Storytelling Question

[BWFoster78]

Regarding the title of the post - I just had to.

Brant is a soldier. I've been working to establish him grasping/fondling the hilt of his sword at times when he's anxious.

Part of my characterization in the book is to establish each character's place in the theme. Brant represents the viewpoint that physical dominance represents power.

Another character, Dylan, represents the viewpoint that money is power. He's a merchant. I'm working on a scene and had this thought: showing Dylan grasping/fondling his coin pouch is a good way to show his anxiety.

Question: Is the similarity between the actions of the two characters troubling to you? On one hand, I'm thinking: c'mon author, think of something original. On the other hand, I like the symmetry of how the opposing viewpoints are represented.

What say you?

Thanks!

 

[Chilari]

Point made about the title.

I quite like the symmetry, the way they each reach for that which they think gives them authority when nervous, but if you're worried about the similarities, why not keep the objects they reach for but have them act different and use different words. Like, if Brant is worried but can't talk about it and isn't busy, he'll sharpen and look after his sword. Dylan in the same situation would feel or count his money, or alternatively splash out and buy things which demonstrate his wealth, like a flashy new jacket or a ring.

In smaller moments where they can't go and do these, where someone with greater authority is making them nervous, checking the sword/coinpurse is still there and hold it tightly could be a way of bringing out the parallels, while for Brant becoming very disciplined, standing more to attention than he needs to or being snappier with responses like "Yes sir!" could hint at his nervousness, while Dylan could go the other way and become louder, friendlier, in a searching for approval sort of way, making awkward jokes, that sort of thing. That way, they've got little things that run parallel but are very distinct in the ways they outwardly express that anxiety.

 

[BWFoster78]

Chilari,

This:

I quite like the symmetry, the way they each reach for that which they think gives them authority when nervous, but if you're worried about the similarities, why not keep the objects they reach for but have them act different and use different words. Like, if Brant is worried but can't talk about it and isn't busy, he'll sharpen and look after his sword. Dylan in the same situation would feel or count his money, or alternatively splash out and buy things which demonstrate his wealth, like a flashy new jacket or a ring.

is a fantastic idea! Thanks!

 

[Devor]

I think you could decide when you want the reader to realize the similarity and make it subtle before then. Clutch the sword, fimble with the coins; that sort of thing. The reader should think "Why didn't I see that before?" when finally lead them to the connection.

Also, I don't think you need to overdo it. Even an average of once a chapter is probably too much.

 

[BWFoster78]

I think you could decide when you want the reader to realize the similarity and make it subtle before then. Clutch the sword, fimble with the coins; that sort of thing. The reader should think "Why didn't I see that before?" when finally lead them to the connection.

Also, I don't think you need to overdo it. Even an average of once a chapter is probably too much.

I get you, and I agree. Thanks.

 

[Penpilot]

I think the two contrasts are good ones. Are there other other representations of other forms of power, like knowledge?

 

[Aosto]

Brant being a soldier leads me to believe that he has had years of training. When he is anxious I wouldn't think he would have a quirk. This would have been squelched long before a quirk developed in my opinion. Now, him having the thought that physical dominance represents power can lead to a few things. For example, if he were alone and anxious/deep in thought about something you could show him working out in some fashion, or training with his sword. I don't think a seasoned soldier would fondle the hilt, he would hone his blade and train. When he is in the presence of superiors, he would have been trained to stand at attention. So fiddling with a weapon is not a great idea for him.

As for Dylan and money, I think what you have is perfect. Maybe a quirk being that he rolls a coin through his fingers. I also get a feeling that he has money and if he believes money is power then he would look down on even the most seasoned soldiers. Superiors, in his eyes, would have to be one with more wealth. Even then, he would want their wealth and so would be friendlier and more chatty with them.

 

[Devor]

Brant being a soldier leads me to believe that he has had years of training. When he is anxious I wouldn't think he would have a quirk. This would have been squelched long before a quirk developed in my opinion.

That's a really good point. What if the idea tweaked so that when he's anxious, he's just not comfortable until the sword is in his hand? As in, he may be comfortable as a soldier, but less so as a private citizen.

((edit)) I've no idea if that would actually work for the character or not, just postulating.

 

[Penpilot]

Brant being a soldier leads me to believe that he has had years of training. When he is anxious I wouldn't think he would have a quirk. This would have been squelched long before a quirk developed in my opinion.

This is a good point to bring up, but I think this something that speaks to character. IMHO if BW defines his character as having this trait then it's perfectly valid. I mean characters can have flaws. It's actually better if they do. And maybe Brant doesn't touch his sword in front of his superiors (oh gosh thisdoesn't sound right) but maybe he relaxes when he's alone. Who knows what can happen when one is out in the field and stressed. Old habits can return. I'm not too familiar with the story so... but what if he's years removed from his time in the army? He can be getting ever so sloppy. But regardless, it's still about who the character is and how BW has envisioned them, quirks and flaws all included.

 

[Benjamin Clayborne]

Just don't have them do it too often, or you risk annoying your readers.

 

[Steerpike]

Just don't have them do it too often, or you risk annoying your readers.

Just put a footnote (1) next to it the first time it occurs, and then explain in the footnote that every time from here on out that a superscript 1 appears in the text, the reader is to assume the character is fidgeting.

 

[BWFoster78]

I think the two contrasts are good ones. Are there other other representations of other forms of power, like knowledge?

Yes. The protagonist represents that viewpoint.

My biggest problem is with one of the female characters. I have some vague notion of her representing the idea that relationships are power.

The duke's daughter represents the traditional power by right and law.

