World Plan of my very own

[BeigePalladin]

Hello, good people of the forum!

So, I know I'm a new member, yet to win my literary spurs, but I'm already here kicking up dust trying to come up with my own full-length epic, rather than nice safe short stories . though to be fair, I'm not exactly a new writer, see here, where I used the name HLY.

I've tried the idea before, but it flopped due to exams and a lack of focus, something I can avoid on both counts this time. The basic idea I have is based in a heavily Jury-rigged, Angels-and-Demons style version of the real world. This is very much in the development stage, and I plan to iron out the kinks before writing anything, so I'd like everyone's thoughts, opinions and suggestions on what I post below:

In this world, the generics of Christian Mythology is real, so heaven and hell, angels, demons and all that. That's not to say the world is any more Christian than the real world, nor my trying to force my own religious views through the writing (I'm agnostic), but simply because I like their mythology, if not the rest of the stuff in their book

so, History has run it's general course, with a few exceptions — which I'll cover some other time, but for the average human the world would run the same. The biggest change to the world is the semi-secret presence of the divine and diabolic amongst humans, something know to the world leaders, and a few people, a secret kept in the way that makes conspiracy theorists giggle with glee.

The demons are generally sitting at a form of mob-boss level in civilisation, though they can be found in most industries, and politics as well, but generally controlling the world from the shadows. The agents of the divine mentioned are staging a shadow-war against the demons, trying too root them out of civilisation and return them to whence they came. Obviously, humans get involved on both sides of the conflict, and most nations maintain at least some forces determined to hunt down demons, whilst others will ally and trade with them freely.

I am thinking of including a sort of magic in this world, which if I did would be a secret of the same level of the Demons. This magic would be of a far more restricted form than in most fantasy stories, maybe based around consecration and desecration, hexes and blessings rather than fireballs and lightning bolts.

so, onto the back story I've got so far.

The basic premise begins in the crusades. An order of templars, the Morning Star, are led to believe that in claiming the Holy City of Jerusalem, the Muslim's have proved themselves creatures of hell, and must be returned there. A fallen knight in the order, who sold his soul to the devil and planned to lead both forces of men to ruin, proposes a 'holy' ritual he has found in a sealed section of the Vatican's library. The order, after loosing much of their number at the walls of the city, agrees to perform this ritual out of desperation.

The ritual, once completed, summed forth a force that would be the end of the Arabic defenders on the walls — 666 of Satan's legions where summoned to the world, hungry for destruction. The Muslims where decimated, yet only 7 men of the order — and the traitor — survived.

Appalled at what they had done, the knights fell prostrate and prayed for the heavens — or their fellow men — to strike them down. A light descended from the heavens, and each of the men heard a voice commanding them to seek down and banish these demons they had unleashed, and any others of their kind in the world they find on this task. This task would carry to the first born of each generation, until all of the 666 where once more returned to hell*. However, because the sin was their own, so is the hunt, and the Knights could only call upon the aid of those worn to the order or those who offered their free support, and each demon must be slain by the hand f a knight, not an aid.

Each knight was resolute in accepting their fate, yet disparaging at the impossibility of the task; how could seven mortal men overcome demons without the power of the priests? This question was answered too, by the Archangels who serve under the Lord. Each Angel gifted a knight — and their bloodline — with an aspect of their power, enough so that, together, they could succeed. To the oathsmen and lesser servants of the Order, those who would still support their lords in light of this blasphemy was gifted the skills and tools to aid their quest.

Fast forward to the modern day, and only 7 of the original 666 remain, yet the order has been broken for centuries. Time has been harsh on the order, with the changes to the church, the death of their own — or worse, the falling, when Satan tempted one of the knights away from their task. Now, 5 of the 7 have come together, to finish the quest. Yet the 7 that remain, do so for a reason — they are the greatest of the fell ones released upon the world.

And now on to the actual plot, where the biggest worry sits.

To date I have planned to write 7 books in the series, one for each of the demons. However, I can't think of a way to do this without it becoming cheap.

