic single one can flow from place to place,essentially teleporting; items can also be dematerialized for easy storage. Alchemy as well as shape-shifting become possible by rendering something into a mailable state. The most basic and instinctive use is to translate mental effort into physical power, telekinesis and force-fields, the conjuration of ectoplasm. The ability to channel energy into objects increasing their potential energy or to just make them explode; yes you can be Gambit.

 

[2WayParadox]

I'm sorry to have to mention it, but there is an extraordinary amount of mistakes in your post. Your first two lines alone have missing spaces and words, incorrect spelling and strange construction.

Please reread and edit your post, it will make it much easier for us to answer to it.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

My problem with building an "abstract" magic system as opposed a very literal magic system, such as elementalism. Has been my inability to apply a logica-balance to the system. By that I mean limitations that felt like they were natural extension of the magic-system's basic premise instead of arbitery; it's magic all limitatiin and abilities are arbitery, the idea is come up with ones that don't feel like they are.

The premise of this magic system is as follows

The art is commonly called the perfecting path because it allows a practitioner to focus and take conscious controlled of the mental and physical processes. Manifesiting as feats of extreme(but physically impossible) athleticism and or mental/artistic prowess, heightened awareness that can boarder on clairvoyance ( but isn't quite there yet). At this level you are the goddamn Batman! Or your boardline superhuman badass normal of choice.

The next level up is when you tap into physical and psychic energies, this is when unquestionably supernatural abilities become available. Psychic and physical energies can be "sensed"reliably and projected outward, to heal or harm and effect the minds of others. It is at this level also when the first clairvoyance abilities are accessible. Strong psychics can peer beyond the veil and sense the hidden rhythm of the world, gaining uncanny speed and precision; basicly you get "Jedi reflexes" and maybe some other benefits . Strong Somatics can attune to the world around feeling the environment as though it was an extension of themselves; if you've ever seen a story where a character can function and fight when completely denied their sight this that ability.

The final level deals with ability to combined the psychic and somatic energy inside ones self, this is where things start to get weird. By blending the two energies one can blur the lines between mental and the physical the natural and the supernatural. Truly superhuman feats of physicality are now possible.

By invoking the freedom and fluidity of thought, one can slip bonds of gravity and inertia to move impossible levels of speed and some can even outright fly. Like a telepathic single one can flow from place to place,essentially teleporting; items can also be dematerialized for easy storage. Alchemy as well as shape-shifting become possible by rendeering matter into a mailable state. The most basic and instinctive use is to translate mental effort into physical power, telekinesis and force-fields, the conjuration of ectoplasm. The ability to channel energy into objects increasing their potential energy or to just make them explode; yes you can be Gambit.

What possible abilities of this magic system have I missed and what are limitations that would fit it.

 

[Queshire]

What immediately pops out to me is the difficulty and the level of training or dedication required to reach each level. You could have just reaching the first level qualify you to join an elite order of Knights of something while reaching the final level would be rare enough that you'd basically be considered Merlins.

Other limitations could be people born as psychic blanks immune to clairvoyance or other such powers, and a special metal that's the same, though I would also have it drain their psychic power on touch as well in order to counter their psychic buffs. Meteor iron could work for that.

If you think an anti-psychic metal would be too arbitrary you could also include the opposite, a type of crystal that increases the power of psychic powers at the risk of making both the powers and the people using them unstable.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

What immediately pops out to me is the difficulty and the level of training or dedication required to reach each level. You could have just reaching the first level qualify you to join an elite order of Knights of something while reaching the final level would be rare enough that you'd basically be considered Merlins.

Other limitations could be people born as psychic blanks immune to clairvoyance or other such powers, and a special metal that's the same, though I would also have it drain their psychic power on touch as well in order to counter their psychic buffs. Meteor iron could work for that.

If you think an anti-psychic metal would be too arbitrary you could also include the opposite, a type of crystal that increases the power of psychic powers at the risk of making both the powers and the people using them unstable.

People that are psychicly out of tune will definately be a thing, though they won't be able actively cancel out psy-effects. They are unreadable but cannnot read others at all, the only begins truly alone with their throughts.

As to being invisable to clairvoyance, that's something that i'll have to think about,being present but completely opaque works with the metahysics that I have. Anti-psychic materials makesnese if there are conducter and amplifiers then their must also be insolaters. This would also mean that there must some field of cosmic background psychic energy.

