Random musings.

[Queshire]

So, I've been thinking more about my story and I think I want to change, well, a lot of stuff. I think my problem was that I was just trying to make a fantasy kitchen sink. I was focusing on setting first and putting plot second. I -know- that approach can work, just look at LOTR, but I think I might be more productive focusing on plot first.

So, what do I want to write? Ignoring setting, what STORY do I want? I know I don't want a cookie cutter good vs evil story, but I don't really want an ultra-gritty drama either, I want something that starts out simple enough but quickly becomes complex. Some clear and present danger to deal with at first, and think about second.

THEMES:
-This world is horrible, this world is wonderful.
-Is the world really worth living?
-What can one man do?
-Keep buggering on.
-Hope for the future.
-Live life while you have life to live.
-Smile even when the world is at it's darkest.

PLOT:

A young man is pulled into a fight not his own. Choosen by the gods to fight monstosities in a war for humanity's survival. But what will he do when he finds out it's not a war, but just a Game? Will he simply continue playing their game? Will he join those determined to kill the gods and take their power despite it risks destroying everything? Or will he find a third option?

PREMISE:

Beings exist that are gods in all but name, perhaps even more then gods. These beings, these Arcana are imense, archetypical, and desidedly alien figures, more idea then being. Each Arcana can select a mortal on the brink of death and empower them with a portion of their esence, turning them into their Champion. The sheer power of this transformation deals with whatever circumstance brought them to the brink of death. As a Champion they act as a channel of the Arcan's power. They recieve a Gift, a unique ability created by the Arcana's power flowing through their subconciouss mind as well as a suite of more general lesser abilities called Talents. The trade off is that they become a beacon for Monsters. No matter where they go they will be stalked by creatures determined to kill them and take the champion's power for themselves. By killing these monsters the champions can in turn take the monster's power and add it to their own. Or if truly desperate for power kill another Champion and take their significantly more plentiful power.

That's all the average Champion knows. In truth, it's all a Game, played out between the Arcana. Each Arcana makes a few powerful champions and numerous lesser creatures. The main bulk of the lesser creatures, an army for each Arcana, fight each other in the Overworld, but occasionally a few will slip through the cracks into Our World where they'll then seek out the nearest enemy, most likely an enemy Champion and try to consume their essence. Monsters created by an Arcana will not attack a Champion of their Arcana and will listen to their champion's orders. Most don't relize this simply because of the low odds of meeting a same arcana monster. This Game is important, it balances the natural forces of the world, and is the Arcana's method of reproduction, once a Champion reaches a certain amount of power they become an Arcana, but that's little consolation to the pawns in the game.

Recently the Game in the mortal world has changed though. Though the Arcana have not noticed, too concerned with the Game in the overworld. One Champion has, well, he's set up a support group for Champions. Instead of just being isolated, forced to fight monsterous creatures with little knowledge of what they are doing, they are banding together, pooling their resources and power. As if that's not enough, he's researching the Game, finding ways to intergrate the supernatural Gifts with the mortal world. His goal seems to be nothing less then breaking the Game, ending with killing the Arcana and taking their power.

However that's not neccesarily a good thing. The Game, while brutal, is a natural part of the working of the world. By breaking it, you risk breaking the world. His plan would free Humanity from the shackles of the game, but even in the best possible case, causing untold pain and destcruction.

So yeah, kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenerio.

Ah, yeah, also, some inspirations for this story include: The table top role playing game Scion, the webcomic Homestuck, Neon Genessiss Evangelion (not sure if I spelt that right) and the manga The Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer (AWESOME manga, if you have not read it before, then read it!)

 

[Ghost]

Quick thoughts:

I haven't read a book where the gods were playing a game myself, but I've heard people complain about them. It's like those books that ends with "it was all a dream." I've heard people who read submissions complain about it, but I haven't seen it myself yet. I don't know if your idea is similar, but it's something to keep in mind.

