What do I say to someone who's afraid of writing minority characters?

[Feo Takahari]

Because this seems to be a ridiculously common thing. I'll use one typical post as an example:

I don't know if afraid is the word but I'm becoming wary of writing "representative" characters (POCs, trans, etc.). It just seems like there's no way to do them "right" without getting absolutely piled on.

I mean I make characters first, not tokens. The whole "just make sure they're actual characters -- good characters -- and you'll be good" is bullshit. If they're not perfect, then you're doing it wrong and you get piled on. If they are perfect, then you're doing it wrong and you get piled on. There is literally no way to do it right where people leave you alone.

I don't need that kind of shit so I'm just avoiding doing it at all.

I'm not really sure what's so scary here--it's not like writing a whole bunch of white men makes you immune to being dumped on for saying stupid things--but since it keeps coming up, I feel like I ought to have some response to it. What on Earth should I say?

Edit @Jabrosky: I'd prefer not to state where I saw this, so as to avoid bringing drama from one site to another. I've seen similar posts in quite a few places, including Mythic Scribes.

 

[Jabrosky]

Where on the Internet was this particular post? I might be able to talk it out with that writer, since they might need an ear less hostile than the stereotypical "social justice warrior".

Mind you, Feo, I'm not saying you specifically are a stereotypical SJW, but you do seem a little, uh, put off by that passage you're quoting.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

If the poster wants to be left alone, they're in pursuit of the wrong profession.

Art is going to be criticized, no matter what. If you aren't willing to put yourself out there...I mean really put yourself out there, then what's the point? An artist's best work is often that piece where they took risks.

As long as the artist tries to understand their subject matter, or character in this case, I don't see an issue. If they want to avoid criticism, they could try to play it safe and never do work of any importance or power, but they'll probably simply wind up in obscurity.

Which is worse?

 

[Devor]

If you actually want to talk to the person, and get out of the internet-refute-thing, the first thing to do is to acknowledge the validity of the statement.

Because in fairness, it is valid. It's just a question of how valid. Is it a pebble of a point or a boulder? Is it frequently that drastic or only on rare occasions? Even if you think it doesn't happen often, even if in reality it doesn't happen often, that doesn't mean it won't happen to him. Some people are like magnets for these things, whether they deserve it or not.

What I mean is, if you want to change someone's mind, you don't need to put down the point they're making. You don't need to invalidate their feelings, their perceptions, their world view.

Yes it happens, people will give you hell for anything. But there are great benefits to doing it. And there are some easy ways to minimize the pitfalls - both legitimate and perceived - that those complainers are referring to. That's what works.

That's, y'know, Persuasion 101.

 

[Philip Overby]

Art is going to be criticized, no matter what. If you aren't willing to put yourself out there...I mean really put yourself out there, then what's the point? An artist's best work is often that piece where they took risks.

This is something I think people are deathly afraid of for some reason. They don't want to offend or misrepresent. But your art is your art. People pick apart everything. I mean if a dress is black and blue or white and gold. It's unavoidable. If this person is seriously interested in representing certain kinds of characters, then, I don't know, read books that have gotten praise for utilizing these kind of characters. What did the writers do successfully? What did they do strangely?

Sure, it's good to be as representative as you can. But maybe you should be somewhat familiar with certain kinds of people before you start writing about them. Or write to your best ability. This may require you to read, listen, and watch. That's how all writers grow. We're observant as hell.

Believability is becoming a bigger and bigger thing for audiences these days. Even in fantasy. It's just about making the best character you can, listening to criticism, and trying new things. If this person keeps running into people "piling on" then perhaps these people aren't the target audience.

For example, I write dark comic fantasy. I'm not going to go on a romance forum and share my ideas with people. They're not my audience. There may be no convincing them that what I'm doing is cool.

I just feel if this person is trying to please a certain community of people, then it may be a long uphill battle. He or she has to accept the criticism and ask questions instead of throwing hands up in the air and saying "I'm not doing it."