 

[WooHooMan]

I noticed some mild similarities between this and the magic system I got going. I think I might be able to help but first, can you specify why you need more possible abilities and (more importantly) why you need limitations?

 

[Logos&Eidos]

I noticed some mild similarities between this and the magic system I got going. I think I might be able to help but first, can you specify why you need more possible abilities and (more importantly) why you need limitations?

I'm looking for the holes in my premise. To elaberate, the current magic system that I have is based around five elements,fire,air,water,earth and wood; the abilities of each element are then split into exo and esoteric. With esoteric being the power abstract manifestation of an elements powers. I returned to elementalism after working more abstract psionic like magic systems.

Because with in the elements I had clearly defined powers and limitations that felt to me like a natural extension of the system; instead of just saying NO to everything that I considered problematic.

This quasi-psionic system is a more powerful extension of a "lesser" but more readily accesible form of magic than elementalism.

 

[WooHooMan]

I'm sorry, I think I'm missing something obvious. What's the objective of this thread?

Also, can you maybe summarize your system with as few words as possible? I feel like you (or rather, I) might be having trouble with this system because you're presenting bits of information in several posts instead of one clear and consice description. I find magic system work best when they're more high concept and flexible.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

I'm sorry, I think I'm missing something obvious. What's the objective of this thread?

Also, can you maybe summarize your system with as few words as possible? I feel like you (or rather, I) might be having trouble with this system because you're presenting bits of information in several posts instead of one clear and consice description. I find magic system work best when they're more high concept and flexible.

The basic premise of this system is a learnable form of psionics,as opossed to the more common purely genetic ability. The lowest levels involve the conscious control of and the focusing of ones natural mental and physical abilities.

The next level up overtly supernatural abilities are unlocked as one learns to tap into and their psychic and somatic energies; most notable a kind of clairvoyance and intuitive-reactions.

The final level deals melding psychic and somatic energies into a unified power, this enables one to blur the lines between the physical and the spiritual. At this stage the iconic PSI abilities are possible, by translating psychic energy into physical force or imposing quasi-spiritual states on to matter.

While I have ideas about what the final level let's a practitioner, comming up with "natural" limitations is what is difficult. The more I think about it the more my mind takes the system to problematic areas.

 

[WooHooMan]

How do people learn this magic?

If it's done through intellect, could the limitation be the practitioner's intelligence?
I hate to use myself as an example but in my system, "time magic" exists but to use it the wizard needs a detailed understanding of quantum mechanics, theoretical physics and general relativity. Obviously, not anyone can comprehend this kind of science and even people who can won't be able to reach complete understanding. So, the natural limit is the limit of human intelligence (individually and as a whole).
Or perhaps performing magic puts some kind of physical or mental strain that could kill a person if they go pass a certain level?

Generally-speaking, "real-world" magic (in the Occult/New Age mold) implies that the limit of a person's magic power is based on their belief, imagination and ego. To reach the fullest extent of what magic is capable of, a person would need absolute conviction, limitless imagination and no sense of egotism - which are three feats no one can pull off.

I think you might be focusing too much on "theoretical limits" and not "practical limits", you know? Just because a person could perform some feat of magic, doesn't mean they will.

Does any of this help? I'm still a little shaky on what it is exactly you're asking.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

How do people learn this magic?

If it's done through intellect, could the limitation be the practitioner's intelligence?
I hate to use myself as an example but in my system, "time magic" exists but to use it the wizard needs a detailed understanding of quantum mechanics, theoretical physics and general relativity. Obviously, not anyone can comprehend this kind of science and even people who can won't be able to reach complete understanding. So, the natural limit is the limit of human intelligence (individually and as a whole).
Or perhaps performing magic puts some kind of physical or mental strain that could kill a person if they go pass a certain level?

Generally-speaking, "real-world" magic (in the Occult/New Age mold) implies that the limit of a person's magic power is based on their belief, imagination and ego. To reach the fullest extent of what magic is capable of, a person would need absolute conviction, limitless imagination and no sense of egotism - which are three feats no one can pull off.

I think you might be focusing too much on "theoretical limits" and not "practical limits", you know? Just because a person could perform some feat of magic, doesn't mean they will.

Does any of this help? I'm still a little shaky on what it is exactly you're asking.

It helps a little.

This magic is learned as a displine, physical conditioning and mental exerises that push a person past their normal.

