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Do gnomes stand a chance in melee combat?

Peregrine

Troubadour
My gnomes are 135 centimeters tall on average and therefore obviously weigh less than humans on average.
My humans are 175 centimeters tall on average.

Gnomes and humans are different species.

I am not sure whether the gnomes will have robust/stout body or like real-life androchoplastic dwarfs, maybe both?

Gnomes are the most technologically advanced race, for example they invented flamethrowers and grenades, so I am sure they could kill easily from distance with guns, flamethrowers and such. The humans do not have the same level of technology as gnomes.

I am sure that they can kill a human with technology, but do they stand a chance in melee combat?
 
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Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
IRL, short body-builders are a thing. Supposedly they can actually get stronger faster because of their height.
 

Ireth

Myth Weaver
Are your gnomes supernaturally strong for their size? It might be something to consider. Terry Pratchett's "pictsies", for example, are six inches high on average, and can stun horses by headbutting them. They consider twenty humans to one pictsie to be a roughly even fight.
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
I thought it was just bulking up that was faster.

You're probably right.

Still, I imagine in a full gnomish society even that small difference would play out, with bulking out being higher on that list of goals many want to achieve in life.
 

Queshire

Auror
GNOMES! gnomesgnomesgnomesgnomesgnomesgnomes.

*ahem* Sorry.

Honestly, I'd say no. Reach and height have always been a big factor in a fight. Weight too. There's weight classes in fighting for a reason. As much as can be said for skill in a fight, I don't think it's necessary. Tech is simply better. There's a reason we use guns instead of swords in modern day fighting. If you can punt a Gnome... eh, well, fair enough. The tech makes up for it.
 

SMAndy85

Minstrel
Yes, reach and height are a big factor in a fight, but don't forget a Gnome might be able to use his comparatively diminutive stature to get closer and start the wrestling. If you're on the ground, height doesn't matter, and weight isn't as big an issue as you think it might be, because of leverage. If you're protecting your face from punches, or your gut from kicks, you can't throw them off as easily to get up.

I can imagine gnomes would be fierce infighters. With shorter arms, a one-inch-punch would become a half-inch-punch! they need less space to make full use of their strength.
 

CupofJoe

Myth Weaver
One on one, with weapons and armour of comparable worth to each? Then I think that on average the Gnome is going down at some point.
So why would it fight that way?
If you are smaller [and proportionately weaker] than your opponent, you probably don't want to stand toe to toe with them trading blows. You would find another way. Technology would be one, Tactics another.
One advantage you might have is density....
Being smaller means that you could have more weapons in a given area...
If I can get six Gnomes in to the same space as four humans, at least two of the humans are fighting two Gnomes each.
 
Yes they can beat generick humans. Asuming they are a sophisticated culture , they would have good army organization and well made weapons. If they have better farming techniques they would be able to suport a bigger population and a bigger army compared to humans from a similar size kingdom.
 

Viorp

Minstrel
Depends if you look at mokeys. Chimpanzees and gorillas are smaller than humans, but a lot stronger.
 

Peregrine

Troubadour
Chimpanzees are shorter than that and will rough you up something fierce. Size doesn't matter as much as skeletal structure and muscle distribution.

Depends if you look at mokeys. Chimpanzees and gorillas are smaller than humans, but a lot stronger

This seems like a wrong analogy.

Chimpanzees have stronger arms because they are arboreal, they move from a tree to another tree.

Notice that chimpanzees and most other great apes have longer arms such as orangutans, its because of moving from a tree to tree.,

When the human's evolutionary ancestors stopped being arboreal and start relying more on legs, the humans lost the arm strength their evolutionary ancestors had.

Consider the gnomes, do they spend whole life dwelling in the trees to have such strong arms?
 

Peregrine

Troubadour
What if the gnomes were robust and stout as dwarves?

Would this make a difference in melee combat?

(I know that not all dwarves are depicted as stout and robust, but its very common).
 

Devor

Fiery Keeper of the Hat
Moderator
Something to consider . . .

A gnome would train to fight bigger foes while most humans probably wouldn't be training to fight gnomes (although some of the more experienced would). If we assume for the moment that there are a handful of fighting tactics that could give the shorter fighter the upper hand, the gnome will know them, and the human won't be prepared to defend against them.
 

Annoyingkid

Banned
Can you write it in a way that's not hilarious? If you can then they stand as much chance as you can convince us of without it being comedic. Which is something you'll find out when you try writing it.
 

CupofJoe

Myth Weaver
Something to consider . . .

A gnome would train to fight bigger foes while most humans probably wouldn't be training to fight gnomes (although some of the more experienced would). If we assume for the moment that there are a handful of fighting tactics that could give the shorter fighter the upper hand, the gnome will know them, and the human won't be prepared to defend against them.
Along the lines that being a Southpaw boxer was thought of as an advantage...
 

TheKillerBs

Maester
This seems like a wrong analogy.

Chimpanzees have stronger arms because they are arboreal, they move from a tree to another tree.

Notice that chimpanzees and most other great apes have longer arms such as orangutans, its because of moving from a tree to tree.,

When the human's evolutionary ancestors stopped being arboreal and start relying more on legs, the humans lost the arm strength their evolutionary ancestors had.

Consider the gnomes, do they spend whole life dwelling in the trees to have such strong arms?

Well, chimps and orangutans are arboreal but gorillas aren't and in terms of strength they leave chimps and orangutans in the dust. Being arboreal is not the only reason that an apelike being might be stronger than a human. You could consider where they live, what they eat and what might eat them, and see if there's any evolutionary pressure on them to increase their strength.

Another thing to consider is that humans are built for endurance, not burst. Your gnomes might be built for burst rather than endurance, which would make them more powerful than humans in the short term but they'd get tired a lot more quickly.
 

skip.knox

toujours gai, archie
Moderator
I was too flip in my last post. I'll try again.

Yes gnomes would stand a chance. How much of a chance? That is *entirely up to you*. You're the author. Invent what you want and write a story that makes us believe it. It's really not any more complex than that.
 
^What skip said.

Gnomes in general might not be well equipped for melee combat against humans, or against giants, or against bears, but an individual gnome might have the training to be a formidable opponent against any of the above, in general. Of course, there might be specific humans, or specific giants, or specific bears who make strong combatants against even our special gnome. Give your individual characters the kind of back stories that allow you to write the story you want to write, and go for it.
 
I can see gnomes splitting two ways on this. Most wouldn't be very good fighters, preferring to shoot their way out of trouble or avoid it in the first place. However, the ones who don't mind fighting are, through a combination of dirty tricks, speed and sheer violent enthusiasm, really good at fighting.
 
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