Edit: I'd like to also add that learning about people different than you can be one of the most exciting things about being a writer. Sure, you may screw up the representation sometimes, but you only learn by doing.

 

[Jabrosky]

In fairness, while no art should be exempt from criticism, the special problem with this particular theme is how intertwined with morally charged politics it always has been. If you think it's painful to have your prose or plotting picked apart, wait until you have your character attacked with accusations that you're endorsing the oppression of women, non-Europeans, gender and/or sexual minorities, or any other "underdog" demographic. No one wants to be seen as the bad guy.

 

[Philip Overby]

If people say these kind of things all the time, maybe the problem isn't that they're hyper-sensitive. Try to understand why they may say these things. Respond to criticism thoughtfully and think "Why do people keep saying these things about my work?" Understand that if you tackle topics that may be controversial in some aspect, then you're going to get more criticism heaped upon you. You can dial back certain elements of art and still get your point across. But if your ultimate goal is to ignore all criticism anyway, then it doesn't matter what people say.

I think figuring out an audience is one important aspect of writing that is often ignored. If you're writing certain kinds of characters that seem to be putting people off, then they're certainly not your audience. But if it seems like almost everyone is put off by it, it may be time to analyze what you're doing.

I'll give an example on my end. When I was younger, I wrote very polarizing fiction in my creative writing classes. One girl wrote on my manuscript, "You should be in a mental hospital." Others said that my writing made them ill. At the time I was writing "shock horror" that used a lot of very controversial themes in it (I won't go into what they were, but they were pretty extreme). At one point I thought to myself, "Is this really what I want to be writing? Who is the audience I'm writing this for?" While my fiction still has horror elements, it's definitely dialed back significantly. I'm still writing what I want to write but without the effect of making 99 percent of people uncomfortable with it. There's certainly a niche for everything, but if you want to have people praise your writing and characters, then that may be one thing to really think about long and hard.

Writers may ask themselves: "Am I alienating a huge section of my potential audience? And if so, am I OK with that?"

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

...while no art should be exempt from criticism, the special problem with this particular theme is how intertwined with morally charged politics it always has been...

This is nothing new to modern times or modern issues. Art has always been treated in this manner.

People can pick apart anything they like from my writing...prose, characters, plot.... If I put something out there, it's all fair game. I'd rather not be scared of what someone may think of my creation.

"You should be in a mental hospital."

I can see that.

 

[Feo Takahari]

I think figuring out an audience is one important aspect of writing that is often ignored. If you're writing certain kinds of characters that seem to be putting people off, then they're certainly not your audience. But if it seems like almost everyone is put off by it, it may be time to analyze what you're doing.

As a slight aside, it might also be worth considering whether "everyone" is really everyone. I've been watching folks on Tumblr crow over driving David Gaider off the site, but I've also seen a lot of minority members praise the characters he and other Dragon Age writers have created. Some sites, like Tumblr and Twitter, are great for creating an apparent force multiplier where it seems like a particular viewpoint is more prevalent than it really is, and deciding not to engage on those sites doesn't have to mean giving up on your ideas.

 

[Penpilot]

I've heard some people say that the worst possible reaction to a story is no reaction at all, positive or negative. It means your story didn't stir up any emotion at all. It's tasteless like eating rice crackers.

As someone who would be considered a POC, I'm Chinese, when I encounter an Asian in books, movies, or TV, I really-really only care about the character being written as a person that is true to themselves. I don't care if they're whitewashed or have accents etc.

IMHO if the writing is good everything else will take care of itself. If it's bad, well, you're probably offending more than just the minorities. I think a part of it is figuring out the truth of the character and their backgrounds, so that it doesn't ring false.

There's a comedian named Russell Peters. His shtick is he pokes fun at ethnicity. (There are youtube videos of his bits if anyone is interested.) He's of Indian heritage and his jokes about Chinese people are some of the funniest I've ever heard. Why? Because they poke fun at a truth without being mean or cheap.