The theoretical limits, are something that I can't put out of mind. As I said beffore I returned to elementalism because I could see it's theoretical limits.

As for what I'm looking for help on what limits feel like a natural part some the system. And ideas on what abilities feel like they could be apart of the system.

The final tier involves combinding physical and spiritual energy into a third power. This power let's one translate psychic energy into physical force and apply quasi-spiritual states on to material things.

 

[WooHooMan]

So, how is magic performed? Incantations? Rituals?

Personally, I think you already have enough abilities in this system. The reason why people like to stick with elemental magic is because it has preset limits - it's limited to matter.
But your system even transcends the physical and human into the spiritual. I tried to suggest that the limit would be what a human is capable of but that doesn't work with "a displine, physical conditioning and mental exerises that push a person past their normal".
You've basically set-up this system to not have limits and now you're annoyed that it doesn't have limits. If you feel this is a problem, you might have to go back to square one.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

So, how is magic performed? Incantations? Rituals?

Personally, I think you already have enough abilities in this system. The reason why people like to stick with elemental magic is because it has preset limits - it's limited to matter.
But your system even transcends the physical and human into the spiritual. I tried to suggest that the limit would be what a human is capable of but that doesn't work with "a displine, physical conditioning and mental exerises that push a person past their normal".
You've basically set-up this system to not have limits and now you're annoyed that it doesn't have limits. If you feel this is a problem, you might have to go back to square one.

That about sums it up,I still have all my notes so it's not starting over from scratch.



Working from the premis These are the abilities that I came up with.

telekinesis and generating radiance ( fire,light,lightning,).

Conjuration and Manipulation of ectoplasm.

Channelling power into an object to increase it's potential energy or just make it explode.

Physical augmentation to the point of transcending the normal limits of a begin's biology.

Alchemy and shape-shifting by rendering matter into a fluid and malleable state.

Teleportation translating matter into an"ethereal" state and flowing around space at the speed of thought; this etherealization also includes dematerialization for easy storage.

One of the reasons I started working on this system was that"clicked" with the world better on levels that elementalism didn't. The outside threat to the peoples of the setting, are a race of vampiric begins that consume ,life-force,the combined mental and physical energy of other beings leaving them withered and brain damaged.

 

[LordFalco]

I first heard the word "psionic" on the old Nintendo 64 game called Wizardry. These types could drain a team member an experience level. Since that doesn't make sense in fiction, I changed it in my story to mean an alternate system available to royalty of a certain race. They use it as telekinetic attacks of to cancel another's ability to use magic. Like your system, it's an alternate to elemental magic, though I didn't round it out with any complexity. As with the elemental type, it needs a clearly defined progression and means of being taught, so it sounds like you're on the right track.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

I first heard the word "psionic" on the old Nintendo 64 game called Wizardry. These types could drain a team member an experience level. Since that doesn't make sense in fiction, I changed it in my story to mean an alternate system available to royalty of a certain race. They use it as telekinetic attacks of to cancel another's ability to use magic. Like your system, it's an alternate to elemental magic, though I didn't round it out with any complexity. As with the elemental type, it needs a clearly defined progression and means of being taught, so it sounds like you're on the right track.

I use used the word psionics because of the "flavor" that it carriers, a form of magic born directly from the soul of the practitioner tap through dedicated training or unleashed by freak occurrence. No runes glyphs or sigils, incantations or prayers;Just the focused power of the psyche.

The progression is set as is the tole that it exacts on it's practitioners, my problem is a as "WooHooMan" said that I've created a system that is in theory infinitely flexible and am annoyed by that fact.

The system was in part inspired by Aether manipulation specifically the third tier where the abilities become overtly supernatural. With in the confines of the magic system's premise,translating psychic energy into a physical phenomenon and imposing quasi-spiritual states on material things.

I cannot clearly see what this magic should and shouldn't be able to do.

 

[LordFalco]

Consider, maybe, how such a system is taught. My elemental system uses a detailed curriculum and spell book. The latter is what determines what a given spell can and cannot do. Also, individual practitioners bring their own gifts to bear: rapid repetition, altered time states to tap a higher level, the ability to create hybrid spells with other casters, etc.