Nitpicking here, but I could do with fewer capitalized words (Game, Arcana, Champions, Gifts, Talents, Monsters once, Overworld, Our World, Humanity). Others may disagree with me, but I don't think all those need the capital to make them Special.

Why doesn't becoming an Arcana appeal to the Champions. I'd be more interested if people knew it was an option and played the game for the purpose of gaining those powers.

The Arcana need the game to reproduce, yet they also create Champions who become the Arcana? Do these Arcana guys die, and if so why would they give up some of their power for the Champions? How many Champions can each one make? I didn't fully understand this part.

What do the Arcana do when they're not playing the game?

If these Champion guys figured it out and know that ending the game causes destruction, why don't they find another solution, like calling a ceasefire between each other or an agreement to only create weak, ineffective monsters?

It sounds like the monsters' priority is to find champions and consume the power. What happens when they do that? Is it what they need to survive? Do they harm regular folks? Do the Arcana? As a regular person, if Arcana and monsters are harmless to me because they focus on Champions, I'd be very miffed if some Champion decides to bring about apocalypse because he didn't want to participate. I hope there's something at stake for the general population, or else it sounds like this guy will cause widespread suffering for the sake of a few Champions.

Anyway, I'm sure I missed or misunderstood some things along the way. Good luck with your story!

 

[Queshire]

Ah! Lovely questions.

1) I don't really think that's a problem, they can empower mortals, but they can't really control them.
2) Capatilized for emphasis.
3) Some do know, and some try for it.
4) They don't reproduce naturally, only by Champions becoming Arcana allows them to reproduce. They CAN be killed, and their power absorbed just like champions or monsters, but it is RIDICULOUSLY hard to do, and is considered a horrible crime. In fact, one prominent Arcana XV The Devil was a champion who managed to do just that. Arcana naturally generate energy, so it's not like it's lost forever by using it to create a Monster or a Champion, and they have A LOT of energy by themselves. How many Champions they can make vary from Arcana based on strength and desire, some only have a single champion, some have dozens, some go without a champion for a long time.
5) They do very little besides play the Game, these guys aren't gods in the traditional sense, they're more like Fairies in their mind set. The Game is EVERYTHING it's like breathing to them. There success in the Game reflects their influence in the world. When not directly directing the Game they're most likely to be scouting for potential Champions or talking amongst themselves setting up alliances and betrayls for the Game.
6) Finding a third option will be one of the important parts of the story. Also, the Champions don't create the Monsters, the Arcana do, they have no idea that their bossess are sending the same type of monsters -they're- fighting against other Champions. The Champions are as much game pieces as the Monsters.
7) By consuming either a champion's power or another monster's power they A) Make themselves stronger, B) Get rid of an enemy piece, and C) Make their side stronger as a whole as the power influences the whole. Generally, they only focus on the Champions or Monsters of opposing Arcana, so they don't bother normal Humans unless provoked, but if in pain or cut away from their Arcana for too long they can go rogue and attack anybody on sight. Also there is the collateral damage to consider. As for the Arcana, it generally varies, they have little direct influence in Our World except for empowering mortals as Champions, but a few unscrupulous Arcana might try to manipulate events to put a possible Champion in the near death state needed for Empowering. As for why humans should be concerned, well, there's great risk but great rewards. With the Arcana's power all the ills of the world could be erased. These guys are the next best thing to gods, shouldn't they be just a bit more concerned with humanity and spend less time on their little game? Also, the game DOES indirectly affect the mortal world, if XII Death is currently winning in the game, more people are gonna die. If they can safely dispose of the Arcana and put their own people in power they can create a utopia. 'Sides, really, it'd only be a matter of time until somebody tried to kick the gods' collective ass if they knew they really existed, it's just human nature.

 

[Ghost]

The Arcana don't die of natural causes? And they're difficult to kill? It seems like they have some sort of biological or religious imperative to reproduce, or they were programmed to play the game. There should some sort of tipping point when the Arcana population becomes too large, or they should have more ways to die. Maybe they gobble up the power of Arcana who lost.