And I think that's the most important thing, don't be mean or cheap.

As for not receiving criticism, take the most well received movie, book, or tv show, then go look at all the one star ratings on Amazon, or go find all the blogs that rant about how crappy those things are.

Write a terrific book, you'll be praised and criticised. Write a crappy book, you'll be praised and criticised. The only way to avoid criticism is to never show you writing to anyone ever. Or to just simply quit writing.

It's late, and I'm not entirely sure if this adds up to much or makes a good point on anything. Hopefully it does.

 

[Hainted]

Let me say something, I am a White Straight Southern Male in the United States and just by getting up in the mornings I am responsible for all the problems in the world. You're going to offend someone no matter what you write. The biggest difference is what the criticism is and where it's coming from.

i.e. : White straight people saying they were offended by an African-American Gay character I wrote. Sorry, you go in the ignore file. You're not a part of either culture so you don't get to be offended on their behalf.

Now if an African-American or Gay person started criticizing then I would engage them, ask what I portrayed wrong and what I needed to understand about their experiences before I use the character in the future. If they are genuinely concerned they will engage back.

And people that say I shouldn't write characters of other orientations/cultures/races I just shoot back they shouldn't write aliens/elves/vampires/etc since they aren't any of those things either.

 

[Mythopoet]

Honestly? I think you should leave them alone. They have a valid point and if they just aren't comfortable with "representative" characters then they shouldn't have to write them. It's their business.

 

[Nimue]

I feel like there are people who spend a lot of time worrying about and getting defensive over writing diversity, yet they won't put any time into actually researching whether or not what they're writing is offensive. At that point, you're just constructing a bogeyman. Do some research! You have to be willing to listen to and value the viewpoints of people who have different experiences than your own--and if you can do that, you will gain confidence in what you're writing.

Are the answers you find going to be perfect? Probably not. But it's a damn sight better than writing like you have all the answers in your own head.

...I feel like the outrage this person is anticipating is at least a little imaginary. I mean, if you're an indie writer and you put a book up with a bad stereotype character in it, there's no way the hordes of Tumblr are going to go hunt you down. Hashtag campaigns against your book are only really a problem if you and your work are famous. Do you really want to go down the line of "I won't write this because if I'm really successful, there might be people who harass me..." If you're really successful, people will harass you about something. Don't let that get in the way of trying new things in your writing, for goodness's sake. If you play it completely safe all the time, all you're going to get is pablum and unoriginality.

I can understand anxiety, but this reaction is depriving writers of the chance to grow. Diversity can be used to reach out to readers, and think of the richness it brings to your writing, the chance to explore new perspectives. Think of the worlds you can get when you blend fantasy with cultures and ways of life that haven't been done to death in mainstream culture! It makes me sad that people are thinking about this issue with fears and negativity when it seems so damn awesome to me. If you're willing to learn and listen, you have nothing to fear.

 

[Philip Overby]

I'd like to address Feo's original post by saying how I might talk this particular person about including diversity in fiction. There is really no broad stroke way of doing it. So I'd like to talk about this particular writer's experience (I'll pretend like I'm addressing him or her directly):

I don't know if afraid is the word but I'm becoming wary of writing "representative" characters (POCs, trans, etc.). It just seems like there's no way to do them "right" without getting absolutely piled on.

There isn't any one way to write any character "right." Your definition, my definition, and a hundred other random people's version of "right" is always going to be different. I'm curious what you mean by "getting piled on." Are hundreds of people swarming over your work? As Nimue said, it may be in your head a little bit.

Also, could you describe the character(s) that you feel are getting piled on? Maybe I can help you figure out what people may be getting hung up on. I'm no expert by any means either, but it helps to sit down with people and see what it is that is bothering them.