I'm also trying to think of what exactly the powers of each of the knights are, based on a loose generalisation of each of the 7 Archangels, and my current Ideas.

Azrael — angel of death, the 'record-keeper' — some kind of ability to know what the demons can do, their past appearances in the world?
Remael — Angel of Mercy, the 'healer' — Medical knowledge, and understanding of the human body seems obvious, maybe divine healing abilities depending on result of question 3)
Uriel — Angel of Mercy, the 'Hunter' — Ability to sense demons? Something else so this knight doesn't suck...
Raphael — Angel of Judgement, The 'Judge' — Haven't a clue...
Michael — Angel of Vengance, The 'Knight' — better fighter, ish...
Gabriel — Angel of Mercy, the 'Guardian' — improved pain tolerance, toughness and the like?
Raguel — Angel of Vengance, The 'Executioner' — ability to banish demons, of some kind.

I also need to confirm the abilities and limitations of the demons. Also, need to determine 5 of the 7 but two of them I've confirmed, which are:

The Big Bad, Alralamach
Lillith, queen of the Succubus

so, I have a few questions to ask, if you good folk have the time to spare reading my badly-grammerized ramblings

1)Is the plot line too cheesy for people to read without them needing to close the book/document every few pages to recover?
2)What suggestions could people give me about the abilities of the Knights, and any suggestions for the other 5 demons from any Christian/what Christianity's based off, stuff that'd be pretty epic whilst still being able to exist in a world where the existence of demons isn't common-place knowledge
3)What's everyone's views on humans in this setting being able to use magic? I see Exorcism as more of a stab it until it dies kinda thing, whilst magic is something demons do, but I'm not to sure about this. So the question here is Humans: magical or muggle?
4)What henchmen would you say would fit the demons? I imagine them having lesser demons as lieutenants, and humans as foot troops, but what about things like hybrids, half-bloods and the like. How far beyond humans would you say they'd be to be feasible and able to mesh, and what physical changes? Also, any other henchman suggestions?
5)Any criticisms/glaring historical discrepancies I've missed could people suggest about the setting?

Everyone feel free to post their thoughts,

 

[Ravana]

- Thought 1: Get yourself a copy of Gustav Davidson's A Dictionary of Angels. It's the definitive reference work available in the field.
- Thought 2: The Vatican Library didn't exist until well after the Crusades ended.
- Thought 3: I've always hated stories where mere humans–no matter what support they have behind them–can take on and consistently defeat beings which by right ought to be far more powerful. If it were that easy, a couple of the angels could have popped by and mopped up the demons directly in an afternoon. So why didn't they?
- Thought 4: The clichés don't worry me as much as the stereotypes do. Starting with the "Muslims bad" one–even if it's only the characters' attitude you're portraying. (One interesting way to duck this would be to have at least one of the modern characters be Islamic. And not the traitor, either. More interesting still would be if few or any of the modern characters were Christian.) For that matter, I'm not too fond of the "demons bad" cliché, either… nor the "angels good" one. Clearly delineated good and evil is… well, boring, for me. (You asked.)
- Thought 5: Take it slow. Planning to write a seven-book epic is all well and good, but since most people can't even finish one book–and no publisher is going to give an unproven author a seven-book contract–it would probably be best not to get too ambitious too quickly. You might be better served to aim for a single lengthy work with seven large chapters; if nothing else, you can start with that, and if you find your story stretching, make it multiple books then. Trying to force the length out to seven books, if you don't have seven books' worth of material, will invariably result in an inferior product.

 

[BeigePalladin]

• Thought 1: Get yourself a copy of Gustav Davidson's A Dictionary of Angels. It's the definitive reference work available in the field.

will do

• Thought 2: The Vatican Library didn't exist until well after the Crusades ended.

fair enough see, this is the kind of history problem I was looing for

• Thought 3: I've always hated stories where mere humans—no matter what support they have behind them—can take on and consistently defeat beings which by right ought to be far more powerful. If it were that easy, a couple of the angels could have popped by and mopped up the demons directly in an afternoon. So why didn't they?

well, I guess I didn't exactly make it clear, but the knights no longer really fall under 'normal' human anymore - reading my origional notes though, I missed one factor: their physical abilities are boosted to the very limit of what would be physically possible. Considerer as well that it's taken 750 years for them to deal with most of them, and those haven't been the most 'powerful', nor has it been without blood or failure. I still plan for the knight to get slaughtered if they try a head-on charge, because they're human.