What happens when you devour an Arcana's power? Do you become one yourself? I don't know who considers it a crime. Other Arcana? Do they look at it as cheating? I'm not sure who among them really wants to worry about that when they're preoccupied with playing the game. (If the loser's power goes to the victor, an interloping Champion would definitely get on their nerves.)

If an Arcana is considered unscrupulous for manipulating events, why isn't that cheating as well? This makes me wonder how their codes of conduct (or game rules) evolved.

The capitalized words say to me, "Hey, this word is special" instead of relying on the story to do that. I don't mind a couple, but they lose importance when they're used so much. The Arcana and maybe the monsters, whose existence is about the game, might think of game terms that way, but ones like Gifts, Talents, Our World and Humanity lessen the impact the others might have.

I think it would be interesting if the Arcana turned humans into monsters as well. It's another incentive to get rid of Arcana, and it creates an ethical issue with killing monsters, even if they're no longer human.

 

[ThinkerX]

Hmmm...interesting concept, though still game dependant.

Are all the people on this world part of the game, or just the champions?

Is there some overall point to the game - even if the point is utterly alien - or is it 'merely a way to pass the time' for the puppet masters?

You might want to read some Lovecraft. Some of those monstrosities would make ideal 'puppetmasters'.

You might also want to look up the concept of the 'demiurge' in gnosticism. This is a God, who mistakenly believes himself solitary and supreme, who created the world more or less by accident...but doesn't really understand his creation, nor does he understand that there are powers greater than he is (though he gets inklings of this from time to time). Most mortal humans are duped into worshipping this or that aspect of the Demiurge...but there are always those who are able to see past that entity.

 

[Konstanz]

There's a lot of raw potential in your premise. But it still needs some... tuning because there are parts of the plot that seem a little cliché. I thought some time before resorting to the word "cliché" because it has a rather negative connotation, but I couldn't really come up with a different, more positive word. The fact is that there are a lot of stories in which the gods manipulate mortals for their own amusement or to gain more power. Also, it seems like those champions are "superheroes" and a lot stronger than the average person in your world. That would of course mean that your main character is a "chosen one" and I don't need to point out that 99% of the fantasy literature has a chosen one. And sadly, there are more good novels in the 1% than in the 99%. I'm not saying your idea is bad (it really isn't!) But you'll have to be careful not to overdo some cliché bits.

Also, why can they only chose dying persons as their champions? You really have to find a believable explanation for that or it will just make the whole idea seem cliché instead of adding some charm to it. But if you would explain it correctly, I'm sure it will be a nice addition.

These are just two small things I'd like to point out. I'd like to end on a positive note. Your idea definitely has potential and if you like it, you should go for it. With some hard work, you can turn this premise into a real gemstone!

 

[Queshire]

Ha~~~~ lots of questions to answer, on one hand I know it can only help, but on the other hand it's a bit annoying.

No, Arcana don't die from natural causes, they're gods, more then gods! Archetypes, titans, forces of nature, etc, and so on. They're closer to stars or planets then mere humans. Playing the Game is the same as breathing or eating for them. It's not something you think about, but you just do. It hasn't gotten to the point where they have to worry about too many Arcana, I'm thinking about limiting the number to 21(+1) Arcana, one for each of the Major Arcana in Tarot cards. Also, becoming an Arcana is very, very hard. Generally only one champion every couple of thousand years or so, I'm also considering a champion becoming an Arcana causing a new Age. More or less rebooting the world.

When an Arcana dies, the element of the world they represent also dies, or at the very least gets extremely weakened due to the sudden loss of the majority of that element's power is lost.

When you devour an Arcana's power the same thing happens as if you devour a Monster's or fellow Champion's power, it gets added to your own. That boost would automatically make you an Arcana. It's not quite a crime considering it's only happened once, more so unprecedented, and risks upsetting the balance of the Game and the World, luckily the one guy that did it killed his own Arcana so he just inheirited his Arcana's forces and bailiwick, leading to little chaos.

The game actually has very little rules, since it's such a facet of their existence, similar to breathing. If they can do it, it's obviously in the rules, even if it might be considered cheap.

