What exactly do publishers look for?

[Androxine Vortex]

I'm sure they look for interesting plots and great characters that readers will cherish but what else? I'm concerned about my actual skill with how I construct my sentences. It seems that no matter how many times I rewrite something, when I show it to someone else there is still a lot of things they believe need to change. Last night I had two scribes look at my new opening and they both gave fantastic advice but I couldn't help but feel a little concerned.


I (as I'm sure all of you do as well) believe I have fantastic ideas but that alone won't cut it. it raises another question of how much work falls on the shoulders of the editor? I know there isn't such a thing as perfect in writing but how close to perfect does your writing have to be when submitting? I'm concerned that my work will be solely rejected because many that publisher doesn't think my writing or sentence structure is good enough.

Now I'm not going to say I think I have no skill whatsoever and I can't even form a proper service

 

[Androxine Vortex]

Sorry it cut out and it should say sentence not service (I hate my phone!!!)

But yeah I'm not sure "how good" your writing needs to be to be considered for publishing. I'm wondering how much editors do to help out as well. Thanks

 

[Philip Overby]

I would say an editor expects your work to be polished. Meaning if you have trouble with certain writing skills, it would be good to study the craft more. Or even just study writing in general. "The Elements of Style" is considered must-read material for anyone who wants to construct better sentences and such. There are loads of books that can help with technical writing ability.

Most people would suggest hiring a professional editor to clean up your writing before sending it out anywhere. That way you'll know your story is as perfect as it's going to get from a technical standpoint.

What are publishers looking for? Well, it's hard to say. Different kinds of editors have different tastes, so you never know when something you write could be a perfect fit for one publisher and completely wrong for another. Find books by authors you like. Who is their publisher? Focus on trying to make your writing is good as possible and then start sending stuff to those publishers. If they reject you, start studying more, writing more. Improving your writing is an endless process and something we all struggle with. The more you write, study, and find books you admire, the better you'll be prepared when the time comes to send something to a publisher.

 

[TWErvin2]

Storytelling is vitally important. A grammatically perfect manuscript that contains a so-so or poor quality story--or one ineptly told, won't go anywhere.

However, there are many, many, many stories out there that are good (solid, imaginative ideas) and a story that is poorly written (sentence structure, punctuation, etc.) and will need a lot of work will be much more likely to be passed on. Why? Editors do much more than edit stories. They have a lot of responsibilities and a limited amount of time. Two solid stories submitted, one that will need a small amount of editing and one that will need a lot of editing--which one will be picked, and the author offered a contract?

There are more good works out there than any publisher could ever put in their publication schedule. They have to pass on novels they'd love to publish, but just can't.

If you know, Androxine Vortex, that your sentence structure needs work, then take the time to study and improve. Read other published works, but not for pleasure. Study how those authors accomplished what you're struggling with. Learn how they did it and apply it to your own writing style and story. It takes time, but I believe it's the best way to improve.

True, no manuscript is going to be perfect. In truth, no published novel is going to be perfect. But you want to submit/present the highest quality work you can (both in storytelling and in the writing of the story). In general, you only get one shot with each publisher/editor for each novel/story. Make the best of that opportunity.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

I have been trying to learn and study believe me. I've been reading different books and every sentence I read I try to analyze it. Why did they do that? Why not this? What purpose did that piece serve? I'm trying very hard to improve my skills. I know that you can hire editors to tidy up a manuscript but I have a constant fear that my works will be rejected simply because people think I could have used more descriptive words or maybe I told instead of showing too much. I just worry about this a lot and it doesn't help that I am a person who tends to over worry things

 

[BWFoster78]

I have been trying to learn and study believe me. I've been reading different books and every sentence I read I try to analyze it. Why did they do that? Why not this? What purpose did that piece serve? I'm trying very hard to improve my skills. I know that you can hire editors to tidy up a manuscript but I have a constant fear that my works will be rejected simply because people think I could have used more descriptive words or maybe I told instead of showing too much. I just worry about this a lot and it doesn't help that I am a person who tends to over worry things

On one level, we all have these kind of doubts. The only help to dispel them is to produce good enough work that you're getting positive feedback.

Try writing a story and submit to Myths Inscribed.

Try participating in the challenges like Ankari's Iron Pen.

If you're accepted to be published or win challenges on a regular basis, you're probably just about there. If not, you probably have a bit more work to do.

There is no substitute for hard work.

Read books about writing.
Write.
Submit your work for critique.
Learn from the feedback.
Repeat.

 

[Penpilot]

Analysis of your sentence structure can be a double edge sword. Yes, you want active sentences and all that jazz, but if it gets out of hand you can twist yourself into knots. Getting feedback is good, but be careful. I find that when people tell you how you should write a sentence, what they're really saying is this is how I would write it, which can be a problem. If I prod you into writing a sentence a specific way, then that sentence is no longer in your voice, it's in my voice, and it's not really you telling it. It's me telling your how to tell it.

