The Narrative Debacle I face

[Centinuus]

Firstly i would like to apologize if any of my ramblings in this are not to the standard of this lovely community, ive only just joined as of about an hour ago and am quite eager to become associated with fellow fantasy literature enthusiast, but i am alas unfamiliar with the etiquette or regular proceedings for how to form a topic people will be interested in discussing.
with that out of the way i wish to raise a question i find myself grappling with often when attempting to write stories around my fictional Mythos of Aphal ive been developing for about 6 years now, namely narrative.
now i am a terribly flawed author in that i lack the patience to sit and write for more than an hour or so without growing weary or doubtful if what im writing is going in the right direction, and as such most of my stories have been extremely short for my taste, but even in all my failed attempts to put the world of Aphal to the page, ive continued to develop its timeline, until now, i have a whirling cascade of thousands of years of history which have followed several key crisis and conflicts, and never quite focused on any one particular story in which i think i could focus on for long enough to write anything. in some cases ive considered accounting Aphal's history in a sort of referential text such as a history book format, or a descriptive gallery of the wonders of my world, but i find myself wishing i could assign a clear narrative to it all. its to the point where almost every tale of Aphal is related in some way or another, but they span such a long and detailed history i find it nigh impossible to recount the tales through a relatable human perspective.
so i was essentially wondering if any other aspiring authors had the same issues or if perhaps i am destined to be in this perpetual state of doubt on weather its even a story worth telling. i thoroughly appreciate any feedback on the matter and again i apologize if this rant was at all incoherent or hard to follow.

-Luke

 

[ThinkerX]

Pick an event. Imagine yourself at that event. Write.

 

[Centinuus]

As stated, my issue arises less from being able to create relatable narratives, its more so about indecisiveness about where exactly to place them within the timeline of my fictional Mythos. there are few characters throughout that have lived to see more than one of the major conflicts i would love to write about, and i feel i would miss the gravity of the conflicts that were preluded and going beyond the story i chose to tell, as i wouldnt be able to go into them with the same human level of detail.

 

[Heliotrope]

So what you need help with is story planning and plotting?

 

[Centinuus]

I suppose, indecisiveness is the key i feel to being able to unlock the potential for a story i know is within my passion project of 6 years, ive managed to produce storylines i truly enjoyed and felt had a tight plot, but thats the problem is i cant decide which to tell or quite how to tell it.

 

[Heliotrope]

Ok. So I would highly suggest start reading craft books. Writing is like any other skill, it takes some study and a lot of practice.

Some of my favourites are:

The Guide to Writing Fantasy and Science Fiction by Philip Athans
Outlining your Novel by K.M Wieland
Structuring you Novel Workbook by K.M Wieland
Save the Cat by Blake Snyder
Writing 21st Century Fiction by Donald Maas
Writing with Emotion, Tension and Conflict by Cheryl St. John
The 12 Key Pillars of Novel Construction by CS Lakin

Some study will help you to determine where the compelling story is in that mountain of history so that you can dig for it and turn it into a gem.

 

[Centinuus]

Fantastic, i appreciate the help and ill make sure to look into those, as you seem to have a understanding of my predicament. as i said im fairly fresh to the site but ive been part of several communities in the past to attempt to share what ive made in desperate search of a interested audience or at the very least like minded people who can assist me in development, so far ive got the impression that this site will be a lovely investment of time. again thank you for the assistance.

 

[ThinkerX]

As stated, my issue arises less from being able to create relatable narratives, its more so about indecisiveness about where exactly to place them within the timeline of my fictional Mythos. there are few characters throughout that have lived to see more than one of the major conflicts i would love to write about, and i feel i would miss the gravity of the conflicts that were preluded and going beyond the story i chose to tell, as i wouldnt be able to go into them with the same human level of detail.

You are worrying too much.

Big events tend to be lots of little events.

Much of what passes for 'history' is better described as propaganda, myth, or even fiction.

So start small. Again, pick an event in your worlds history. Imagine yourself present as the third spear carrier to the left, or the scribe in the back of the courtroom.

Then write. Keep it short - 5000 word range. At this point, you are concerned with the dilemma or challenge faced by this otherwise forgotten character, not the conflicts place in the larger scheme of things.

Writing short stories like this will grant you the familiarity you need to flesh out your world because you will have to make decisions in each of those stories. I speak from experience.

Decades ago, I did a great deal of world building and a little writing. I let AD&D and like games influence me overly much. Then I stopped writing for a long while. When I came to this site, I had a few finished rough drafts, some fragments, and a disorganized mess of notes. I began entering into the writing contests in the 'Challenges' section of this site, which mostly revolved around writing short stories featuring various points. I took those points, matched them against events in my worlds history, and then wrote the stories accordingly. With each story, the world became a little more fleshed out.