The capital letters are just for convience -_- emphasising important terms. I'm not actually going to capatalise them in the story. (much)

Eh, I've had too much with the "oh no! the guys I'm killing were once human! Oh, now I must angst for a chapter" in stories, I want at least the basic idea to be pretty black and white, with tossing in shades of grey later. That said, it's all about Power, Champions have more power then your average Monster, but it is conceivable that mortals could obtain a Monster's power on their own or recieve a fraction of a Champion's power from the Arcana, but they'd wouldn't be monsters, more like priests or mages, just stealing or borrowing power not they're own. Ah, but I DO plan to introduce sentient Monsters later on though.

Basically:
Monsters: Created by Arcana, Little Power.
Mages: Mortal; stole or were given little power.
Champions: Once mortal; lots of power.
Arcana: COMPLETELY ****ED UP, enough power to rival a star.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Everybody in the world can be influenced by the game and influence the game in turn, but the Champions and at most a select few mortals know what's happening "behind the scenes."

See, the movement's in the game influence that Arcana's area of influence on earth, but the belief mortals give an Arcana's area gives that Arcana power to use in the game in a strange paradoxical cause and effect. Humanity provides the fuel for the movements in the game, and the movements in the game affect humanity.

The purpose of the Game is the Game itself. It keeps the world turning, keeps a group of highly advanced beings happy, and lets them make more highly advanced beings.

I think one thing has to be made clear though, they aren't puppetmasters. Their power on Earth is pretty much limited to empowering mortals and sending monsters after other empowered mortals. Mostly they just end up going, here you are, have some powers, oh, by the way, now slobbering monsters will be after you, try not to die.

I haven't read Lovecraft, keep meaning to, but yeah, I think Eldritch really describes these guys.

Also, I like some of the demiurge ideas, but I think my story's complex enough without going into the whole god's gods thing, I'll save that for the epic level campaign if anything (^^)'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, I'm glad you mentioned cliche, see, one of the things that influenced this story is the manga The Lucifer and The Biscuit Hammer. It's an awesome story! The plot starts out simple, even cliche, but the characterization and actions of those characters make it into something wonderfully and totally unique! It was one of those series that made me think "Wow, I'd be happy if I could make something even HALF as awesome as this" which is my main reason for writing.

That's what I want, what seems like on the surface to be a simple black and white plot, but twisting into something gray.

Eh, the whole dying bit was left over from my other story actually... Another idea I had was people becoming empowered when they resonate strongly with a particular Arcana's bailwick, Death might empower you upon dying or some other great change, the Hanged Man empowering based on some great self sacrifice, the Empress empowering a Mother protecting her child, etc, and so on.

But that'd require too much thinking. I figure the dying bit would just be a random rule that people would accept so long as it's consistent, also people are less likely to say No if the alternative is dying, one of the few bits of wisdom shown by the Arcana.

Also, please excuse my rudeness, but, I'm not a child requiring simple encouraging words. I respect my fellow writers too much to just offer empty platitudes, if anything I find them demeaning. I offer my critisms, concerns, questions, and suggestions, without appology and I expect the same out of others. While I accept that you were only being polite with your "positive note", I would hope that you respect me enough as a writer to just say that you think my idea is crap if that's what you believe, trying to spare my feelings would only restrict my growth as a writer.

 

[Ghost]

Here's another annoying post

Ha~~~~ lots of questions to answer, on one hand I know it can only help, but on the other hand it's a bit annoying.

Oh, sorry about the questions. I assumed because it was a post in the Worldbuilding forum you wanted feedback. I should read more carefully. I hope you don't rant at me for making a suggestion (lol), but it helps if you tell us what to do with your post. Otherwise, it might as well be a blog entry.

The capital letters are just for convience -_- emphasising important terms. I'm not actually going to capatalise them in the story. (much)

Oh, goodie. That sort of thing annoys to the point that it's become a litmus test. If I see words like Talent, Gift, or Sight (man, I hate Sight!), I put the book back on the shelf.

