What if you're not going for wonder and mystery?

[Feo Takahari]

The latest thread about magic systems got me thinking. It seems like a lot of folks here want to do wonder, terror, mystery, grandeur . . . basically, one thing or another that feels foreign and unfamiliar in a forceful, powerful way. That's definitely something the fantasy genre is uniquely suited for. (A hundred years ago, you could write about the mysteries of foreign lands, but now those lands have Internet access and will bombard you with one-stars on Amazon for "othering" them.) Anyway, what I'm wondering is, how does the picture change if you're not doing that? What rules change, and what advice goes differently? Conversely, what stays the same?

Speaking personally, I use fantasy to pare down and emphasize a single aspect of reality. If I were to write about chronic illness, for instance, I'd have to get its personal implications and financial effects and how people think of you differently and yada yada yada. So I write someone slowly turning into a slug, and I try to get across that chronic illness is undignified. I'm trying to explain things and make them easier to understand, and I feel like that goes in the opposite direction from all this stuff that creates mysteries for the readers to wonder about.

(Maybe this kind of thing is site-specific. On my last site, my low-powered plucky survivor types felt horribly out of place amongst all the "badasses" other folks were writing. This site doesn't lack for characters who can fight, but most of the folks who write one-dimensional "badasses" get bored and leave before they hit fifty posts.)

Anyway, I guess I don't have a more specific question than that. I just thought it might be worth talking about. (And feel free to interject if your writing differs in another way. We've only got one horror writer, right?)

 

[CupofJoe]

I try to write relationships.
I don't think I'm very good at it, but I like trying to work out and show how 2 [or more] people work together [or don't] to get a common goal.
The reason I write in fantasy is mainly laziness [not the right word] on my part... If I want to write about children growing up without adults to help them in a city like Istanbul [other cities are available], I don't want to have to spend a lot of time visiting and researching the street life of children in Istanbul, I want to get to the writing and have that set in a place that feels like Istanbul should do to me [and almost certainly never was or will be]...
and you know...
Trolls and Dragons...
Those are just cool...

 

[Amanita]

I'm not quite sure what your question is. Both things you've mentioned can work but will lead to very different kinds of stories but that doesn't make one approach better per se.
You're idea with someone turning into a slug reminded me of a story by Franz Kafka where a young man turns into a giant beatle and later gets killed as a result of the familys hateful reaction after much rejection from it. I've read this story at school and I think it's not quite decided by scholars what Kafka actually used this as a metaphor for but it's still a brilliant story. When our teacher described what it was about, I felt grossed out and not very keen on reading it but when I actually did, I was impressed by the author's story-telling.
I'm not quite sure if this kind of thing is considered fantasy though. The approach your describing is probably more likely to result in a story becoming mandatory reading at school if you succeed while the magical grandeur story will rather turn into a Hollywood production. Opinions on what's more worthwhile tend to differ.

 

[Nimue]

I think there is certainly room for mundanity and simple explanations in fantasy--that kind of tone crops up more in urban fantasy and low fantasy (as opposed to high or epic fantasy). However, I do think that magic of some stripe is at the heart of fantasy, and magic requires some mystery. If everything is perfectly explained and rational, that (I feel) is the territory of sci-fi or speculative fiction. Could you give more examples of the kind of fantasy you write?

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I always like to take, or at least start with, a somewhat satirical approach. Not that I'm doing this now, but a part of me would love to see a world where magic is so commonplace (as it is in your typical RPG) that, for example, warriors tend to expect the party healer to fix a gut wound in seconds.

You may even be able to do a more serious piece in such a world, if you consider the amount of pressure it would put on a healer: a few seconds is the difference between "unscathed" and death, nonmagic warriors have no idea why healers get "too tired" to cast spells and they tend not to excuse fatigue, captains may not allow healers to save men on the front line because healers are "too important" while the healer may feel s/he's failing as a healer by following the captain's order, etc.

If you create a believable and interesting world, I think you can give the reader that sense of wonder even if the characters don't find magic to be mysterious.

 

[skip.knox]

I agree with Nimue. If your interests run in that direction, Feo, maybe try a different genre. What you describe seems to me to fit better into science fiction, which can explore all those issues without need for the fantastic. If it ain't fantastic, it ain't fantasy.