 

[Centinuus]

I suppose, i have written innumerable short stories and snippets of lore from my world, but i always felt ive lacked the ability to either retell the entire history ive thought up in my head in a detailed yet entertaining manner, or create a single novel which showcases my ability as a writer while picking at the "greatest hits" my world has to offer, so to speak.

to perhaps give context, my world started as a passion i had as a youth for cartography, i loved mapping my surroundings and creating maps for far off worlds and naming all of the sites and wonders, eventually, at the age of 14 i drew a map that would become Aphal. it was just a map with names at first, like all the others, but eventually i assigned meaning, and said "who named that?" and began wanting to find the answers to all my questions about this world i had hastily scribbled. eventually i had a tie to the beginning of time, and from there ive been adding to the history ever-forward for about 6 years without any regard of how i might eventually use this hobby. its only within the last couple years of grinding laborious work that ive amassed enough wealth to want to dedicate to finding a career in something i enjoy, and i enjoy nothing more than my fictional world. but even with all that being said the way ive built the world leaves little to be made story wise, i built the history as, just that, a history. influenced by its past and adding to its future. i had major storylines but they were always self contained in the mortality of those who lived to see them, and while there where echoes from them that affected and shaped future events i feel to truly capture a relatable human narrative i would need to tell it with perspective.

apologize for the rambling response.

 

[TheKillerBs]

I feel like Pot talking to Kettle here, but you really just need to buckle down and write. Perhaps those stories won't be very good, but maybe they'll come out just fine. You really won't know until you try.

 

[Centinuus]

Its not as if i havnt written anything at all, as i said ive written my fair share of small stories and snippers. its more or less that im unsure of how to convey the depth of my established Mythos while still keeping relatable perspective in attempting to create a novel of length comparable to those i admire and that gain notoriety.

 

[Penpilot]

Its not as if i havnt written anything at all, as i said ive written my fair share of small stories and snippers. its more or less that im unsure of how to convey the depth of my established Mythos while still keeping relatable perspective in attempting to create a novel of length comparable to those i admire and that gain notoriety.

What I'm getting is you have a setting with a rich and detailed history, but you don't have a story to showcases these things.

To me, it all starts with character or characters. A character and their point of view is the vehicle in which the reader rides through your world.

If you don't have a character that the reader becomes intimate with, a character with problems and which the reader cares about, you don't really have a story. You have a text book.

It's no different than taking a history text on revolutionary war, with all it's minutiae, and saying that's the world I want my story to take place. In order to turn that into a story, you need a character, real or fictional, for the reader to follow.

In addition, not every event and detail of that world will make it into the story. A world and it's history are just the setting. Story is about characters, and the word character can be a very broad term. The Ray Bradbury short There Will Come Soft Rains the main character is a house. But that's a short story, and it'd be a challenge to write a novel from the point of view.

What characters are right for the reader to experience the world through, well, that's up to you. How you go about finding this character, trial and error.

When I write, if I'm not tripping and falling on my face, I'm not trying hard enough. I find that if I'm not trying this or that, I don't know what works and what doesn't. Because what seems like a good idea in concept isn't always so when you put it into practice. The reverse is true too.

Take a look at Game of Thrones, a massive world with a deep history. The world and it's history are revealed to us through the massive cast of characters. We learn of the White Walkers through Jon Snow's story and through tales told to children like Bran. We learn of the Dothraki and that part of the world through Daenerys. And it goes on.

Find your characters. Find their desires. Find what stands in the way of them achieving their desires, and you'll find a story.

Whether it's the story you're looking for, no guarantees, because the story that ends up on the pages will always be different than the story you have in your head. Sometimes it differs in small ways, and other times it's in large ways.

 

[Centinuus]

Helpful advice, ive tried referencing other media in my efforts to form a cohesive novel but ive never wanted to blatantly rip off any type of devices such as the point of view of the aforementioned game of thrones, but borrowing less obvious devices like having the characters reference the past in ways that help contextualise the events in which the story take place are something i could attempt to incorporate more. appreciate the advice friend.

 

[ThinkerX]

(Religious) history as inspiration:
Seven Sleepers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you must connect these events...

You have a set of characters involved in an earlier historical event. Maybe key players, maybe not. Something goes wrong. They seek sanctuary in a strange place, heaped in weird stories (maybe pertaining to a still earlier event). They fall asleep, and wake up centuries later, in time to participate in the next great chapter.

Three events linked together for the price of one.