I agree about the dying thing, Konstanz, but I don't really see this character as a Chosen One. It sounds like he's part of a group and it's only by chance he becomes a Champion. I wonder what makes this character different enough to try changing the world. Perhaps every other Champion for thousands of years has been a blundering idiot or this character is just that darn special. Perhaps there's another factor to explain why he's the one taking action, one that won't make him look like a Gary Stu.

Also, please excuse my rudeness, but, I'm not a child requiring simple encouraging words. I respect my fellow writers too much to just offer empty platitudes, if anything I find them demeaning. I offer my critisms, concerns, questions, and suggestions, without appology and I expect the same out of others. While I accept that you were only being polite with your "positive note", I would hope that you respect me enough as a writer to just say that you think my idea is crap if that's what you believe, trying to spare my feelings would only restrict my growth as a writer.

Hey, Konstanz. If there were a Game called "Annoying Queshire", you would've won. Don't underestimate me, though, because I'm sure I got second place by asking the most questions.

 

[Konstanz]

Also, please excuse my rudeness, but, I'm not a child requiring simple encouraging words. I respect my fellow writers too much to just offer empty platitudes, if anything I find them demeaning. I offer my critisms, concerns, questions, and suggestions, without appology and I expect the same out of others. While I accept that you were only being polite with your "positive note", I would hope that you respect me enough as a writer to just say that you think my idea is crap if that's what you believe, trying to spare my feelings would only restrict my growth as a writer.

Why would I say your idea is crap when I genuinely mean everything I said? Perhaps our opinions differ on the subject, but I find that it's not just the bad or dubious things that need pointing out, but if something is good, we should say it as well. It's not an apology, it's just my general opinion of the premise. I don't like empty praise as well, but if I mean it, why shouldn't I say it? Who says critique should be 100% negative.

If you don't like that, that's your problem I suppose.

 

[Queshire]

ah, I know questions are good for me, it makes me think of things that might never have occured to me, but they can be a bitter at times just like medicine.

Also, sorry for snapping at you Kon, I just hate those genericly positive statements, for all the warm fuzzy feelings it gives, it doesn't actually help any.

Now, I'm starting to think about how... human to make my Arcana. I mean, at first I had them as just vague impersonal forces, just an excuse for giving the characters their powers, but should I make them characters in their own right, prone to meddling with their champions?

Ok, stupid question, of course you're going to say I should, really, if I hate generic answers then I shouldn't ask questions designed to get just those generic responses.

However, that would raise several problems, it would make it a lot harder to keep the true nature of the game underwraps if they could just ASK their Arcana and would make the betrayal all the more stinging once they learn the truth. How would I do that without making the Arcana seem like complete and utter bastards? Is it enough to just say that it was the god's nature? That the game is neccesary for the world to keep spinning? That the Game somehow keeps a worse force at bay? What would convince someone to give the guys that played with your lives, almost killing you for some game, a second chance?

 

[ThinkerX]

Your 'Arcana' seem to be patterned after the images associated with Tarot Cards - specifically the 'major arcana'.

How much of what the cards actually stand for (and the purpose of the Tarot) do you know?

Also, you might want to look up the history of the Tarot sometime; it has been around for less than a thousand years. Many of the images on the cards do derive from older sources (some of them gnostic).

And again, I would suggest you sit down and read some Lovecraft. Some of those entities would make excellent Arcana, or are at least powerful enough to give even them pause.

 

[Caged Maiden]

My advice would be to maybe list the elements of the story that are absolutely necessary for the story. It helps a reader to be able to get interested in the story before the technical aspects of the world get too lengthy. Can you introduce the story and hook a reader before you go too in-depth into the Arcana and who and what they are? By your initial posts it sounded like you had characters to explore and their points of view would control the story, but now it sort of sounds like the Arcana are the main focus. If they are god-like, they can work in mysterious ways, can they not? It will free you up to have character-driven plot twists rather than use the gods and their games to move the story.