• Thought 4: The clichés don't worry me as much as the stereotypes do. Starting with the "Muslims bad" one—even if it's only the characters' attitude you're portraying. (One interesting way to duck this would be to have at least one of the modern characters be Islamic. And not the traitor, either. More interesting still would be if few or any of the modern characters were Christian.) For that matter, I'm not too fond of the "demons bad" cliché, either… nor the "angels good" one. Clearly delineated good and evil is… well, boring, for me. (You asked.)

heh, don't worry, I'm trying to aoid this one. The 'Muslim's are evil' view was a very common one during the crusades, preached by the priests these people will have looked to for almost all spiritual guidance. The view is not carried on into the modern day, and I already had a Muslim character planned for one of the main cast.

I'm also trying to avoid the Angel's good, demon's evil thing. Going off what you aksed before - why didn't two angels just pop in to sort it out: Angel's are jerks. Most Angel's are going to conscribe to the theory that since they're, by definition, Good that whatever they do is also Good, and everyone sould try to live up to their standard. Think good without any compasion. same sort of thing for Demons, since they're going to have their own personalities: some just want to be left alone in the world, some see it as a holiday, some might just be pure evil.

Heck, if I go with my plan for Aldralamech, it'd kinda blow the steriotypical demon a million miles away

• Thought 5: Take it slow. Planning to write a seven-book epic is all well and good, but since most people can't even finish one book—and no publisher is going to give an unproven author a seven-book contract—it would probably be best not to get too ambitious too quickly. You might be better served to aim for a single lengthy work with seven large chapters; if nothing else, you can start with that, and if you find your story stretching, make it multiple books then. Trying to force the length out to seven books, if you don't have seven books' worth of material, will invariably result in an inferior product.

Heh, maybe. thing is, my mind is broken, and I generally need a nigh-immpossible goal to work towards to actually motivate me - even if the finished product ends up a lot less than 7 books. I'm also writing more for my own enjoyment that to get published, but if I do, bonus.

thanks for the reply

 

[Chase Simba]

BeigePalladin,
To answer the questions as best I can,
1) I don't think so, but you might want to add in a few more demons to spice things up a bit.
2)Azrael is the angel of death, and should have some power in relation to that. For example, the ability to delay a person's death for a limited amount of time, or maybe just is own.
Remael should have some supernatural healing ability, but not too strong. However, this could create the situation of Azrael charging in, getting 'killed' while fighting, killing his remaining enemies and getting healed by Remael, which could work well for the idea of demon hunters.
More answers later.

 

[BeigePalladin]

BeigePalladin,
To answer the questions as best I can,
1) I don't think so, but you might want to add in a few more demons to spice things up a bit.

don't worry, there's more than just 7 in the world, just those 7 are really the ones my characters will be foccusing on .

2)Azrael is the angel of death, and should have some power in relation to that. For example, the ability to delay a person's death for a limited amount of time, or maybe just is own.
Remael should have some supernatural healing ability, but not too strong. However, this could create the situation of Azrael charging in, getting 'killed' while fighting, killing his remaining enemies and getting healed by Remael, which could work well for the idea of demon hunters.
More answers later.

Azreal an angel of death, yet he's also described as the archivist, though by fewer sources. I just feel it'd be boring, having one guy's power be death. So I chose to focus on the other aspect of him, an angel who keeps a record of the sinners of the world, ready to mete out punishment as needed. The power over death just seems... boring, I suppose...

There are also multiple angel's of death, but the only one I'd really say that death was all they had is Abbadon, the destroyer, and he's already in the supporting cast...

