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Magical Tiers and their effects

SMAndy85

Minstrel
Hi All.

So, "magic" in my world is created by stones, called Tiers. They're small enough to be implanted, or to "melt" into skin without causing much in the way of problems moving.

My feeling is that these Tiers change how you interact with the world, without directly affecting the world themselves. So for example...

You have a Power Tier. This allows you to increase the hardness of your skin to protect you from a sword strike, or to enhance your strength to deal a more telling blow. Not both at the same time.

Someone with a Burning Tier can resist heat (useful on the sub-solar side of the tide-locked planet). It can also allow you to burn like the Human Torch, without hurting you. You can then pick things up and burn them, or punch someone for some nice burns to go along with the pow.

You wouldn't be able to throw a fireball, and you wouldn't be able to, for example, use it to set a ball of oil-soaked rags on fire to throw, because the fire from the rags is not your fire, so would burn you as normal.

I'd like some suggestions for the types of effect someone would be able to get, with various types of stone. They could be gemstones, they could just be rocks, that doesn't matter so much.

I had a thought that perhaps they would have to absorb some power before you can use it outwardly. So before you can enhance your strength, you must absorb some from an enemy's strike. To go "flame on!" you must have absorbed some heat first.

Your thoughts, community!

Thanks.
 

Rkcapps

Sage
I like the idea, i think you'll need to write a bit to work out what works and doesn't work. Maybe Earth Tiers allow you to camouflage with the ground? Air crystals allow you to fly? Just a couple of thoughts...
 

Queshire

Auror
Sounds cool to me. The thread title made me think it was about different levels of magic, but using it for the stones has a nice flow to it.
 

Daelhar

Troubadour
Hello! This idea is great. This is my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but you could make it so the stones can affect things like fireballs and the like. If you did this, you could make each stone have a certain cap on it. Like a strength stone would wear down. One stone can only give you so much strength over time, which could open up to there being people who collect and use more than one at once. So, what do you think?
 

K.S. Crooks

Maester
A great idea. Some things to consider- How are the tiers created and obtained? Can a person have more than one tier in them at a time? If yes can they combine tiers to create new powers? Can a person remove a tier or could be it be removed by someone else?
 

Saigonnus

Auror
I would think the tiers you use interact directly with a person's life force. The more you have, the more it drains your life force. It could serve to limit the number of tiers a person could use at any one time


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SMAndy85

Minstrel
How they're created;

They are a natural phenomenon. They are formed on a tide-locked planet, which under normal circumstances wouldn't have enough magnetic field to protect the populace from solar radiation. Instead, there is a high amount of volcanic activity. This in turn has created deep cave systems in various parts of the planet, which are accessible from the surface in some areas. They are highly dangerous, and require a quest sanctioned by a form of priesthood to attempt the delve.

The Tiers themselves are formed by different salts and gases in the atmosphere in those caves. This has the added side effect that these cave systems are beautiful. Full of luminous salt pillars that appear to hold up the roof of the cave, a bit like the images you see of the super-hot caves in Mexico that people can only survive a few minutes of before the hot air condenses in your lungs and drowns you. I liked that idea, so stole it; call it natural inspiration!

The only Tier I already know of that is 100% confirmed is one that can illuminate an area. These will be used by the pseudo-priesthood, and also allows them to "reveal that which is hidden."

I like some of the thoughts that have come up. The idea of blending into shadows is interesting, as in a tide-locked world, shadows would be perpetual. If a building casts a shadow at one point in time, that shadow will always be there. You could scout ahead, and any maps someone draws of a target could have those shadows marked on it.

I also already had an idea about their strength decaying. Kind of like a "uses per day" thing if it were a game system.

The idea is that since they essentially meld with the owner - either melting into skin, or being implanted beneath the surface, that there will be a limit to how many people could have. I had the idea that perhaps they would be linked with Chakra points, so there's a literal fixed limit to the number anyone can have. The more of a specific kind you have, the more powerful it is, or the more often you can use it. Also, if i went down the route of elemental powers, then opposites couldn't be used. Someone with a fire tier couldn't also have an ice one, for instance.

I'm wondering if it makes sense that a stone implanted in the skin would allow someone to throw a fireball... A current idea is that they alter the way either you interact with the world, or the world interacts with you. A kind of altering of physics that only affects you. So I like the idea of camouflage or shadow melding.

I have also toyed with the idea of the moment someone touches a Tier, it becomes intrinsically linked with them, meaning only they can use it, thus removing the magical equivalent of waking up one day with a missing kidney.
 
I think this is a super cool idea. Are the kinds of tiers determined by geography (ex: fire tiers only being in a specific country)? If you're still taking suggestions, maybe a telepathy tier, where one mode is receiving thoughts, and the other is sending them
 

SMAndy85

Minstrel
Yeah, I'm always open for suggestions. I'll let people know when I've finalised it. I'm glad people like my idea!