Embrace the darkness!

 

[Mythopoet]

Anyway, what I'm wondering is, how does the picture change if you're not doing that? What rules change, and what advice goes differently? Conversely, what stays the same?

There are no rules for Fantasy. That's kinda the whole point. You can write anything because anything is possible and there are no limitations.

The audience for fantasy stories is wide and varied. I would feel comfortable claiming, without any real proof, that it's the most diverse genre audience there is. Because the audience is so diverse there are all sorts of readers who like all sorts of things craving more of the kinds of stories they like. The only challenge for the writer is finding that particular part of the fantasy readership that is likely to enjoy your stories and helping them to discover your work.

 

[Trick]

I always like to take, or at least start with, a somewhat satirical approach. Not that I'm doing this now, but a part of me would love to see a world where magic is so commonplace (as it is in your typical RPG) that, for example, warriors tend to expect the party healer to fix a gut wound in seconds.

You may even be able to do a more serious piece in such a world, if you consider the amount of pressure it would put on a healer: a few seconds is the difference between "unscathed" and death, nonmagic warriors have no idea why healers get "too tired" to cast spells and they tend not to excuse fatigue, captains may not allow healers to save men on the front line because healers are "too important" while the healer may feel s/he's failing as a healer by following the captain's order, etc.

If you create a believable and interesting world, I think you can give the reader that sense of wonder even if the characters don't find magic to be mysterious.

I could see something like this in an Abercrombie book and I honestly would love to read this level of reality in a fantasy setting.

 

[Tom]

My settings lean toward the realistic, even gritty. I try not to leave anything out, even the more unpleasant elements. I think even very realistic fantasy can include wonder and mystery--magic is a way to do that. If the rest of the fantasy world is mundane, the magic is going to stand out even more. I like doing that.

So my opinion is, fantasy can be realistic and fantastical at the same time.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I could see something like this in an Abercrombie book and I honestly would love to read this level of reality in a fantasy setting.

The funny part is that when I started typing, I was thinking how cheesy it might be—or seem to be—to have a novel's world like an RPG's world. In an RPG, you figure you'll be fine as long as the healer is safe, and even take hits for the team if you're the high-HP barbarian. In a real battle, one good hit is death. You try not to get hit. Ever.

Then as soon as the text was on-screen, I realized this world (and its "magic system") could prove very interesting when considering how the healer would be taken for granted.

 

[spectre]

I would say that of course, when you want to garner a certain feeling to your writing the rules are going to change for that. As you said, when you read about these powerful and grandiose settings some writers are creating, or their characters, to you it is unfamiliar. Probably the most important thing as a writer is to write something that is identifiable and something that if your readers don't relate to it in an intimate sense, they are able to become excited by it, or saddened yda yda.

How does it change? Well some things don't change first of all. Although you're aiming for a different feel, ultimately writing about violence is just that, there has to be violence, there has to struggle and peril. Writing about chronic illness requires some aspect of being sickened with disease. There are always options in how you portray the fighting or the illness of course, the fight could be heroic, it could devious, it could be epic, or it could hinge on one thing or many. You used the word undignified to describe chronic illness for instance, but that is only one aspect of being sick. There is hope, there is depression, there is strength, dignity get's called to question in 8 different ways, but if you create something completely abstract the fight itself might seem more a process, the sickness could specifically be a delusion.

Those are subtle changes, but the major changes that occur when you want to effect a certain feel to your writing as a writer are going to be literary techniques that come after you've envisioned your scene. Simple words on paper, everything you imagine has to be expressed and so you probably want to use different literary techniques in order to create a feel about your writing. Shakespeare is a case in point, or the Bible, or a legal document, or a test. The structure of your writing is a paradigm with which you have to fashion an outline, a story, a song, or a poem, or whatever.

Humanistically, the major changes will be seen in emotional responses. The creative process is inspired by it all in all.

As for advice about techniques to use when aiming for a certain appeal to your audience, one factor to consider is trend. We all know that trends are ever present in the media, and books are a form of media. You could argue that the ability to write in a trendy way is itself a unique writing skill and as we see with arts through history it's true. Copella (?) films or Stone films or Spielberg films are (box office wise) not as powerful in their trends as Scott has been, or some of the newer movies.