 

[BWFoster78]

Brant being a soldier leads me to believe that he has had years of training. When he is anxious I wouldn't think he would have a quirk. This would have been squelched long before a quirk developed in my opinion. Now, him having the thought that physical dominance represents power can lead to a few things. For example, if he were alone and anxious/deep in thought about something you could show him working out in some fashion, or training with his sword. I don't think a seasoned soldier would fondle the hilt, he would hone his blade and train. When he is in the presence of superiors, he would have been trained to stand at attention. So fiddling with a weapon is not a great idea for him.

As for Dylan and money, I think what you have is perfect. Maybe a quirk being that he rolls a coin through his fingers. I also get a feeling that he has money and if he believes money is power then he would look down on even the most seasoned soldiers. Superiors, in his eyes, would have to be one with more wealth. Even then, he would want their wealth and so would be friendlier and more chatty with them.

I get you, but I really like the grasping the hilt. And soldiering discipline is highly variable. I don't think it's that far out of the range of possibility for him to do it.

 

[BWFoster78]

That's a really good point. What if the idea tweaked so that when he's anxious, he's just not comfortable until the sword is in his hand? As in, he may be comfortable as a soldier, but less so as a private citizen.

((edit)) I've no idea if that would actually work for the character or not, just postulating.

I was thinking more along the lines of making it an unconscious action on his part. He doesn't even realize he does it. He's in the middle of a tense conversation and his hand drifts to his sword. Obviously, if he's in uniform or in the field, that wouldn't work. That's not the case with him for the most part in my story. He's on a quest with friends.

 

[Anders Ämting]

Regarding the title of the post - I just had to.

Brant is a soldier. I've been working to establish him grasping/fondling the hilt of his sword at times when he's anxious.

Part of my characterization in the book is to establish each character's place in the theme. Brant represents the viewpoint that physical dominance represents power.

Another character, Dylan, represents the viewpoint that money is power. He's a merchant. I'm working on a scene and had this thought: showing Dylan grasping/fondling his coin pouch is a good way to show his anxiety.

Question: Is the similarity between the actions of the two characters troubling to you? On one hand, I'm thinking: c'mon author, think of something original. On the other hand, I like the symmetry of how the opposing viewpoints are represented.

What say you?

Thanks!

It migth be a bit similar. There's nothing wrong with having them mirror each other, but you don't want to make it too blatant, I think. People are going to notice that, and it seems like the sort of thing that would end up a joke among the readers. "Oh, this must be a tense scene - those two are stroking their stuff again."

A warrior touching his sword when he's nervous is pretty common, I think. I wonder if an economically-minded person would react the same way, though. Maybe he'd rather start counting things, acting a bit OCD and assessing values? Maybe he just becomes very conscious about where he keeps his valuables.

Ultimately, it's a defensive reaction. When worried, a warrior's instinct is to defend himself physically. A merchant's reaction, on the other hand, might be to minimize deficit. It's not like he's going to throw his money pouch on his enemies, rather he would want to get out of the situation with a minimum of personal loss.

 

[Penpilot]

Yes. The protagonist represents that viewpoint.

My biggest problem is with one of the female characters. I have some vague notion of her representing the idea that relationships are power.

The duke's daughter represents the traditional power by right and law.

This gave me a few thoughts. I don't know if it fits what you're going for but throwing this out there to chew on.

A little refinement, could the female represent the power of persuasion/temptation/seduction?

As for the duke's daughter, maybe power of the people, granting her the right to make law.

 

[Ankari]

I don't mind the nervous twitch of Brant's. I've read many stories where soldiers finger their hilt out of nervousness or frustration. But they are also the characters who rather talk with their sword instead of their mouths. It wouldn't make sense for a warrior finger his hilt if he is a great speaker. The only time this rule doesn't apply is when the nervous tick is associated with danger rather than social apprehension.

Dylan's nervous tick I don't like so much. I hang around many wealthy people (and I always wish I was one). They don't so much as manifest their nervousness with money, but with a luxury that is purchased through money. For instance, I know one wealthy individual who will eat at the first sign of stress. He eats very well too. Another will smoke expensive tobacco in an expensive pipe. Someone else I know will buy something expensive to rid himself of the stress.

It's not the money, but what you can do with the month.

 

[BWFoster78]

A little refinement, could the female represent the power of persuasion/temptation/seduction?

In a way. I was going for more the line from My Big Fat Greek Wedding: A man is the head of the household, but the woman is the neck.

As for the duke's daughter, maybe power of the people, granting her the right to make law.

More the power of the nobles to rule absolutely, putting her in conflict with the others who aren't noble born and are using their magic ability to establish power for themselves (the protagonist anyway).

 

[BWFoster78]

Dylan's nervous tick I don't like so much. I hang around many wealthy people (and I always wish I was one). They don't so much as manifest their nervousness with money, but with a luxury that is purchased through money. For instance, I know one wealthy individual who will eat at the first sign of stress. He eats very well too. Another will smoke expensive tobacco in an expensive pipe. Someone else I know will buy something expensive to rid himself of the stress.

It's not the money, but what you can do with the month.

I get that, but I'm trying to portray Dylan as someone who is trying to accumulate money to give himself power, not to buy things. I also kind of like the concept of: It's a tense situation, how can I use my coin purse to buy my way out of it.

 

[BWFoster78]

"Oh, this must be a tense scene - those two are stroking their stuff again."

Noted. My plan is to use these ticks sparingly, 3 to 4 times each max throughout the 130000 word book.

It's not like he's going to throw his money pouch on his enemies, rather he would want to get out of the situation with a minimum of personal loss.

Yes, but how can I buy my way out of the situation seem valid to me.