Alex
Troubadour
Ok so I'm curious as to how much world building is too much, and how to tell when you've over done it. I apologize in advance if it seems like a stupid question.
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World Building: how to know when you've over done it?
- Thread starter Alex
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Not a stupid question at all.
I've found, through my experience, that world building should only be extensive enough to accommodate the actual storyline. Did Tolkien go so far as to explain how the people of Rohan disposed of their fecile matter? I don't think so, and why should he? You shouldn't need to force entire political systems down people's throats, at least not all at once, anyway.
Fleshing out your world tidbits at a time is great, but don't take out 1/3 of a chapter to incorporate some part of your world that's non-essential to anything, chiefly the plot.
Keeping things vibrant and unique is always good, but maintain that comfortable level of space between your world building and your plot.
I'm sure I could go on, but I'd like to hear others.
Cheers
I've found, through my experience, that world building should only be extensive enough to accommodate the actual storyline. Did Tolkien go so far as to explain how the people of Rohan disposed of their fecile matter? I don't think so, and why should he? You shouldn't need to force entire political systems down people's throats, at least not all at once, anyway.
Fleshing out your world tidbits at a time is great, but don't take out 1/3 of a chapter to incorporate some part of your world that's non-essential to anything, chiefly the plot.
Keeping things vibrant and unique is always good, but maintain that comfortable level of space between your world building and your plot.
I'm sure I could go on, but I'd like to hear others.
Cheers
TWErvin2
Auror
I'm not sure there is a specific answer that could cover everyone and all instances, or come even close. Maybe a general measure of too much would be if the creation or world building crowds out the actual writing of characters and events that take place in the world that's constructed for them.
I think it's similar to asking if someone can do too much research on a topic before including aspects of it in their novel.
Really, the vast majority of the background of the world created won't grace the pages of your novel. That's okay. Jot everything down, and take notes to refer to. But, in the end, don't forget the purpose of the world building, or use it as an avoidance to writing--if finishing that story is your ultimate goal.
That's my two cents.
I think it's similar to asking if someone can do too much research on a topic before including aspects of it in their novel.
Really, the vast majority of the background of the world created won't grace the pages of your novel. That's okay. Jot everything down, and take notes to refer to. But, in the end, don't forget the purpose of the world building, or use it as an avoidance to writing--if finishing that story is your ultimate goal.
That's my two cents.
AFistfulofBalderdash
Scribe
Rule one I've learned from my own lore-writing.
Lore must compliment the Story. The lore must be suited to the project. And the lore must only be as complex as needed.
In simple terms. Write about culture, history, language, and racial outlook to build atmosphere. Write the plot-lines to explore the lore. And weave them together to create a tale with atmosphere and story. Atmosphere can't survive without a good story. And good story can become a great story with a good atmosphere.
Rule two... for goodness sakes, don't drown yourself in lore details. Keep things simple for you, generalize and then specify. And don't waste time detailing how the normal Elven warrior shaves his back-hair before strangling drake-lings with his loincloth. Sounds awesome but it doesn't lend itself towards serious lore.
Lore must compliment the Story. The lore must be suited to the project. And the lore must only be as complex as needed.
In simple terms. Write about culture, history, language, and racial outlook to build atmosphere. Write the plot-lines to explore the lore. And weave them together to create a tale with atmosphere and story. Atmosphere can't survive without a good story. And good story can become a great story with a good atmosphere.
Rule two... for goodness sakes, don't drown yourself in lore details. Keep things simple for you, generalize and then specify. And don't waste time detailing how the normal Elven warrior shaves his back-hair before strangling drake-lings with his loincloth. Sounds awesome but it doesn't lend itself towards serious lore.
I used to be an extensive world-builder. Meaning all my worlds were built with maps, races, countries, even geography before I even started writing the story or coming up with characters. I owe it to my D&D days I suppose, but I found that doing this could be fun but normally did little to help me write the actual story.