Technique comes from research and experience as well, so don't hold back on your thoughts and try to create a wholly fictitious character if it feels like something is missing. Research your subject matter, create where you can be inventive, and remain true to your genre. You can sum up a genre in a few words horror:terrifying, thriller:exciting, fantasy:epic, action:adrenaline filled, drama:intense and so on. But those are generic (genre) descriptions. This is where you fall on emotional response, research, and experience.

I know this isn't the definitive technique guide, but I don't think I'm really experienced enough to offer that, but to me this is what the creative process is born from and then evolves as the result of it's process.

 

[Svrtnsse]

My story is on the surface fairly lighthearted and fluffy, but underneath I'm dealing with things that are important to me (in my own way).
It's set in a fantasy setting, and I'm using that to try and put the reader into a different world and give a sense of escapism, because, well, I like to do that too.

However, there are no mighty heroes, there's no epic threat and things are, on the whole, rather average. It's my hope that this will enhance the escapist element of the story, rather than diminish it.

 

[Feo Takahari]

I think there is certainly room for mundanity and simple explanations in fantasy--that kind of tone crops up more in urban fantasy and low fantasy (as opposed to high or epic fantasy). However, I do think that magic of some stripe is at the heart of fantasy, and magic requires some mystery. If everything is perfectly explained and rational, that (I feel) is the territory of sci-fi or speculative fiction. Could you give more examples of the kind of fantasy you write?

I guess a good example of what I'm talking about is the anime Paranoia Agent. What it wants to say is "loss is a natural part of life, and refusing to accept loss will only hurt you." What it shows is "refusing to accept loss will summon an evil spirit who'll hit you in the head with a baseball bat." I guess you could say it's got mystery, since it never really explains what the spirit is, but ultimately, it's just a vehicle for exploring loss. (As one reviewer put it, "In a less fantastical way, this monster does attack people.")

 

[Mythopoet]

I guess a good example of what I'm talking about is the anime Paranoia Agent. What it wants to say is "loss is a natural part of life, and refusing to accept loss will only hurt you." What it shows is "refusing to accept loss will summon an evil spirit who'll hit you in the head with a baseball bat." I guess you could say it's got mystery, since it never really explains what the spirit is, but ultimately, it's just a vehicle for exploring loss. (As one reviewer put it, "In a less fantastical way, this monster does attack people.")

This is essentially what all fantasy does. It doesn't matter if you're writing a high magic or low magic setting, a character driven or setting driven or plot driven story, an epic fantasy or an urban fantasy or any other sub-genre. It doesn't matter if your conflict is man vs. dragon or man vs. slug syndrome. It's like that Three Amigos quote:

"In a way, each of us has an El Guapo to face. For some, shyness might be their El Guapo. For others, a lack of education might be their El Guapo. For us, El Guapo is a big, dangerous man who wants to kill us. But as sure as my name is Lucky Day, the people of Santa Poco can conquer their own personal El Guapo, who also happens to be *the actual* El Guapo!"

This is what story is all about. Allowing us to have experiences that we can learn from and grow through without the real life risks and seen through a filter that hopefully strips us of the preconceived notions and individual personality flaws that might make it impossible for us to learn and grow through experiences in real life.

 

[SeverinR]

You can write an epic Fantasy novel or a simple story.
Anything that can be written in modern times ca be written in Fantasy.
Write about small time triumphs or people over coming adversity.

If you can make it interesting you can write about it.

 

[SeverinR]

The funny part is that when I started typing, I was thinking how cheesy it might be—or seem to be—to have a novel's world like an RPG's world. In an RPG, you figure you'll be fine as long as the healer is safe, and even take hits for the team if you're the high-HP barbarian. In a real battle, one good hit is death. You try not to get hit. Ever.
.

Actually, many people died from a scratch or stepping on a rusty nail or spike. Disease killed as much or even more then a sword.
Two reasons to keep the army moving was to prevent the spread of disease(improper camp and waste disposal.) and over killing of the food supply (farming and hunting).