I think there will be specific situations where the different kinds can be found, but I don't think it'll be geographical on a country-level. Most of them will be accessible to anyone, as long as they delve deep into hazardous cave networks. Most people won't want to do that, since the volcanic gases can outright kill you in one puff. There is also no such thing as a Tier that makes you invulnerable to heat or cold, otherwise they'd just go off exploring the bright or dark side of the planet, with little consequences. Exile to those parts of the planet is a high-level punishment for law breakers.

My ultimate idea is to have this created as a world for a roleplaying game as well as for a Story. I'm a roleplayer and a GM as well as an aspiring writer, so if I can scratch all itches in one go, bonus.

Coming up with feasible ideas is where I'm at now. The example there being... if you can get a fire tier that allows you to ignite yourself like the Human Torch, why doesn't it also burn you, or all your clothes? No one would ever use an ability like that. Likewise, even throwing a fireball you could burn yourself quite spectacularly. Should there be possibilities like that?

Some are easy to have increasing levels. Being able to camouflage or blend with shadows gives higher strength powers like teleporting yourself short distances to, for example, other shadows.

If I go elemental, I'd like at least 3 "powers" to go with each tier. This also means there would be 6 different kinds. Air, Fire, Water, Earth, Light, and Dark.

Air1; Change the wind. Either altering its strength, or changing its direction. This could allow you to hide from the scent of a creature, or protect yourself against arrows.
Air2; A blast of air to knock someone or something over (Big Bad Wolf)
Air3; Personal flight/levitation.

Fire1; increase the temperature of a touched object. Could be used to start a fire, or create a hot poker. Potentially even cauterise a wound.
Fire2; ??
Fire3; Gout of flame over a short distance. (fireball is too powerful)

Water1; Decrease the temperature of a touched object. Can be used to freeze things.
Water2; Minor healing ability. Think Avatar;last Airbender.
Water3;

Earth1; Increase your strength? or an amount of natural armour?
Earth2;
Earth3;

Light; Secret!

Dark1; Blend into shadows
Dark2; alter/create shadows
Dark3; jump between shadows close by.

Of course, completely open to other ideas for a complete system. Doesn't have to be elemental!
 
Alright, that's pretty cool. I definitely think that branching out from the standard elemental system would benefit it.

Just some ideas to fill in the blanks you have.
Fire2; Can heat multiple objects remotely
Water3; Project high pressure blasts of water. Interacts with water 1. Breathing under water
Earth2; Ability to parse minerals. Touch a cave wall, you know it's mostly granite with an iron vein. ability to deteriorate metals
Earth3; limited eartbending like stuff
 

SMAndy85

Minstrel
Thanks for the input, got lots of good ideas here.

The other thing I need to consider is, how do I restrict access to this magic, for the common people?

Since Tiers are accessible to anyone willing to delve into a dangerous cave, you can get amazing abilities. Ok, so part of the restriction is people not wanting to risk death. Fair enough. But if everyone starts getting them, others would want them to protect themselves.

The plan is to have a pseudo priesthood look after these "trials", so there would be some level of access control. Would it be restricted by the cost being too much for the common folk? Or would the "I'm not going in there!" be enough to curtail access?

I don't want it to be so available that the hero/ine of the story meets people with multiple Tiers everywhere they go. In a small village in the middle of nowhere, there may not be any Tiers in use. go to a town, and you might get a handful of them, perhaps one person with a couple. Go to a big city, and you might go for days without meeting anyone that has one, but then one day you find someone with multiple, and a few people with one or two in the space of a few hours. Then you leave that city, and don't see any Tiers for a decade.

They're naturally formed, so it may take time for them to "grow"...

As always, ideas welcome. Getting some good help so far!
 

Saigonnus

Auror
Maybe consider having only a certain genetic profile as able to use them.

Like it's extremely risky for the average citizen to use one. It absorbs all of a persons life force to trigger it. Maybe the aforementioned priests could control/find those able to use them.


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SMAndy85

Minstrel
An interesting idea, that only some can use them. Given I've already decided that the Tiers of Light have the ability to reveal the unseen or hidden, it makes sense that they could identify who can safely use them.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of the Cake or Death scenario though. I'd be more likely to just go with "they won't work for some". And that will be a minority.

Their proliferation is already being limited by the requirement of delving into dangerous caves, which may very well kill you, to get them in the first place. Then there's the pseudo-priesthood that look after the process charging people for the privilege. Some may be available on the black market, but that would cost an arm and a leg, which even the wealthiest of people would think not worth it.
 

Futhark

Inkling
Interesting idea. Regarding who has them, if the priesthood is in charge then maybe they sanction their favourites. Anyone else caught using one is penalised. An idea for a Tier is speed, that is moving or thinking quickly.

A little note (just cause I'm nit picky about physics), if you hit something using extra speed or strength, you need a more durable body to absorb the impact. Ooh, a rubber body Tier, that would be fun. Slippery, sticky, exuding poisons. A fog Tier, making the user intangible.
 
Another thing to consider is the idea of nobility stockpiling tiers over the years, over having an inherent right to them in the eyes of the church. The contrast between the nobility who inherited their tiers, really desperate people who snuck into the cave for one, and maybe even a class of nouveau riche who don't have the political clout to get them could set up some interesting stuff.
 