 

[BeigePalladin]

so, next part of this planning lark:

THE FOUR PLANES​

So, I normally detest stories with multiple planes of existence, but as this features angels and demons and the like, I felt it’d be necessary to think about it. So, since we have heaven and hell already, I feel they need some structure; I’m also planning to expand the purgatory area in importance, because I can.
So, as I have my 4 worlds, it’s time for their origin. I’m thinking a creator, who made them all out of chaos, separate from God (who just sits in Heaven, swanning about). The creator isn’t good or evil, it’s a being of order and balance, and made the first 3 planes out of the pure chaos around before it (this energy forming the magic explained below) — however, due to the nature of these worlds(again, see below), the balance the creator strove for was in jeopardy. Unable to directly remove something it had poured so much of its essence into, the creater instead created a fourth realm, linked, to monitor this balance, whilst the creator itself departed — to try it’s hand again, in a different way….
Each being is bound to one of the four planes, and its own power is regulated by that plane, as travel between the four was not supposed to be possible (and monitoring this, and making sure no realm becomes too powerful is the role of Purgatory). This means that, whilst not in their native plane, a being is far more potent than when at home (hence why angels and demons, created by the same source, are so much more potent than humanity) — however, this comes at a cost, both from the threat of discovery by the world, or direct intervention by Purgatory, and also because a creature can only remain in a non-native plane for a limited period of time.
Knowledge of the structure of the other planes is generally kept from most beings — and even then, only the sketchiest details are known.
I may develop the other planes at a later date, but for now all that’s needed to be known is their there

DEMONS ​

Demon is the name given to the residents of the plane of hell. When most people think of demons, they think of the intelligent, independent beings known best for offering deals and trying to corrupt the world, yet this is a misconception, as there are many other kinds of demons than these, ranging in intelligence and size just like the flora and fauna of earth.
Demons where created as an experiment of turning the raw chaos to order, and as such are much more inclined towards personal freedom — being beings of chaos. They are also tied to emotion much more than any other race, which gave rise to their association with the 7 deadly sins.
However, even from the start the creator viewed the demons as almost a failure, and they did not enjoy the fits bestowed by the creator on humans (who could choose order of chaos much more freely) or the Angels (beings of pure order). This led to their initial attempts to overthrow heaven — seeing earth as an in-between zone, and a possible ally
The situation for them only became grimmer with the creators departure — as much of purgatory was built from hell and earth, leaving heaven mainly untouched, and much of hell a wasteland. Furthermore, the lords of purgatory, being beings of balance bereft of the creators knowledge, yet sharing his mentality, saw hell as the place for those who sought entirely to destroy and disrupt, making the realm the gaol of the three realms, much to the chagrin of the inhabitants.
This has given rise to the current demon hordes, a large portion of the inhabitants who seek to overthrow Heaven, and blind the eyes of purgatory — those who seek forever to access the other planes, to spread chaos and destruction, to destroy the order and appoint themselves as the rulers.

MAIN DEMONIC SUBGROUPS​

Whilst every demon is tied into an emotion, they can be further classified as below. Not all demons fit into one group. The ‘hordes’ are forged from all three main groups
The cherubim
These are the original demons, and the first. They are beings of freedom and free-will, yet that are also the most bitter, and hate filled about the other planes. However, their natural disorder means that, despite their power, it is rare the cherubim move. Their leader is Satan, and their primary attributes are envy, anger, sloth and pride
The Lillithim
When humanity first emerged, amongst their number was one almost and Angel, one almost a Demon. This near-demon, Lilith, was seen as an abomination by her companions, both for her nature and appearance, whilst the near-Angel was revered. Lilith was not cast out of earth to hell, but sought the way herself — resolved to force her people to accept her, Lilith accepted help from many of the lesser demons who sat outside the cherubim and when purgatory was created, she saw her chance — not quite a demon, Lilith was capable of harnessing the energy syphoned from hell to create the new realm, to empower her followers, and herself. The Lillithim are the subtle infiltrators, preferring to operate from the shadows. They are also focused primarily on earth rather than heaven. The lillithim’s primary attributes are lust, gluttony, envy and greed
The Nilliphim
The Nilliphim are the fallen, Angels to whom their emotions came before their duty. Cast from heaven, for the first eon they endured their punishment in hell, as a way to try and redeem themselves to the creator, but when it departed, the Nilliphim felt cheated. Though they are still hated by the Cherubim, there is a grudging alliance, and both groups are fixated on heaven. Their leader is Lucifer, and their primary attributes are Pride, Envy, Gluttony and lust
The archdevils
The archdevils are a few of the demons charged with maintaining balance amongst their own, before the lords of purgatory are forced to intervene. It is a task much begrudged by those who hold the title, and subverted at all opportunities. The archdevils are far more potent than a regular demon, and their power remains the same regardless of plane. Their numbers include Satan, Lilith, Lucifer and Adramelech.