I mean I make characters first, not tokens. The whole "just make sure they're actual characters -- good characters -- and you'll be good" is bullshit. If they're not perfect, then you're doing it wrong and you get piled on. If they are perfect, then you're doing it wrong and you get piled on. There is literally no way to do it right where people leave you alone.

Design the characters the way you want, put them out there for the world to enjoy, and see what your reviews say. See what the audience that is buying your fiction says. Are they echoing the same concern? If your issue is with, let's say, a dozen or so people on a social network or forum, are they completely representative of how all people will feel about your characters? It's best to put your fiction out there for as wide a base as possible and see the reception.

I don't need that kind of shit so I'm just avoiding doing it at all.

That's certainly an option, but let me offer an alternative.

Pick out some books. Make sure they're:

1. Written by someone from a different race, gender, etc. than you
2. Written about some characters from different races, genders, etc. than you

This will allow you to see how other people are executing handling these kind of characters. You may also learn more about yourself as a writer. Do you like stories with characters different than you? Why or why not? How would you tackle the same characters from your perspective?

This could be an exercise to help expand your understanding of why people may feel a certain way about the way you represent certain kinds of characters.

This is an option anyway. It's not law. Ultimately you have to decide how you want your characters to be portrayed. No other person can decide that. They can only share their concerns.

Hope this helps.

 

[Reilith]

I will try to keep this short and simple. You don't like it, don't read it. There is no point in attacking a person for their beliefs, it will only be a useless waste of time. When it comes to the people of the internet, you can't not see them, but you can choose not to engage them. I am active on tumblr for 7 years or so, and I've seen it all. I don't agree with some of it, but I am not going to spend my precious time fighting over it with an unknown person kilometers away about out opinion difference. I am not going to change my opinion, and they are certainly not going to change theirs. So eff them I say.

As in writing any type of minority in your work, do it the way you want it. There are always going to be people who are not going to like something you write, and there are always going to be the ones who do. Every writer should know how to deal with criticism, good and bad, and with haters. You don't sit down and count every bad comment made by a bunch of people on the internet and then weep for it. You write because you want it, and like it so, so don't let anyone stop you from doing it.

Some people asked me why I chose to write a gay male character in fantasy. There is more than one answer to that (I don't see gay male MC's that often, I liked what I read before with that theme, I want to show the struggles of a homosexual person that are real in our world, but show in a fictional etc.) but the main one is: I like it. I am going to do my best, and if I go down in flames for it, I will gladly do so, because I was true to my writing. If not, even better.

In the end, this wasn't that short and simple after all.

 

[skip.knox]

It's significant to me that the original post says the person avoids trying. I read this as they actually have not *experienced* these criticisms, only that they are afraid of them.

If you have written a work and have been piled on, then okay, you can react. People here have different opinions on how or even whether to react, but that's individual. Some people take criticism better than others. Some are going to fall apart no matter what the criticism is.

OTOH, if you haven't even written and published such a work, then I'd say there may be other issues at play here, and a rather different conversation needs to take place.

 

[Jabrosky]

As a slight aside, it might also be worth considering whether "everyone" is really everyone. I've been watching folks on Tumblr crow over driving David Gaider off the site, but I've also seen a lot of minority members praise the characters he and other Dragon Age writers have created. Some sites, like Tumblr and Twitter, are great for creating an apparent force multiplier where it seems like a particular viewpoint is more prevalent than it really is, and deciding not to engage on those sites doesn't have to mean giving up on your ideas.

In principle, consulting actual members of marginalized groups for opinions on offensiveness sounds like a great idea, and it's intuitively more sensible than consulting people not in those groups. The catch comes in when you consider that marginalized groups are rarely a monolithic hive mind, and that many of the activists claiming to represent them are only one vocal subculture (or rather assortment of subcultures). If anything, these activists are quick to dismiss any disagreements from their own "tribe" as victims of internalized oppression, as if they believed there was only one thinking pattern acceptable within their larger demographic. Which, I have to say, sounds suspiciously like stereotyping dehumanization.

