My first destination whenever I log onto Mythic Scribes is the Showcase Forum. I don't see a lot of people commenting in that forum. So the question has to be asked: Why don't you visit the Showcase Forum?
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Why Don't You Showcase?
- Thread starter Ankari
- Start date
I visit it sometimes, but I guess each person has certain things that interest them about Mythic Scribes. I probably check out the Writing Questions and Challenges the most. Those are sort of my things that I like. Others almost always frequent the Showcase and World-Building. I think everyone has their favorites.
Also, I think the Showcase requires a bit of give and take. Those who comment on posts tend to get more comments on their own stuff. For beefing up Showcase interaction, I would suggest a "critique for critique" method. If you offer a short critique of one person's piece, then they give you the same. I think that method works the best for me anyway.
Also, I think the Showcase requires a bit of give and take. Those who comment on posts tend to get more comments on their own stuff. For beefing up Showcase interaction, I would suggest a "critique for critique" method. If you offer a short critique of one person's piece, then they give you the same. I think that method works the best for me anyway.
It's hard to tell what sort of feedback people are looking for, and though I do occasionally comment, I've found critique partners are much more truthful. Also, it's hard to get the feel for someone's work from a chapter or excerpt. I'd prefer to read a few chapters.
I have shared a complete little story inside the Showcase- Please search for: The Timelines of Nornium: The Kitty, the Gypsy and the Attic! XD!!
ArielFingolfin
Troubadour
I have such issues reading chapters on my computer. I really wish I could because I love reading works in progress and tossing my in two cents if I feel it will help or encourage, but my mind won't focus most of the time. I agree with Phil, if you want comments on your stuff you should comment on others', so I've stopped posting in there for a while (that and because I really just needed to get some feedback on the first couple chapters before I got some momentum). So I haven't even poked my head in there in a while. If someone asks me specifically for feedback I probably would, but I'm not going to browse through stuff that looks cool to read, but I just can't nail myself down to do it.
I'm not opposed to using the showcase more, but in practice I've found it most helpful to find a handful of good critique partners to work with. Critiques on web forums tend to go in a few directions: 1) a general statement that something is great (not helpful); 2) a line-by-line rewrite, which is insulting and not helpful; and 3) someone telling you how THEY would have written it (also insulting, and also not helpful).
By the time I give something over for critique, I generally have the basics of the story worked out, so suggestions along the lines of "why don't you change your plot X" are unwanted and unneeded. Likewise, I have usually thought about my word choice by then, so I'm not interested in how someone else would write the same story. The best critiques take a high-level view, they answer questions about what worked and what didn't work and why - was the pacing good, were you engaged, what about the characters - were they believable and consistent (and if not consistent why there a convincing reason why not). In any event, I could go on with other examples as to what is helpful but you get the idea. I think I pretty much stopped posting work for critique on web sites after about the fifth time I had someone try to rewrite my story line for line.
But I'll try to use it more and see how it goes. Maybe I'm bringing in prejudices from other sites. I'll try to post something
By the time I give something over for critique, I generally have the basics of the story worked out, so suggestions along the lines of "why don't you change your plot X" are unwanted and unneeded. Likewise, I have usually thought about my word choice by then, so I'm not interested in how someone else would write the same story. The best critiques take a high-level view, they answer questions about what worked and what didn't work and why - was the pacing good, were you engaged, what about the characters - were they believable and consistent (and if not consistent why there a convincing reason why not). In any event, I could go on with other examples as to what is helpful but you get the idea. I think I pretty much stopped posting work for critique on web sites after about the fifth time I had someone try to rewrite my story line for line.
But I'll try to use it more and see how it goes. Maybe I'm bringing in prejudices from other sites. I'll try to post something
Aidan of the tavern
Auror
I don't post my work in the showcase because I never have anything ready for posting. I don't really drift into the showcase that much partly because I don't consider my critique to be all that reliable, but if needed I would be happy to.