 

[BeigePalladin]

ANGELS​

Angels where made as created of almost pure order, their emotions reigned in and controlled. However, since the beginning, that small spark of emotion in the angels has been bred into a sense of superiority, and arrogance. They were by far the favoured race of the creator, and where graced by its presence eternally. The Angels where empowered beyond the other races, and as beings of order, they were given free reign of the other two realms, protected by the creators will.
However, this led to them seeing the balance, which the creator - a being of order itself - was careful to preserve as beneath them, and that order must be all that exists, with chaos eradicated. This is what led mostly to the creator’s departure, and the creation of purgatory to oversee the three realms.
Most of the Angels realised their mistake near instantly, and where repentant, yet their pleas for the creator’s return fell to the empty air. Some, however, could not see themselves as responsible for the creator’s departure, being made in his image and sharing his will, and instead blamed the other two realms. Their campaign to eradicate chaos did not falter, and though the number of agents has reduced, the zeal is far greater
In general, most angels feel themselves to be the example that most beings should work towards. Most of them are compassionate, though they still, by the nature they were created with, place maintaining order as a priority above life. Most Angels thoroughly despise demons, both for their near-orderless nature, or because they blame them for the creators departure. Alongside this, many Angels consider themselves to be above the Lords of Purgatory, or their actions free of scrutiny, because they were not much affected by the creation of purgatory, and because due to the nature of the lords, Heaven is the reward for those judged worthy by the lords.
Heaven is ruled by ‘God’, a being unkown. Theories persisting state that god is an angel chosen to rule, ranging to the 7th lord of purgatory, left to rule heaven to show the creators true chosen.

PURGATORY​

The lords of purgatory where the last thing the creator made before its departure, 3 male and 3 female, to keep the balance of the three realms. The lords are those who oversee the three worlds, and they alone control rebirth. The lords themselves, however, are beings of order, and thus their balance is slightly skewed.
As well as being overseers, the Lords, and their agents, are enforcers. The agents of purgatory are beings chosen at the time of rebirth to serve the order. These are allowed to keep their memories, and their nature, and serve to eliminate or capture those that truly threaten then balance.
Rebirth
It is the power over rebirth that makes the lords of purgatory so potent. Before the creators departure, death was no setback, and rebirth was instant and guaranteed, to the same plane, to live life again. However, the creator changed this when he created the lords. At each creatures death, they judge how it served the order, and its own nature and purpouse. From this, the lords determine if the being is yet worthy of re-entiring the realms, and in what state. The lords not only determine the time of rebirth, but the state — an angel may be reborn a demon, and so on.
This power over life is also their greatest threat, for as long as one lord remains, the others will return, and a creature seen to have disrupted the balance beyond tolerance will find not death, but endless oblivion, or an eternity reliving its worst nightmares