 

[Centinuus]

An interesting concept, ill attempt to frame something like that within the reason of the paramaters ive set and if i like how it looks i could make something out of it. ive already developed a unique character who would have a certain perspective on the world few else would have in relation to having seen more of Aphal than most, so ill attempt to work with it, thanks.

 

[skip.knox]

Have you shown your writing to others?

People sometimes think that getting to The End constitutes the whole of a writer's labor, but that's hardly more than the beginning. One poisonous effect of not showing your work to others, and getting back serious critiques, is exactly what you are describing: self-doubt.

We writers never think our stuff is good. Oh, we may have our moments of triumph, but for the most part we are acidic observers of our own work. I know any number of people who have "written" stories, in the sense that they got to The End and don't feel the need to go further, but who either have shown them to no one, or have shown them only to friends and family.

We have to be more than ruthless with ourselves, we must be pitiless. We need to take our work to beta readers, critique groups and, one hopes, to professional editors. Only then do we get a real perspective on how to write stories. The information is not generic, it varies from writer to writer and from various stages in a writer's career. But over time, a writer gets a sense of what Story means for him. What needs to be there. Only when one has some sort of objective standard, some external guideline or even just a honed aesthetic sense, can one really progress.

You say you have completed stories. Find some readers. Get feedback. I promise, that will help you to move forward.

 

[Centinuus]

ive put small snippets, so far only a very vauge introduction to the world of Aphal in the showcase section. i plan to show off my other short stories but the website in which ive recorded most of them has been rather unfortunately down these last couple of days. i believe youve touched on why i believe i came here, i would love to receive feedback and questions about my writing to see how it holds up in contrast to the other patrons of this site.

 

[Russ]

As stated, my issue arises less from being able to create relatable narratives, its more so about indecisiveness about where exactly to place them within the timeline of my fictional Mythos. there are few characters throughout that have lived to see more than one of the major conflicts i would love to write about, and i feel i would miss the gravity of the conflicts that were preluded and going beyond the story i chose to tell, as i wouldnt be able to go into them with the same human level of detail.

Please take my comments in the construction sense in which they are meant.

I think you are far over focused on the results of your world building and are missing the boat on what makes good fiction.

Penpilot also seems to be onto this point.

Building a history and a great world is all good fun, but it is really not the basis for good fiction.

Good fiction is based on characters that people can relate to, or care about, facing problems in achieving their goals.

History is lovely, but it belongs mostly in a history text not a piece of fiction.

People don't want to read big fictional overviews of conflicts, they want to read about people and how they struggle and succeed or fail.

For your problem, if you simply cannot escape being in love with your world and its history, I would take one of the conflicts you find fascinating and ask yourself two questions. Who has the most to lose here? And secondly, who has a good view of the most interesting elements of the conflict? That person would make a great MC.

On your second problem, "is it a story worth telling?" my suggestion would be write part of it (or all of it) and then share it with some people and ask them that question. It is very hard for inexperienced writers to evaluate themselves effectively.

Or, if you wanted to take a massive leap, you could write a piece of fiction completely unrelated to your world just to develop the skills involved without having to make the choices that involve the world you are invested in. But that would take a very serious commitment.

Of course these comments are based on the assumption that you want to share/sell your fiction. If you just write for your own satisfaction, do what makes you happy.

 

[Incanus]

Maybe another way to look at this is in terms of 'width' and 'depth'. With six years of worldbuilding behind you, I'd say you've got the width part well in hand. Unless you want to just work with that kind of material, I think that sooner or later, one way or another, you're going to have to knuckle down and pick a single time and place to set a story in, and focus on that to the (near) exclusion of all else. I think this is the way to achieve at least some depth.

I did a good year and a half of worldbuilding before I wrote a word of prose. But the material I generated in no way hampers me--I don't go searching for places in my stories to dump in all this info. Indeed, I barely reference it at all. It's there just to provide consistence and cohesion.

My experience has been a little like ThinkerX's: A good half of my world-building was done while writing a given story. I end up thinking about very different things when I'm in a POV character's head than when I'm looking at the world from a 'god's-eye' view, or a historical perspective.

 

[Centinuus]

Certainly, i think its all about being able to shift focus and using the assets i have already developed to attempt to polish a story, ive think that by placing myself in the shoes of a character as if i was them i can grasp a understand of which would be most interesting in from a narrative and entertaining perspective while still having a firm grasp and relatable humanity in reaction to the events transpiring around them. i for sure wouldnt want to try writing about something other than my world at first, as its what im most comfortable writing in from all my short stories and even then im indecisive as all hell, so writing out of my element would be a nightmare i can only imagine.