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Tweaking Everyday Morality and Politeness

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
Unless I'm completely mistaken, it's commonly seen to be polite to offer to help someone when you see them struggling or working on something. For example you might offer to hold up a door for someone who's got their arms full, or if you're tall you might help a short person reach something from the top shelf.
Maybe you've been to a friend's place for a meal and you offer to help them do the dishes afterwards (you may not want to, but you're offering anyway, because it's the polite thing to do).

In my current WiP I'm trying to tinker with this a little bit.

Instead of offering to help, you avoid doing it, as offering your help might put into question the abilities of the person you're helping*.
In addition to that, it's considered a compliment to be asked to help out. If someone asks you for help, it means they're confident enough with your friendship that they're prepared to cause you the added inconvenience of helping out.

Another example.
When my character arrives with the horses in a new village, her first priority is to seek out a representative of the village. She's doing that, not to ask for help or for somewhere to stable the horses, but to give the village a chance to offer their hospitality (including caring for the horses etc).

These are small details, but I'm hoping that they'll help to add a little bit of depth to the culture my story is taking place in. There aren't any humans in the story, and there's little reason for the characters to observe the visual non-human characteristics of the race, so I'm hoping to put in a little bit of cultural differences instead.

Is this something you're doing in your stories, and how? What's your thought on it and what are your experiences? Do you have any advice on pitfalls to try and avoid?


EDIT: *Footnote.
Apparently this is something that often happens to people with various forms of visual disabilities. They're offered help with things they're perfectly capable of doing on their own, just because they look like they might have difficulties. Sometimes even without asking.
I've heard more than one story from people in wheelchairs who have had strangers start pushing them up hills they're perfectly capable of getting to the top of on their own. It becomes humiliating and a bit awkward.
 
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Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
I think this is a wonderful idea and a way to show differences between cultures that doesn't in any way turn into a veiled racism of any sort. By that I mean it's easy to notice someone's different by how they look and i never liked that as a means of distinguishing people as "not fitting in". I love this concept of her being different in such a small way but its impact can be great (I mean big). I remember a similar story my friend told me when dining with his Asian friend's family one time. He ate very scrap on his plate and the wife came and refilled it. SO he ate another plate, and she did the same. After the second refill, his friend leaned over and said if he was finished, he should leave a small bit of food to signal he'd eaten his fill! In America, we're told that cleaning our plate is a compliment, and he was only trying to tell her that he was well pleased with the meal, but she took his sign as hunger, because in her culture, you should leave a little if you're full. How funny our cultural gestures can be seen as communicating what we don't mean to! And it can lead to a certain amount of awkwardness in the end. I DO use similar concepts in my writing, and i love that subtle way of injecting not only humor but world-building into scenes where characters are trying to stay focused on their goals, but struggle with some of the more basic elements of being human (or whatever, since you aren't writing humans).
 

Trick

Auror
EDIT: *Footnote.
Apparently this is something that often happens to people with various forms of visual disabilities. They're offered help with things they're perfectly capable of doing on their own, just because they look like they might have difficulties. Sometimes even without asking.
I've heard more than one story from people in wheelchairs who have had strangers start pushing them up hills they're perfectly capable of getting to the top of on their own. It becomes humiliating and a bit awkward.

First, I love the idea. I do think it will give your readers a taste of a cultural difference without being jarring - not an easy thing to do with made-up cultures.

As for the footnote - I know this to be true. Not from personal experience so much as adjacent experience. My father is physically handicapped. He is post polio and walks with two canes. In his younger years, 20- 40ish, he was much more physically capable but his condition worsens with each passing year. Eventually, he will need a wheelchair. His biggest pet peeve is when strangers hold doors open for him. As an old fashioned man, he never wants help that he doesn't absolutely need but the real kicker for him is that he walks slowly. If he's ten or more feet from the door and someone stops to hold it open for him, he feels the need to speed up; which he really can't do and then he just feels like he's being treated as an invalid while also inconveniencing someone. If I, or another of my brothers, help him, he's fine with that. He views it as our duty. In icy parking lots, he'll even ask that we walk next to him and hold his arm. If someone else just came up and did that without his request, they'd stand a good chance of getting caned. Because of all of this, I often subtly watch people with physical disabilities but I don't rush to help until I feel they will injure themselves without it, though I may quietly offer it. I know that helping them when they don't need it is often embarrassing and condescending. But I stand by to catch them, just in case.
 
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Caged Maiden

Staff
Article Team
Speaking of that, I do the same. There was an elderly woman in a motorized cart for shopping, the one with the basket. She was trying to stand up to get something from a high shelf and I just parked my kids and asked, "May I reach that for you?" I try not to assume people are incapable, but on the other hand, I appreciate it when a person (man or woman) holds the door for me with my stroller, or whatever. I mean, it's less about seeing someone as incapable, and more about being a good citizen. I'd hope if I held the door for Trick's dad, he'd know by my smile that I'm just a warm and friendly person and I know we could all use a hand sometimes. I mean, I do the same now for moms with strollers and just smile and say, "May I get that for you?" and she usually sighs and says thanks. Then I can point to my four little ducklings behind me and say, "We've all been there. You have a splendid day."