MAGIC + TECHNOLOGY:​

I’m mainly trying to avoid having a full, complex magic system with each and every limit defined, because this is to be a written work and not a game system, and the reader isn’t going to have those limits explained to them (and even if I did, they’ll be skipped over by 99.9% of people anyways), but here are the basic ‘rules’ of magic as governed by this world:
1) Magic is the act of harnessing the forces used to create the universe, to temporarily reshape the world to how the mage desires. However, the longevity of the change depends upon the power of the caster, and to alter what the creator has made is a tremendous strain. Most mages can sustain a spell for a few minutes, and even the most powerful of mages struggle to maintain a spell past a day, let alone a week
2) A ‘mage’ is someone whose body can accumulate and store magic, rather than relying on that in the surrounding. This is both a blessing, and a curse, as personal magic is much easier to access, and is not exhausted by other people casting — however, there are risks:
3) Each mage has different types of magical effects they are more or less proficient in, determined by their own personality, and the source of their power. A natural mage’s power will be almost entirely personality dependant, whilst a marked mage’s power may match their progenitor, or may be designed for a specific task (see later for marking)
4) Mages accumulate magic like filling a sealed container with water and no other way out. This is a natural process of recovering magic, and mages cannot choose not to restore their used power. If a mage accumulates more power than their limit, then the effects can range from magic poisoning, to a random, uncontrolled discharge, to a catastrophic eruption depending on the amount of magic and the power of the mage. Thus, most mages will use their magic quite often to avoid this effect
5) ‘Spells’ are not necessary to cast magic, which is an act of will, but the rituals help, even if it’s just to visualise the effect. Some mages can cast with nothing more than a thought yet be amongst the weakest, some of the strongest need the full range of incantations and gestures to cast anything.
6) All changes by magic are temporary, but the results of those changes are not. For example, if somebody created a fireball, the burning it does will be permanent, if someone heals a cut, then it will be unhealed when the magic ends. However, if the spell was rather, something that fed the cells the stuff needed to regenerate, and then activated them, then the healing would remain. Thus, many mages will learn how to perform a number of effects naturally, and use magic as an accelerant — though it is still possible to create that fireball with pure magic if need be.
7) Just like how mages store magic, certain materials can store magical energy, and modern technology can even create stored, weaponised spells deployed much like grenades, or small scale spells into bullets — though this is not very publicly know, and is a harshly-kept secret by most governments.
Acceptance of magic:
Magic is generally considered a mark of treachery amongst humans, seeing as how the most powerful comes from the other two planes unbound power. As such, non-governmental magic is a capital offence in most cultures, and even government magic is kept secret, and discovered mages are often disowned, all knowledge of their powers denied.

 

[Kaellpae]

This sounds like an interesting read. I'm in the middle of making my own world. Needless to say it's not going nearly as well as I was hoping.

 

[Draconian]

Im making my own world too but good job on your world. Im thinking you may want to add a being that is the polar opposite of the creator, who subtlely manipulates the realms to war with each to upset the balance.

 

[BeigePalladin]

@ draconian: maybe, but I really am against the whole 'ultimate enemy' style of thing, though I might, I'll think about it...

anyway, other updates, so most of the lore is done (other than history)

Angel-blood and Devil-marked
Angel-blood and Devil-marked is the term used to describe the major agents of the angels and demons, though they can be created by anyone with magical power.
Any mage can share a portion of their power with those nearby, reducing their own limit to enhance the chosen. This however, is also an option (and much more common) for Angels and Demons to create their own agents in the world, so they themselves can remain under the radar, and so they have lieutenants they can rely on.
Marking someone or something is one of the rare lasting-magics. It enhances the abilities of the marked being, though it is not always directly a magical increase. This improvement can be physical or intellectual, or a boost to magical power or limit; all cost the marker a portion of their own magic.
A mark cannot be taken back once given, so it is only given after careful consideration and thought. In addition, marking has no mental effect on the marked being, meaning they can still leave, act of their own free will, or turn traitor against the one that did the marking.
Unless the effect of the mark is physical, there is no way to tell is someone is marked, so it is useful for deniability, at the very least.
Substances
Ambrosia — also known as ‘bliss’ or ‘Angel Delight’ this is a common substance in Heaven, yet serves as a potent drug in earth. Ambrosia looks like a thick, golden liquid. On someone with magical power it brings a feeling of bliss, and temporarily enhances their power (but the risk of overloading is still present). On someone with no magical power, it still gives the state of bliss and content, alongside hallucinations and lethargy — and lasts for hours — which fades slower and slower each time the drug is taken. It is highly addictive, and many people taking it will do almost anything for another fix. The drug is also poisonous to demons, due to its nature.