Now I like to world-build as I'm writing. I have an idea of the world, vague as it may be, but I expand it outwards by having my characters do things in the world.
Example: Now I may have a ranger character for instance. He's exploring a forest. Then he comes across a giant frog sleeping in a pond. The frog has killed numerous travelers on the road and is also hunted for its poison glands for use in magic spells. The ranger has been hired to kill the frog and bring its glands back to a sorcerer/merchant that peddles his wares to the bandits and pirates that inhabit the outlying islands.
So in describing this scene, I've done a fair amount of world-building without having to spend months doing it:
1. This world has giant frogs and/or other animals
2. Magic exists and is often derived from different sources (frog glands, roots, whatever)
3. Where the story is taking place is near a group of dangerous islands, pirate culture may be involved
4. The main character may be the ranger or the sorcerer or they may have a partnership
So instead of doing world-building, I just write whatever I feel like. Then I do research on the certain subjects as I'm writing, i.e. frogs, pirates, alchemy...
For me this shaves months and months off of planning and perfecting my world. I feel if I just kind of have a rough idea of what kind of world it is, then I can just build as I go. I find this approach works better for me, but I can also see where the "world-building first" method is better for others.
I think outlining is great and I utilize it more and more, but I try to avoid putting elements of world-building in it. Just keep it rough.
So to answer the question completely, world-building can be effective in moderation. Sometimes it's best to just let your story grow organically as you're writing it and see how the world builds itself.
Now I like to world-build as I'm writing. I have an idea of the world, vague as it may be, but I expand it outwards by having my characters do things in the world.
Example: Now I may have a ranger character for instance. He's exploring a forest. Then he comes across a giant frog sleeping in a pond. The frog has killed numerous travelers on the road and is also hunted for its poison glands for use in magic spells. The ranger has been hired to kill the frog and bring its glands back to a sorcerer/merchant that peddles his wares to the bandits and pirates that inhabit the outlying islands.
So in describing this scene, I've done a fair amount of world-building without having to spend months doing it:
1. This world has giant frogs and/or other animals
2. Magic exists and is often derived from different sources (frog glands, roots, whatever)
3. Where the story is taking place is near a group of dangerous islands, pirate culture may be involved
4. The main character may be the ranger or the sorcerer or they may have a partnership
So instead of doing world-building, I just write whatever I feel like. Then I do research on the certain subjects as I'm writing, i.e. frogs, pirates, alchemy...
For me this shaves months and months off of planning and perfecting my world. I feel if I just kind of have a rough idea of what kind of world it is, then I can just build as I go. I find this approach works better for me, but I can also see where the "world-building first" method is better for others.
I think outlining is great and I utilize it more and more, but I try to avoid putting elements of world-building in it. Just keep it rough.
So to answer the question completely, world-building can be effective in moderation. Sometimes it's best to just let your story grow organically as you're writing it and see how the world builds itself.
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Queshire
Istar
There's a difference between how much world building you do and how much world building you show. Some authors like to come up with this unique and detailed world first, then make stories specifically FOR that world. Unless I'm mistaken, Tolkein did this, but you don't have to and shouldn't try to cram all that lore into your story, just limit yourself to the details important to the story.
Naturally, this world-first idea can work, but I find from experience that when you put that much care and effort into a world, it can be hard to come up with something to DO with it. Personally, I'm trying a plot-first approach, where I come up with the plot and figure out a world to fit that plot.
Naturally, this world-first idea can work, but I find from experience that when you put that much care and effort into a world, it can be hard to come up with something to DO with it. Personally, I'm trying a plot-first approach, where I come up with the plot and figure out a world to fit that plot.
Benjamin Clayborne
Auror
Yeah, this is approximately how I do it, too. After I write such a paragraph, I'll go and elaborate on some of the world-building, and then go back to the story and rewrite it with that new elaboration in mind, but it's a parallel, iterative process. As the story expands, so does the world; and as the world expands, it guides the development of the story.