For now, my suggestion would be to worry less about sentence structure and more on story. That will probably get you further. This isn't me telling you not to think about your words and how they're put together but rather don't think about it to the point of freaking yourself out. Think on it, make a choice, and live with it. Generally speaking it won't matter as much as you think.

Take a look at the following three sentences.

He ran down the street.

He was running down the street.

He dashed down Broadway, feet pounding the gray pavement.

Which is the better one? The answer is it depends. It depends on your voice, what your trying to achieve, and what the purpose of the sentence is within the story, but in general, all three can fit the bill. Within a story, you could probably swap out one for another without it killing the story.

My rule of thumb is this. If a sentence/paragraph is giving me fits, I put the brakes on and just say everything as plainly as possible. Let the words come out naturally regardless of passivity or all that sort of jazz. We all want to spin prose and make people weep and say wow, but what I've found is the surest way to write something cringe-worthy is to write something that's not true to your voice. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a while to find ones voice. I still don't think I've found mine yet.

One last thing. If you look at all the books you've studied and compared the way those authors structure their sentences vs. all the advice that flies about, I'll bet every one of those authors flies in the face of that type of advice in one way or another.

So IMHO, take all the good advice you've been given, take to heart, but write it the way it feels natural to you. You'll probably make mistakes, but I think it's better to make mistakes doing it your way than doing it another person's way because you'll probably learn more from it.

 

[BWFoster78]

what they're really saying is this is how I would write it, which can be a problem.

True to an extent.

When a beta reader rewrites a sentence for you (or points out anything else), your primary takeaway should be, "That sentence (or whatever) did not work."

So IMHO, take all the good advice you've been given, take to heart, but write it the way it feels natural to you. You'll probably make mistakes, but I think it's better to make mistakes doing it your way than doing it another person's way because you'll probably learn more from it.

You have to understand where you are on the learning curve as well. The more time and effort you put into something, the more benefit you get out of it. However, the rate of learning does not stay constant. When you start out, you get a lot of benefit from a little time. Later, for the same amount of input, you get a lot less benefit.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

Penpilot, you make an excellent point with your three parts example. Not every single sentence has to be written with five adjectives and be extravagant. Maybe a simple sentence would be fine, maybe work best. I guess I was worrying that every single sentence I had would have to be "perfect" and you're right it was stressing me out a lot. I even looked at some of my favorite novels and I found some sentences and thought the author could have expanded them further. Maybe written them a different way but they still got published regardless. I understand there isn't a perfect novel or a perfect story but I think I was doubting myself too much into thinking if my word choices weren't the best possible choice then I would have no hope of being published

 

[Jamber]

I love what Penpilot said, but at a cruder level want to add the following:

Publishers want what they can sell, which (in a world of shrinking sales) increasingly means whatever was successful in the past. The complication of course is that they don't want it exactly the same because sameness is boring.
You can sway them to something completely new with really good writing and self-marketing, but I reckon the following checklist applies to all submissions:

1. A riveting pitch (or outline). The idea has to stand out.
2. A catchy opening with a hook (showing that you know how to write and use suspense).
3. Good writing: vivid characterisation, original turns of phrase, clever imagery, taut description, tight plotting (fulfilling the promises you made in the pitch and the opening).
4. A strong ending (leaving a powerful impression and showing you know how to close).

You don't have to hit all the nails on the heads, but you have to hit most, and the order is important (a poor pitch and vague opening will stop you even getting read). By contrast, a great idea may get you read even if your writing doesn't shine. As for writing quality, we've all read books with great characterisation but poor plotting or great turns of phrase and terrific plotting but only passable characterisation. And we've all read works with weak endings, so it's all a question of how bright the outstanding elements shine. You have to have something that really stands out to make up for flat writing (if that makes sense).

Just my thoughts on it, anyway,

Jennifer

 

[The Unseemly]

I should add that publishers also look for the sellability (if that's even a real word... if not, I just invented it). Your story might be good, your grammar and sentences sound, the story good... but just not sellable. The publisher might say "Ho, ho, that's some interesting points he's made there, but is this really what people want to see?". Is writing a fantasy novel that relates to three hundred years ago sellable? Or, is this notion about the whole psychological thing what people want to see, read, and buy?

A publisher takes a risk accepting your work. I'm don't know anything about how the contracts work, however it's obvious enough that they're paying you for this, in one form or another. So they'll want something they can make a profit on.

Food for thought, anyway.

 

[TheokinsJ]

Publishers are looking for something that will sell, there's the harsh truth of the matter. The idea and plot is very important, however a certain amount of skill is also involved. In terms of skill, I would not say being a great writer is the most vital element. It's kind of like a one or the other situation, you need to have good ideas if you aren't as strong with writing, and vice versa if you are brilliant at writing, but have not-so-good ideas. At the end of the day, a certain amount of skill is involved, but the ideas, the plot and the characters are, in my opinion, far more important. Sometimes people forget what writing is, writing is getting your story across, telling your tale to other people. Good writing helps to get the story across clearer and more easily to the reader, but it will only take you so far. It's the ideas that really matter, they are what will sell the book, not fancy words and sentences.