Physically, the limit can be when stored brain metals, which are converted to spell energy, are exhausted for the day. That keeps a caster from being a loose cannon, since he has to make it last. As you can see, there really is no limit to any aspect that branches off from a concept. I keep spells within a character's training level and the needs of the story.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

Consider, maybe, how such a system is taught. My elemental system uses a detailed curriculum and spell book. The latter is what determines what a given spell can and cannot do. Also, individual practitioners bring their own gifts to bear: rapid repetition, altered time states to tap a higher level, the ability to create hybrid spells with other casters, etc.

Physically, the limit can be when stored brain metals, which are converted to spell energy, are exhausted for the day. That keeps a caster from being a loose cannon, since he has to make it last. As you can see, there really is no limit to any aspect that branches off from a concept. I keep spells within a character's training level and the needs of the story.

There are some naturals that can innately meld psychic And somatic energies into the third power...eveybody but them has to work at for years.
The most analogous mundane activity to the process of worker the third force(henceforth referred to as ether) would weaving. Practiotioncers learn to weave ether into a verity of different effects. Which all come from the concept of converting spiritual energy into physical peanomenon and imposing quasi-spiritual states on material objects.

Invisiblability and intagibility: both fit because things that are of aspiritual or psychic nature are nornaly both of those things.

Teleportation: fits because "freedom of thought" an object cut lose from the bonds of space,can flow anywhere. Though like a telepathic broadcast the range is limited.

Dematerialization: closely related to teleportation, because both techniques render material objects immaterial.

Alchemy and Shape-shifting: both fit to gather because they both to verying degrese change a things nature. In a dream anything can become anything else; unfortunately no material object can ever be rendered perfectly malleable.

Aumentation: probably related to shape shifting,the body can be pushed to perform at a truely super human level.

Freedom of movement: one can lesson the impact of gravity and ineratia on the body. To move with stunning grace and speed.

Pyro,electro,photo,psychokinesis: all related force/energy generating abilities, an application of translating spirit into the material.

Ectoplasm manipulation: psychic energy can focused into a semi-material and highly maleable substance.

Working with in the premis of the system.

 

[LordFalco]

Wow. That sounds like a combination of all magic systems. Maybe it's just too broad a category. Your mention of ectoplasm reminds me of a third class of magic in my world:ethereal. Think Samantha on Bewitched. Of course, such a character needs plenty of restraints to avoid being an outright god. In my version, users can create fragile, temporary objects. I even have a caster create an airy banana, which is edible, but as fleeting as cotton candy. Whatever your final solution is, you're the definitive authority on all things psionic.

 

[Logos&Eidos]

Wow. That sounds like a combination of all magic systems. Maybe it's just too broad a category. Your mention of ectoplasm reminds me of a third class of magic in my world:ethereal. Think Samantha on Bewitched. Of course, such a character needs plenty of restraints to avoid being an outright god. In my version, users can create fragile, temporary objects. I even have a caster create an airy banana, which is edible, but as fleeting as cotton candy. Whatever your final solution is, you're the definitive authority on all things psionic.

Thus you have seen my problem, a versatile flexible and powerful system of magic is just that. Figuring out it's possible application...will be problematic. Elementalism is much simpler, five element Fire,earth,water,air,wood, their abilities divided into exoteric and the more abstract and metaphorical esoteric.

Example: esoteric water holds the powers of meleablity and decay, esoteric-earth holds the powers of fortitude/ solidity and control over the principle of mass. Esoteric water and earth together enable alchemy water to completely break something down and earth to force it back together. Add esoteric wood which connects to life-force(which contains both physical and spiritual energy) you can create living and psychoreactive materials. Esoteric water and would enable teleportation and dematerialization, because wood allows waters ability to change to effect spiritual states; the only reasons earth isn't nessacery is because mater actively rescist being in a quasi-spiritual state.


While the development on the elemental magic is done and problaby what I'm going to wind up using. The idea of a more psionic magic system is something that one is more distinctive and eerie, two it on some levels fit the story and the metaphysics a little better,though I would have to rewright the cosmotheology a bit.

The main threat to peoples of the known worlds are a quasi-vampiric race who call themselves the Ma(from the Japanese word Majin),the known worlders call them demons. The Ma consume life-force and attack the known worlds in a war of religious conquest, not to convert their greatest religious leader prophsided that they would find a rich land and had divine sanction to with it's inhabitants as they willed; enslave and eat them.

Everything tiing into life-force,the magic of the setting and the inante supernatural abilities of the Ma-tribe was nice and symmetrical.

 

[WooHooMan]

Hey, have you been adding to it since you started this thread?