For me, world building effectively for a story isn't about maps and names and locations of places that just aren't interesting. Some of that does play a role for me, but that role is secondary and dependent on what I want to do with the story. I've developed three world-settings, but I've only mapped one small country in one of them. Some of it was useful, but some of that was more hobby than writing. For the other two, just back-of-the-napkin, constantly-changing sketches so far.
To me, world-building is about finding ways for the setting to interact with and build up the story. When I world build, I'm not looking for gaps of land and asking what should go there, which to me is over-doing it. I'm looking for gaps of logic and gaps in my story and trying to figure out how people would react.
At this point, wouldn't the king be looking for allies? Who are they, and what kind of difficulties would they have in offering help? Ohh, wait, some of those difficulties are things that I can use back here in the story to build up the conflict even more. And wouldn't it be great if I could foreshadow these allies and their reason for turning the king down to make the disappointment even more meaningful? Maybe I can do that by creating an emissary-type character earlier on...
That's the way I try to think, and I find it works for me.
To me, world-building is about finding ways for the setting to interact with and build up the story. When I world build, I'm not looking for gaps of land and asking what should go there, which to me is over-doing it. I'm looking for gaps of logic and gaps in my story and trying to figure out how people would react.
At this point, wouldn't the king be looking for allies? Who are they, and what kind of difficulties would they have in offering help? Ohh, wait, some of those difficulties are things that I can use back here in the story to build up the conflict even more. And wouldn't it be great if I could foreshadow these allies and their reason for turning the king down to make the disappointment even more meaningful? Maybe I can do that by creating an emissary-type character earlier on...
That's the way I try to think, and I find it works for me.
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arbiter117
Minstrel
You can do as much world building as you want, but you don't have to show it all. JK Rowling mentions for the briefest instant about "sumpteen uses for dragon's blood" as part of building her world of magic, but she never says what they are. However, I read somewhere that someone asked her about those uses and she told them exactly how to use dragon blood.
The more you know, the more real your world will be to you and the more fascinating the world will be to the reader. The reader will want to know more, keep them that way.
The more you know, the more real your world will be to you and the more fascinating the world will be to the reader. The reader will want to know more, keep them that way.
- Thread starter
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Alex
Troubadour
Lots of great advice, thank you all!
Argentum
Troubadour
I'm having a bit of trouble with this too. I never had this sort of problem before, but well... writing.
I wrote the story first, creating my world as I went. Only, when the book was finished, I sat back and thought seriously "Is this good enough to publish?" No. So I went back and created more detail about my world so that it would be full and rich. Only the problem that comes from it is a nasty cycle: write, changing/add something to the world, writing some more, then having to go back and alter your story where you changed something. Write, change, fix, write, change, fix.
At the moment, I've found a sort of creation mode and I'm recreating the entire world from scratch: creation, history, races, cultures, currency, places, everything. I had a map, but now I need to design a new one because there are new cities and the previous ones are not in the same places anymore. I know a lot of these is needed to give me a better picture of this world I'm renewing, but Dear God! When do I stop? I feel like unless I know every inch of my world and how it runs, I won't be able to write the story confidently. Does this happen to anyone else?
I wrote the story first, creating my world as I went. Only, when the book was finished, I sat back and thought seriously "Is this good enough to publish?" No. So I went back and created more detail about my world so that it would be full and rich. Only the problem that comes from it is a nasty cycle: write, changing/add something to the world, writing some more, then having to go back and alter your story where you changed something. Write, change, fix, write, change, fix.
At the moment, I've found a sort of creation mode and I'm recreating the entire world from scratch: creation, history, races, cultures, currency, places, everything. I had a map, but now I need to design a new one because there are new cities and the previous ones are not in the same places anymore. I know a lot of these is needed to give me a better picture of this world I'm renewing, but Dear God! When do I stop? I feel like unless I know every inch of my world and how it runs, I won't be able to write the story confidently. Does this happen to anyone else?
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