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There Be Dragons

WyrdMystic

Inkling
“What is a fantasy map but a space beyond which There Be Dragons?” — Terry Pratchett

This is a post inspired by something else in another thread, but I wanted to explore deeper.

Fantasy Maps are pretty much expected, but are they expected solely because everyone includes them? To me they are not a selling point, and like many people flick past a prologue I will flip past a map. In fact, when looking for Indie works I get really annoyed by the free sample getting taken up by lots of additional waffle at the front of the book to the point where I look elsewhere. When looking at mainstream works I don't notice the map beyond the point where I go, "Oh. A map."....next page.

Maps of Middle Earth are artistic and well made. Discworld wasn't mapped until 10 years after the Colour of Magic.

Maps are a nice to have for people who like maps, but to you — do they clarify the world you are visiting or do they stymie your imagination? Or, do you pay no heed?
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
I like maps, but I can do without them too. I usually just glance at them quickly when I open a book and then say, "That looked cool." Then, I get to reading. For actual writing purposes, having a map helps me a lot. I don't have to plot out every single place on the map for myself, just general political and geographical features. Nothing too detailed.

So I'd say, if a map's there, I'm happy to check it out, but if it's not there, I can sort of piece things together in my head on how I think things are organized.
 
I'd say they matter more the more your story depends on what's physically up next to what. The narrative itself mostly covers that, but it can be helpful to show that Gondor is right at the edge of Mordor trying to hold it back, or moreso when you have trickier plot elements about trade routes or how hard it is to find a safe path from A to B. Nothing that can't be described, and maps certainly get no points for being an original idea these days, but the more you've worked out an interaction of things the more it might help.

Plus, they look great on the background section of your author's website.
 

BWFoster78

Myth Weaver
Wyrd,

While I'm of a similar mind on my own preference for maps, I come down much differently on the issue of whether I should include them as an author. Some thoughts:

1. I'm assuming that we're limiting our discussion to epic fantasy that covers a large geographical area as a fantasy that takes place in one location has little need for a map.
2. Like it or not, you're creating a world that exists only in your mind. To fully engage the reader, you have to make that world real (granted, I try to do the absolute minimum of world-building that I can get by with, but I still have to do enough to make it real).
3. The inclusion of a map allows you to spend way less time describing the physical aspects and geography of your world.
4. A lot of your readers are going to be visual people. A map helps make the world real to them in a way you're never going to be able to accomplish with your words. To put this another way, the people who do want maps REALLY want maps.
5. Including a well done map raises your work to a more professional level. Not providing something that a lot of people expect will tend to make your work seem amateurish, kinda of like scrimping on the cover or not paying for an editor.
6. A map lends scale, scope, and context to your work and conveys information in an efficient and concise manner that can't be achieved any other way.
 

Telcontar

Staff
Moderator
I love maps, and as far as fiction goes there is something about a map that makes it much more real to me. I remember seeing a map of the landmasses and Holds in Anne McCaffrey's Pern books a long time after I'd read most of the series, and it made it all that much better. When I see a location on a map, I begin to think of all the history and the details that I know about it. Very evocative for me.

For myself, I tend to like to spread my stories out, geography-wise, and having a map helps ME keep it all straight. I can only imagine it does the same for the reader.
 

Chilari

Staff
Moderator
I love maps. I can look at maps for ages. I'm a fan of real ancient maps, like the Mappa Mundi and the Gough Map. It's not just about where things are, but also about how people view the land. The Gough Map, for example, has East at the top, and little drawings for towns and other landmarks.

Fantasy maps interest me if they're full of cool shapes and landscapes and features, though I admit to being fussy about style - I like, for example, the Middle Earth map, but I'm not a fan of full colour maps. Don't mind contour maps if they're all black and white and not too modern, but prefer things like hills and mountains to be drawn representatively.

I like to see where things are in relation to each other. This translates into my ancient history studies too - I find it easier to understand relationships between city states in Greece when I know where they are and what the landscape around them is. Sparta is isolated, a plain ringed by mountains and far from the sea. The culture reflects that - low reliance on ocean-trade and no navy, army a big deal, culturally isolated, a deliberate decision enabled by the geography which means they didn't use coins or build great architecture as found elsewhere, reliance on a large slave population kept in line by the highly militarised elite citizen class and prevented from escaping by the geography. Contrast Corinth, located on a thin strip of land connecting two parts of Greece, wealth built on trade, huge navy, two successful island colonies which likewise had huge navies, good soil and lots of natural springs make it self-sustaining and the acropolis very defendable, and the geography of the area make it a huge military, naval and ocean-trade asset. These benefits made it wealthy, but also made it a prime target when Greece was being invaded in the Hellenistic period - and made its destruction at Roman hands a death blow to the Achaean League of which it was only one small part. All of the information makes so much sense when you can see in a map what the land looks like; it all clicks into place with one simple visual clue.
 

WyrdMystic

Inkling
As is the way of the world, my opinions differ. Approaching from an author's point of view, I don't think they can in any way be used to get your writing off the hook. The story needs to be exactly the same with or without a map, which means putting just as much effort into the detail.

There will be people who love maps and people who don't. I don't. I'm not including a map in my first works, as that would be an anachronism in the context of the story. I may do later in other works. I don't think that in anyway has any bearing on professsionalism. It's literally just a style choice.
 