I prefer to believe that a kindness isn't about proving your better or someone else can't do something, but just making a small connection, a minute connection to another person and that it's a way of protecting the world I want to live in. I wouldn't want to live in a place where a man (or any person, now that I mention it) would stand by and let a door close in my face because my arms are wrapped around a sleeping child I'm trying to carry. Or where a lady in a motorized shopping scooter would think i'm trying to prove something by helping her reach something. I certainly understand the feelings behind it, but I just hope that whenever I overstep (if I do) that people can just know by my face and voice that I'm a mom and we fix things and do things, and we do it for ourselves sometimes and lead by example, and it's hard to put that away sometimes. I also smile and talk to other people's kids in the store or out and about. I guess another thing people could freak about, but I just feel it my duty to be a good citizen wherever I go. Maybe some folks don't really want that, but I do.

I watched Brain Games, an episode on "compassion" and it was really interesting. See the point was that people maintain a negativity after being slighted, but even a stranger's un-related kind gesture can soften those feelings of hurt and disrespect, and heal the individual who has had a bad event or negative interaction that day. Some people, if they say, saw a kid fall on the ground, would not notice. Others would want to help but be put off by the societal taboo of touching kids not their own. I think most parents, it's just instinct to pick the kid up, even if mom'e in view, and just say, "Hey now, are you okay?" and wait for mom to come dust them off. I'm kinda that sort of person, and it doesn't matter if it's a kid, or an able-bodied person (okay, I am speaking figuratively there, I wouldn't pick a brawny beefcake up and ask if he's alright, I'd probably just pretend I didn't see, but if he dropped something, I'd pick it up for him), or an elderly person in need of a hand, or heck, even an animal. Yep, I stop traffic for ducks in the road, too. I mean...who would be heartless enough to run a bunch of ducklings down? But I do respect folks who are made to feel crippled by other people's too-attentive attention. I had a friend who was a parapalegic (sp.) and he was 25 or something, and he often felt like the attention he drew made him something other than a normal young guy, which really made me feel bad for the effect. I think exploring this in a novel is a great idea. I'm not sure many people would be offended by it if it's a cultural thing, not simply pertaining to helping "those who look in need", which I can sympathize rubbing on a raw nerve.

Thanks for sharing, Trick
 
Others have already stated this, but I definitely think that it is a great way to show the subtle differences in cultures. It reminds me of countries in Europe where tipping is considered to be rude. Keep going, you are definitely on the right track :D
 
I consider myself a misanthrope so I certainly enjoy the shaking up of the expected behavior of "polite" society.
 

Bruce McKnight

Troubadour
I've never tried anything like this, but I might steal it :) I think the biggest key is consistency - it any part of the culture doesn't support this, it will be very jarring. I think you will need to consider how this will impact every aspect of daily life; here are some questions I had:

How would this apply to bartering? Would it be insulting to try to haggle since everyone wants to be deemed fully self-sufficient?

General military tactics lean towards teamwork to the highest degree - would this culture be different? Would there be more one-on-one fights between champions (or even the rulers themselves) to settle disputes rather than wars between armies?

Would citizens of a city take the presence of a city guard to be insulting?

What about birthdays? Would anyone bring gifts? How about housewarming presents?

What about gambling? Would their table talk or would that seem disingenuous? This applies to all sorts of good-natured ribbing that men do (I once heard a great observation that said "men bond by insulting each other, but they don't mean it - women bond by complimenting each other, but they don't mean it").

Would there be musical bands and orchestras or just solo musicians?

How would institutes of higher learning function if no one wanted to ask questions - would that be a "safe zone" for not being self-sufficient?

What about apprenticeships - would they be different? Would it be assumed that apprentices would act like they know it all while quietly observing their masters to try to learn and then testing their methods alone when no one was around?

If you were in a bathroom stall and realized too late that there was no toilet paper, what you do in a culture where no one asked for help!?
 

Svrtnsse

Staff
Article Team
Those are some really good points to consider. Most of them aren't relevant to the story I'm writing, but they're still things to consider for the world and culture it takes place in - as there will be more stories set in it.

As you say, consistency is probably important. Then again, there's bound to be inconsistencies and irrationalities in our "moral codes" as well - things that we don't consider because we take them for granted, but that don't really make sense from a logical point of view.
I'm not coming up with any right now (I'm supposed to be working), but I'm sure they're there. ;)
 

SeverinR

Vala
In some cultures, especially war based beliefs, they tend to think helping the weak as being weak. The strong rule, the weak are meant to be ruled, the strong get to choose who should die, who should be rewarded, and any weakness could draw attack from wanna-be leaders. Sick and extremely weak should be culled to save resources for the masses.

Remember in some cultures a loud belch is a compliment to the cook, stifling the belch would be an insult.
Figure out why and you can make morality, politeness, ethics work for your society.
 
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