Ifritus

Dreamer
Hey SMAndy!
Been seeing quite a lot of your world building posts pop up, and I'd like to just say... from a newbies point of view: you seem to have fleshed out a decent enough chunk of the background lore and setting that I'm intrigued!

Ahem so... my first thoughts regarding your Tier Stones(let's generically call them stones for now )

Are you lumping them all Together... or have you got categories within... say I know your Gods are to be Light, Dark, Life and Moon... so are these stones considered "holier" or more powerful than say the "Physical" stones of strength, speed etc.. or the Elemental ones?
Or are you leaning towards the god stones being considered elementals to


That was my question and also part of an answer on my part cause I do like it when things are near and tidy... it gives he opportunity for the out of place to have more meaning

I have a couple of ideas regarding your "god" stones (in fact are you going to have all these stones or just Light & Dark?

(Rambling again)
So your Light Stone can see the unseen, and someone else mention being able to sense if people were able to use the stones (if you go the route of selective use)
Perhaps on that vein you can go with the idea that Light stones also allow the user to sense other stone users when they are actively using their abilities?
--
Would the Dark stone be the Shadow stone someone already suggested?
Perhaps they cancel each other out maybe? In the sense that the Light stone user can only sense the dark stone user, and not anyone else within the darks sphere of influence (al la smokers from the Mistborn series)
Or perhaps they go hand in hand... Dark stone users can hide things in shadows that only light stones can pierce?
--
Ahem now onto my fun idea: the Life Stone. In my Wip I'm dead set against magical immortality, instead I'm more than happy to allow life magic To instead allow my users to maintain their youth, at the cost of less magical power for other spells(like a sustained spell in a game)

So for your life stones, perhaps they are able to promote growth of life/ heal wounds etc at the cost of their own life force (maybe they maintain youth but a shorter lifespan)
They have an ability to sense all life in a radius around them maybe?
--
Fun bit part #2 the oddball... I hadn't really thought of the powers of the Moonstones... but I had thought that the could be the exception to the rule of the deep cave systems?
Instead moonstones are grown in shallow caves near the peaks of mountains where they bathe in the moonlight?

Phew, long winded post, but hope I've helped a bit and gave you some food for thought, (maybe a full meal for thought? )
 

SMAndy85

Minstrel
I'm glad you asked. I've fleshed it out entirely now, actually.

There are six stones. I'm going to lay them out in a very specific way.

Fire Water
Air Earth
Light Dark

There are opposites. They cancel each other out. Fire vs Water, etc. If you have one of each, you end up with no power. If you have 2 Fire and 1 Water, you have the equivalent power of 1 Fire.

There's also some synergy. Fire and Air together and you end up with lightning, Water and Earth gives you Ice. There are no synergies with Light and Dark.

All the stones are given power by the Goddess of the Moon, Aethir. That occured when the moon was shattered, and the Gods of light and dark used their power to put it back into orbit, ending up fusing some of their power with it. The shattered pieces that remained on the surface sank into the earth, and that is what creates Tiers.

The elements have emotional ties. So Water is love and friendly emotions. Fire is passion, anger and potentially not so friendly emotions. Air is intellect, and Earth is that stubbornness that allows people to stand their ground in any situation. People with Air tiers make for good scholars, while Earth wielders perhaps decent lawmakers. Fire makes for good warriors, as it can instill aggression and a willingness to fight into allies, or too much in the enemy so that they make a mistake. They all have a place, and as with the gods of light and dark, none are considered evil in any way. They are a necessary balance.

edit - They also have the elemental-ness of them, but to begin with, only control. You need upwards of 3 of a particular Tier to be able to create it from nothing.

Light, as well as actually creating light, reveals the hidden, and shows the unseen. Dark doesn the opposite. It's not illusion or anything like that, it's just obscuring.

The difference with Light and Dark is that if you have both, they don't just cancel each other out. Because the tide-locked world has a band of life around it where they meet, when light and dark tiers meet (within the same person), it instead allows that person to heal others. They lose the normal powers of the two tiers as normal, but gain this ability. This is only physical healing - knitting of wounds, mending of bones. It's not powerful enough to resurrect, nor can it heal someone who is dying of blood loss. In that case, you just hope you got to the wounds fast enough to allow them to recover with time.

That healing power matches the goddess of life, and how she sprang into being when the gods of light and dark met, so it's in keeping with the themes, and matches the creation of the world and its people.

I am in agreement about magical immortality, which is why the only god(dess) that still wanders the world with people is not immortal, and cannot be magically healed. She just resurrects when she dies, and has a normal human lifespan each time.

There's no selective use, where only certain people can use them, the choice is made by those who can afford the costs of dealing with the priests of Aethir, then delve into underground cave networks where volcanic gases could kill you in an instant.. Or you can pay through the nose on the black market, and risk being exiled Brightwards.

Now I just hope no one here is stealing my ideas!
 
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