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Steerpike

Felis amatus
Moderator
There are plenty of excellent fantasy works that don't have maps, so I don't think the idea that a book without a map will be seen as less than professional. If a map is included, it should be an entirely optional 'extra' for the reader, and not a crutch the writer relies on to avoid conveying information in the narrative. I don't care much about maps. Most of the time I just glance at them once, when I open the book, and that's about it. In some cases, I'll refer back during the story, but not very often, frankly.

EDIT: Joe Abercrombie has an interesting post on this: http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2007/10/02/maps-craps-2/
 

Kit

Maester
Sometimes it's helpful, although I do not tend to look at them until I have read part of the book and have some idea of the landscape already.

I will not be including a map in my WIP because most of it is set in a swamp, and the terrain is constantly shifting.
 

Sparkie

Auror
There's only one set of books that ever made me care about maps, and that was the Brian Jacques' Redwall stuff I read when I was a kid. In adulthood, I find maps in novels just about useless.
 

Wanara009

Troubadour
My root is Speculative Evolution and knowing the lay of the world is important in that genre. If one want to make a creature to present to a speculative evolution crowd, one is expected to think not only about the world but also the solar system as a whole.

So yeah, I like making and looking at maps though I'm bloody terrible at the former. However, I don't think the lack of map automatically detract from a work of fiction, so long the geography is kept consistent.
 

Philip Overby

Staff
Article Team
Abercrombie's blog post about it that Steerpike posted covers how I think mostly about maps. I don't hate them, but trying to figure out exactly where every single location in my novel is gives me a headache. He makes a good point about his world being more focused on his characters' daily struggles more than an epic journey that traverses an entire world. I think maps can help enhance certain types of books if the style sort of works with that. I think Martin's world is suitably epic and has lots of political stuff going on, so it makes sense for his books to have maps. However, if the story is focused on a small group of characters doing things that really only effect their immediate area, a map may not be necessary (or in the case of Abercrombie's publisher) wanted.

P.S. If you want to see a boatload of maps, check this out! There's a video at the bottom that shows all the maps being unfolded. I remember seeing this a while back and thinking, "Wow, that's a lot of maps."

The Lands of Ice and Fire (A Game of Thrones): George R.R. Martin: 9780345538543: Amazon.com: Books
 

Jabrosky

Banned
I draw fantasy maps for the sheer pleasure of it, but I have found that putting too much detail into them (especially before doing the actual writing) can both distract me from the writing process and constrain my storytelling opportunities. Abercrombie also raises a valid point about how drawing maps of whole worlds can affect our story's scale. The more of my world that I map, the more obligated I feel to explore every corner of that world in my story.
 
I'm thinking the key issue might be convenience. For the writer.

That is, if you have the skills or a friend who can make a map easily, it's probably worth it-- if you're sure you get a decent map; a bad one is a definite point against you. If you don't, it's more work than it's probably worth. (Though a world built out of complex geopolitics might be worth looking a bit harder for one. And if there's a software that can create that map look without a trained artist, that changes a few things-- but it might still suck up more time than less map-centered stories could gain from.)
 

Chilari

Staff
Moderator
That's a good point. If it's easy to create a good map, and there are enough distinct locations that one will be useful to the reader, then there's no reason not to include one. If the whole story takes place in one village miles from anywhere, or within the same city, then there's no need; the map would be irrelevant. And if you can't draw and don't have any friends who can, it could well be more trouble than it's worth.

I can draw (well, sometimes) and I quite like drawing maps. I particuarly like inking - I like the preciseness of the action and the crisp look of the result; if someone else did sketches I could ink them all day. And generally my stories take place across enough of a geographical range, or have geography brought up within them, to make drawing a map worthwhile. So I draw maps. I generally go through several versions before deciding on a "final" version - considering different elements, changing the journey time in a story and thus the distance on the map, aesthetic reasons, correcting earlier mistakes, increasing accuracy and so on. But I have hundreds of maps - hand drawn, computer generated; sketched with biro in a notebook or in pencil in my sketchbook. Few are inked.
 

SeverinR

Vala
Only one story of mine has required a map, and the program I used allowed me to have a triad of places just the right distance apart and see how it would work out so time travelled would work properly.

I usually don't pay to much attention to maps, they are window dressing pretty much. Sometimes if I can't remember how the different lands are positioned and it matters to the story, then I will look.

Game of Thrones map helps as the characters are travelling across the country alot. The storm is coming and so many factions involved in the fight for the throne(Speaking from only season 1, so if this doens't apply for end of season II, thats why I said it.)
 

topazfire

Minstrel
I love maps and I am certainly one of those readers who flips back to the map to check the location of a place when it is mentioned. Maybe this is partly because of my profession as a travel agent? I am surrounded by maps all day and actually have two different ones on this very desk.

For those of us who are visual readers, maps make it easier, and sometimes essential, for us to truly understand where cities, towns, and geographic features are in relation to each other.

As a writer, I have a hand scribble map of my own for my WIP. Though I do not believe that the map is a reflection of the quality or professionalism of the writing or creativity, I do feel that it is an important aspect of the finished work as a whole. Without this point of reference, some readers will get frustrated and may give up on your work if you have not adequately described your world to their satisfaction. Even if you can picture it in your head, not everyone can.

I would rather have someone who does not want or need a map to just flip over that page, than to isolate a reader who needs and wants that map as a visual tool and compliment to the writing itself.
 

Phietadix

Auror
I'm also somone who will flip back to the map to see where something mentioned in the book is. I think some books need maps, and almost all fantasy books would be better with a map.
 
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