 

[wordwalker]

For publishers, I don't think there are any best skills for a writer-- it varies too much with different publishers, for different stories, and who had a shouting match with his dog last night.

It's better to improve all your skills, though there's something to be said for prioritizing what skills you think are your greatest strength, or for giving some attention to what seems like your weak link. (But don't obssess over the latter; there's a fable of a school that kept trying to teach a rabbit to swim and never let him practice running.)

But you want to look at different views on sentence structure, I've got a couple of blog posts that dig into that. My big Toolbox piece explores a lot, and my newest Order of a Sentence includes a guest post and deals with one part of sentence-building.

 

[Androxine Vortex]

Yes I know that publishers aren't going to look at a manuscript and say, "this probably wont sell. Let's make a contract." My problem was that I was too worried about how well my word choices were. Every time I would allow someone to read my work, they would make many suggestions about it. Now, most of them were very helpful but I had a bad habit of thinking I HAD to change it to meet their suggested specifications. That my way was wrong. Maybe my way wasn't the best but I am starting to really understand now that there isn't a perfect one right way. Some people will like something and others don't; you see it here on the forum all the time so it's not going to be any different between me and a reader. I just need to try and find my style and continually improve on my writing skills.

And I agree with what BWFoster said, I'm not trying to substitute hard work or look for an easy way out. I know writing a novel is an uphill battle, I was just having a much harder time with it than I was ready for. But now I do feel a lot more confident in myself and I know I can always submit some work here and have other members take a look at it. But this time I'm not going to stress out about making every single sentence overly done with extravagant descriptions and poetic what-have-you. But I do want every sentence to count. So wish me luck everyone and thank you for your help!

 

[BWFoster78]

That my way was wrong. Maybe my way wasn't the best but I am starting to really understand now that there isn't a perfect one right way.

It seems like most editors agree that there is a "one right way" on most topics - except when it's better not to follow it.

Confused yet?

The more experience you have writing, the more you're able to understand when to break from that path, when breaking those "rules" will gain you more than it will cost you.

You absolutely should not do anything just because a beta reader said to. A beta reader's comment should be the starting point of you gaining understanding of the underlying issue.

If the beta reader says, "I'd have written this sentence like this, " you should get from that, "The beta reader is saying that my sentence DID NOT WORK." Examine the sentence you wrote. Determine why it didn't work. Fix it. Move on.

 

[Steerpike]

If the beta reader says, "I'd have written this sentence like this, " you should get from that, "The beta reader is saying that my sentence DID NOT WORK." Examine the sentence you wrote. Determine why it didn't work. Fix it. Move on.

I think that's right, but I'd add the additional step of determining whether the beta reader is, in fact, correct. No matter how good a reader you have, they're not always going to be correct and many things will come down to purely personal preference. An important skill for a writer to have is to be able to look at feedback and separate those comments that are on target from the ones that are not.

 

[BWFoster78]

I think that's right, but I'd add the additional step of determining whether the beta reader is, in fact, correct. No matter how good a reader you have, they're not always going to be correct and many things will come down to purely personal preference. An important skill for a writer to have is to be able to look at feedback and separate those comments that are on target from the ones that are not.

I agree. Best to modify to:

1. Either a "trusted" beta reader OR
2. Multiple beta readers commenting on the same issue

I notice that I often get multiple beta readers commenting in the same area of the text. Often the comments won't be the same or even about the same paragraph, but it tells me something is off with that scene in that area. Instead of blindly making "corrections" based each comment, I try to figure out what the underlying problem is.

 

[Steerpike]

Yeah, I think that's a good point, Brian. When you have multiple readers hitting on the same passage, something isn't quite working, even though the readers may not be able to articulate exactly what it is. Just knowing that something isn't work for some reason is a valuable starting point.

 

[wordwalker]

My rule for feedback is always: think of each answer as part of a poll.

It doesn't mean it's right or wrong, it means some percentage of other readers out there will also have the same insight, blind spot, personal preference, or whatever it may be. Which means you decide, how important is their problem or suggestion (many people agree? it's just one but it completely ruins the story for him?), and how much acting on that might hurt the rest of what you want to do.

 

[BWFoster78]

There's a lot of nuance involved in dealing with beta readers.

To begin with: what type of beta reader is it:

1. Someone you perceive to have more skill at writing than you? If so, you may take his suggestions more seriously than most
2. Another writer? You may want to disregard some of the stylistic comments as being personal preferences.
3. An average reader? You probably are looking mainly for areas where he thought the writing slow or confusing.

Even after you've evaluated the comment based on the commenter, that's only the jumping-off point of the process. A beta reader isn't an editor; he isn't trained to spot structural and technical problems and suggest solutions. Suggestions can be helpful, but, ultimately, it's up to you to figure out what the underlying problem is and how to fix it.