Shout Outs to Other Works

[Mindfire]

Continuing my recent trend of presenting open-ended questions, at what point does a shout out/reference/allusion to another work or piece of culture become a distraction from your own work, break immersion, or come off as pretentious? I figure this will probably be more of a sliding scale than a hard and fast rule. It's pretty well established that mythological allusions are acceptable, if not somewhat expected. No one would bat an eye if my story includes a dragon called Tiamat, a sea serpent named Jormungandr, or even if I include as backstory a thinly-veiled retelling of the conflict between Ra and Apep. That's not what I mean here. I'm talking about references to things created within, let's say the last century or so. Suppose on their way to the quest objective the heroes pass by a blond elf traveling with a fairy companion who won't shut up? If they are never named and the main characters don't interact with them, would you appreciate the reference and keep reading, or would you find it intrusive? Suppose the references is (marginally) more subtle? E.g., a character sees the villain's undead horde for the first time and responds, "It is an army raised for a single purpose. To destroy the world of men." I sometimes feel tempted to include little things like that (though I try to be as subtle as possible) because it makes me feel clever and more connected to the reader. If the reader appreciates the in-joke, it means they enjoyed something that I also enjoyed. It's like telling the reader, "Hey. I get you. We're not so different." But I also see the other side. The reader could find in-jokes annoying, distracting, or even alienating if handled poorly. But where's the line to be drawn? What do you guys think?

 

[Svrtnsse]

This is a bit similar to easter eggs, right?
I have one in my novel that an observant reader who've read the same books I have might enjoy, but for the most part I try to stay away from it. Presently, I feel that it's more important that the reader stays connected with the story, than that I feel clever about including obscure references that most people won't get.

Real Life Example From Today:
I'm occasionally thinking about my musical references and inspirations. I was walking around, headphones blasting and a phrase came along that sort of summed up my entire novel in two lines.
My thoughts went to how chapters or parts of books are sometimes begun with a quote from a song or a poem. Sometimes it's from a real world artist (usually for stories that take place in the real world) and sometimes it's from poems the writer made up on their own (probably more common in fantasy).
Anyway, the lines in question that came up were:

He was a boy. She was a girl.
Can I make it any more obvious?

That's basically my entire 150k word novel summed up in 15 words. It could server as the introductory quote for the whole thing, or it could serve as the quote for the big final chapter where it all goes down.
But, as this is from a really rather famous pop song from the last decade (I think, or am I getting old), I'd feel really uncomfortable including it. Partially, because it's a real world quote in a real world setting, and partially because I think quoting Avril Lavigne might give my readers the wrong impression of the story I'm about to tell them.

 

[X Equestris]

I've done a few minor references to other works. The trick is to make sure they fit in where you're putting them. A reference that's just...there is kind of jarring.

One of the references I did was in an in-universe reference work on magic and arcane creatures. This particular reference takes place in the section on vampires, and since the vampires I created for my world don't have a lot of the traditional vampire weaknesses, I had the scribe writing this piece bust a few in-universe myths about them. One of these myths, which the scribe dismisses as a ridiculous legend from a mountain tribe, is that vampires "sparkle" in the sunlight.

 

[Mythopoet]

I think it really depends on the tone you've established for the story. The Dresden Files have tons of pop culture references and it works because Harry's voice is very down-to-earth and full of humor.

Though those are much more direct references than what you seem to be talking about. Honestly, I didn't get either of the examples you mentioned. Either they are very subtle or I'm just not familiar with the work referenced. If the work is an otherwise serious work or I am supposed to be immersed in the world I think a reference to something known from this world can be distracting. It can break immersion and yank the reader out of the story. Again, I really think it mostly depends on the tone and atmosphere of the story.

 

[Garren Jacobsen]

A great example of world breaking is found in the last book of the Eragon quadology (quadogy? quadalahara?) where that female witch, Angela I think her name is, references a planet found in the Dr. Whoniverse. She says,

"Raxacori— Oh never mind. It wouldn't mean anything to you anyway."

When I read that I wanted to toss the book and never open it again. Although, since that reference is near the end I didn't I figured I had slogged through the series this far may as well finish that last 5% or so. Even still, this reference is completely immersion breaking. Something so blatant as this just ruins the illusion. Now, there have been other references in the series that are more subtle, shadows that creep could mean the Vastha Narata, men that age backwards could mean the Dr. or merlin or Benjamin Button. Rooms bigger on the inside is pretty blatant but not uncommon in a fantasy setting. So that one didn't bother me as much. So the line is a little bit fuzzy. It depends on the context of your story.

Several of my books are urban fantasy. One of which will be set in the current era. A guy gets picked up from the police force to be part of a clandestine operation monitoring the magical community. When he hears about a secret underground community he will say something along these lines, "So what they send their kids to Hogwarts and travel via chimney." That's a clear reference. But it makes sense in this setting because its set in the real world, Harry Potter is a huge pop culture icon and it only makes sense that someone would reference it in conversation.

However, I am also writing a book set in another universe. There are several magic systems none of which can make inanimate objects sentient. It wouldn't make sense for him to make a direct reference to the sorting hat, or Mount Doom, or shardblades, or gunslingers, or anything like that. Now, I could say something like:

Warrior: "Hey can you increase the gravity so I can get stronger and faster?"
Gravity Mage: "Sure I can. How much."
Warrior: "I'm thinking ten times normal."
Mage: "Are you stupid? That would crush your bones and internal organs."
Warrior: "But my enemies will be arriving within a year and I have to get an edge. Heavier gravity means I can be faster and stronger. I'll become an elite warrior that way."

I made two references in that passage. The first is to Dragon Ball Z where everyone trains under heavier gravity, the enemies coming within a year, and becoming an elite warrior. The second is to Team Four Stars abridged version of Dragon Ball Z when I say "It will crush your bones." The conversation would happen between a gravity mage and a warrior that wants to become stronger. It makes sense in world.

I suppose I have a two part test for determining if a reference makes sense:

1) Does the conversation or statement stand on its own within the story's world?

-or-

2) Is it so explicit that no other plausible interpretation presents itself?

 

[Mindfire]

Honestly, I didn't get either of the examples you mentioned. Either they are very subtle or I'm just not familiar with the work referenced.

Suppose on their way to the quest objective the heroes pass by a blond elf traveling with a fairy companion who won't shut up?

Legend of Zelda, specifically Ocarina of Time.

"It is an army raised for a single purpose. To destroy the world of men."

Lord of the Rings (the films).