In some cases, there's an apparent double standard over who gets to say or write what, with in-groups getting a pass over out-groups. Food metaphors for skin color, which I mentioned in another thread, are apparently one example of this, since apparently non-European writers are given a pass that their European brethren can't. Not that the thinking pattern is completely incomprehensible to me; I honestly would feel more comfortable joking about my own Asperger's than I would if a "neurotypical" (i.e. non-autistic) made fun of it. On the other hand, if you find enough people within a group who don't share the activist consensus on what's offensive---say, finding plenty of black people who don't have qualms about non-blacks using "cocoa" as a descriptor*---you have to question how representative the activists' perspectives really are.

And of course this is all assuming those perspectives are even rational or justified in the first place.

* Though to clarify, while I have used "cocoa" as a descriptor in the past after seeing African-American writers use it for their own characters, I've decided it isn't the best metaphor even without the politicized interpretations. It does reference a plant of Central American, rather than African, origin after all.

 

[Svrtnsse]

I think part of the issue is with how to handle criticism. The characters we create can be a part of ourselves or come from who we are. If we then receive criticism about how we portray those characters it puts into question our image of who we are as people.

I think this is something that lies close to why men often are nervous about how to portray women.
I like to consider myself a nice guy and I like to think I create meaningful female characters that have their own roles to play. If I write a female character that I take some pride in, that I like, and that I consider meaningful and someone comes along and tears it down for being a stereotype or for objectifying women or some other reason. They're not just saying that I've failed at portraying my character; they're also saying I don't understand women and they're saying that my character is an example of something that I as a person is principally opposed to.
In short, they're saying I'm not the nice guy I think I am.

This is something that I've occasionally struggled with myself, but that I think I've learned to deal with. It's not easy though, and I can see how it's daunting to put yourself in a position where you might have to deal with it.

I think that eventually, you'll have to - whether intentionally or not.

 

[Jabrosky]

I think part of the issue is with how to handle criticism. The characters we create can be a part of ourselves or come from who we are. If we then receive criticism about how we portray those characters it puts into question our image of who we are as people.

I think this is something that lies close to why men often are nervous about how to portray women.
I like to consider myself a nice guy and I like to think I create meaningful female characters that have their own roles to play. If I write a female character that I take some pride in, that I like, and that I consider meaningful and someone comes along and tears it down for being a stereotype or for objectifying women or some other reason. They're not just saying that I've failed at portraying my character; they're also saying I don't understand women and they're saying that my character is an example of something that I as a person is principally opposed to.
In short, they're saying I'm not the nice guy I think I am.

This is almost what I meant to convey when I talked about how we can take politically charged critiques, especially those dealing with the politics of oppression, more personally than critiques about prose or whatnot.

Going back to the theme of activists claiming to represent whole groups, I've seen polls reporting that while the vast majority of women (and a nearly equal majority of men) endorsed gender equality, only a minority (e.g. 23% of women, and 16% of men) labeled themselves as feminists. This might seem contradictory since dictionaries still define "feminism" as fundamentally about gender equality, but that's partly because the word has now become associated with a specific left-wing sociocultural movement that unfortunately has been appropriated by self-righteous kids on places like tumblr. Of course, I am referring to the popular association here; I'm sure even those people who accept the feminist label for themselves have a variety of viewpoints that don't always fall in line with the tumblrite party line.

Just because a few trolls on tumblr declare something problematic doesn't always mean they represent the feminist consensus, let alone the consensus of any woman who supported gender equality.

 

[Chessie]

Art is going to be criticized, no matter what. If you aren't willing to put yourself out there...I mean really put yourself out there, then what's the point? An artist's best work is often that piece where they took risks.

Absolutely. People are going to have opinions of our work no matter what. That's awesome. At least its better to have someone engaged in the writing and triggered to a response than none at all. Don't they say that a writer's worst enemy is obscurity?