- Thread starter
- #8
I think that writers need as broad a feedback as possible to see if their writing is on the right track. Some people are excellent at picking apart plot holes, others are great at character development and others are great at technical writing. Also, personal opinions matter a great deal. The writer needs to know how it would be received by the audience at large. So every opinion matters.
Also, for those of you who do post your works in the showcase thread, be sure to take all the criticism you receive with a level head. The critiques are doing you a favor, take it as that. You don't have to agree with anything, but you do need to know that someone thought something was wrong which may mean that others will as well.
And I agree about the posting swap. If you post in the Showcase Forum you should reply to a certain amount of postings. I would say at least a 5 to 1 ratio.
Thanks for your thoughts.
I used the showcase a couple of times myself - to share things before I started self-publishing. Heck, the feedback I received to the Swordsman of Carn Nebeth story (the first third of which I put up) was a big part of that decision.
As far as critiquing goes, I glance at the things up there now and again. I rarely comment, though. The stories for which I feel I can make substantial critiques have often had most of my points covered already in their comments. Or (at the risk of sounding like an ass) the writing is not of a sufficient quality to merit in-depth critiquing, and posting "You need to practice for a couple more years" doesn't help anybody.
Also, time.
As far as critiquing goes, I glance at the things up there now and again. I rarely comment, though. The stories for which I feel I can make substantial critiques have often had most of my points covered already in their comments. Or (at the risk of sounding like an ass) the writing is not of a sufficient quality to merit in-depth critiquing, and posting "You need to practice for a couple more years" doesn't help anybody.
Also, time.
Or (at the risk of sounding like an ass) the writing is not of a sufficient quality to merit in-depth critiquing, and posting "You need to practice for a couple more years" doesn't help anybody.
I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing that out in general, but you will occasionally see that people posting such work end up arguing with critiquers. No matter what site I'm on, I won't waste my time critiquing the work of anyone I've seen arguing with critiquers in other threads. If you don't agree with a critique, say thanks and move on. Arguing shows that critiques are wasted on that individual.
For me the reason why I have no stories in the showcase is simple: I do not write in English. Most of you could probably not make much of a German text.
The reason why I have not commented in the showcase is not so simple. I am not big in reading longer texts on screen. Maybe if there was an easy way to load the show excerpts on my ebook, but reading on LCD display and in a foreign language, sorry I hardly reach the end of even the best stories there.
Also maybe I am a bit to shy to comment on others works. I am not published yet, so my comment could be very misleading? (Yea, this argument seems stupid, but I can't help it somewhere in my head it is there.)
The reason why I have not commented in the showcase is not so simple. I am not big in reading longer texts on screen. Maybe if there was an easy way to load the show excerpts on my ebook, but reading on LCD display and in a foreign language, sorry I hardly reach the end of even the best stories there.
Also maybe I am a bit to shy to comment on others works. I am not published yet, so my comment could be very misleading? (Yea, this argument seems stupid, but I can't help it somewhere in my head it is there.)
I'll give you three reasons:
1) People don't want, don't need, the kind of feedback they're going to receive. If you want to improve the quality of a piece, you should really talk about story before structure, structure before detail, detail before language. The Showcase isn't really a good avenue for taking a story through those steps. But it's just not feasible to go through that process here. Stories are too short, it's too hard in the forums to highlight the changes you want to make (MS Word? Track Changes, anybody?), and you don't have any context for the story.
2) People fight the feedback. Why should I take the time to highlight your mistakes if you aren't going to fix them? So I highlight a sentence or two to try and talk about writing skills, but nobody wants to talk about skills, just to defend the sentence. And people don't understand, a lot of the time a story looks strong but isn't - the problem is in what's missing, not what's there. Where's the character introduction? Where's the MC's reaction to all of this? Where's the setting? When did he walk from end of the room to the other? "It's not necessary for this scene, I don't want to drag it out." Okay, maybe, if you've got it covered elsewhere, but honestly, I doubt it. And well, once you include all that, you realize the scene might have a new problem - it's too long and boring, right? Right, if your scene isn't strong enough to carry a few details, you either need to make it stronger, or else you need to "zoom out" and move on. Giving you straight up feedback on the language in your scene doesn't tell you anything about whether the scene should have a place in your novel - if that makes any sense.
3) It takes a lot of time. It does, it basically comes out of time I could use writing. Or reading the book on my desk. Or being useful in other ways.
I'm sorry, I think some of that may have gotten a little ranty.
1) People don't want, don't need, the kind of feedback they're going to receive. If you want to improve the quality of a piece, you should really talk about story before structure, structure before detail, detail before language. The Showcase isn't really a good avenue for taking a story through those steps. But it's just not feasible to go through that process here. Stories are too short, it's too hard in the forums to highlight the changes you want to make (MS Word? Track Changes, anybody?), and you don't have any context for the story.
2) People fight the feedback. Why should I take the time to highlight your mistakes if you aren't going to fix them? So I highlight a sentence or two to try and talk about writing skills, but nobody wants to talk about skills, just to defend the sentence. And people don't understand, a lot of the time a story looks strong but isn't - the problem is in what's missing, not what's there. Where's the character introduction? Where's the MC's reaction to all of this? Where's the setting? When did he walk from end of the room to the other? "It's not necessary for this scene, I don't want to drag it out." Okay, maybe, if you've got it covered elsewhere, but honestly, I doubt it. And well, once you include all that, you realize the scene might have a new problem - it's too long and boring, right? Right, if your scene isn't strong enough to carry a few details, you either need to make it stronger, or else you need to "zoom out" and move on. Giving you straight up feedback on the language in your scene doesn't tell you anything about whether the scene should have a place in your novel - if that makes any sense.
3) It takes a lot of time. It does, it basically comes out of time I could use writing. Or reading the book on my desk. Or being useful in other ways.
I'm sorry, I think some of that may have gotten a little ranty.
Yeah, Devor, your first two basically track with my reasons - the type of feedback a lot of people like to give is not useful; and people like to argue with the critiquer.
I figure it is up to the author to decide whether any advice given should be adopted for her story, so it doesn't bother me if the author doesn't incorporate my suggestions into the work. But don't sit there and argue with the critiquer; that's just stupid.
I figure it is up to the author to decide whether any advice given should be adopted for her story, so it doesn't bother me if the author doesn't incorporate my suggestions into the work. But don't sit there and argue with the critiquer; that's just stupid.
Butterfly
Auror
Perhaps it would help to have some critique guidelines posted as a sticky thread. Or even a subforum specifically giving advice on how to critique - something like this How To Write Critiques? (only recently discovered this site and haven't joined up though - they seem really tough). Basically, something to help those of us new to critiquing, or maybe don't have much experience of it.
That would be a start, but I think it could go well beyond that, if people were willing to set it up and participate.
I think that would be great if you can get everyone to agree on the guidelines. I like a lot of what is at that link. Some of it is bollocks, like not using the word "you," as though we can then pretend that your critique isn't feedback to a "you" (namely, the author).
Amanita
Maester
Me too. And I don't really think that translating parts of my work is very useful. I did it once at the beginning of my time here, but I don't think this really helps me much because my language skills are (hopefully) a good deal better in my origianl language.
Why do I not give many critics? Sometimes I do if I stumble over something interesting but I don't really think that I can say many useful things.
I don't tend to look at fantasy stories in an objective way but some concepts simply appeal to me while others do not. This doesn't mean they have to be bad, it's very likely that other people like them, but I still don't. Given that my views are so subjective and intuitive rather than objective, I don't think I can really help anyone. Besides that, I simply don't have the language skills necessary to give quality feedback on grammar, word use and things like that.
Feedback on grammar and word use is really secondary (or tertiary), however. The most important aspects of whether the story was successful to you don't have to include any of that
Aidan of the tavern
Auror
I don't think we should go about imposing too many rigid guidelines, we don't want to make the critiquers (especially me) too uncomfortable about what we're writing.
If guidelines are any good, they would succeed at making critiques easier to write, instead of harder and more tedious. But I don't think how-to-write-critiques would really fix the problems in the Showcase. They might be a step, and worth doing, but most of the issues would still be there.
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