Let's Have a discussion about healing magic

[Finchbearer]

Well....good for him. Probably does not hurt the ratings But...he's never appealed to me.

As a character in general? I’ve only watched the series so maybe they’ve embellished his sex life for the screen, so I wouldn’t know. I’m not sure I’d want to read the series tbh.

It feel somewhat stigmatising to people who are actually infertile to make fantasy mages so, as if they’ve lost one thing, so they must make up for it with a whole bunch of other things. Yennefer (in the series) also clearly wants to have a family, but the path she was kind of forced on to become a mage made it so she didn’t really have a choice. I mean, for her character arc I think it was actually an interesting storyline, because in some ways that will be relatable to real people.

 

[pmmg]

It feel somewhat stigmatising to people who are actually infertile to make fantasy mages so, as if they’ve lost one thing, so they must make up for it with a whole bunch of other things.

Perhaps to some, but I think people deserve credit for being able to separate stories and fantasy from their real lives. But...I'm not going to walk on eggshells cause some might not like the presentation. Some story teller makes wizards infertile and now we have to wring our hands that they may have missed some aspect of it? I'll just say, people come in all forms. Some will see that and maybe feel its a poor representation, and others in the same boat will be happy to see it. I'm just not going to share the attitude that I owe something to those who didn't like it. They just don't have to.

 

[Finchbearer]

Perhaps to some, but I think people deserve credit for being able to separate stories and fantasy from their real lives. But...I'm not going to walk on eggshells cause some might not like the presentation. Some story teller makes wizards infertile and now we have to wring our hands that they may have missed some aspect of it? I'll just say, people come in all forms. Some will see that and maybe feel its a poor representation, and others in the same boat will be happy to see it. I'm just not going to share the attitude that I owe something to those who didn't like it. They just don't have to.

It’s down to interpretation and perception at the end of the day - it’s just my opinion that that is how it may come across, and I think if it’s being used as a plot device only, then it’s down to the readers to decide if it’s worked or not.

 

[Queshire]

Not saying that you couldn’t have it as part of the story, I was just saying that in The Witcher I think it has been poorly thought out. You can create that suspension of reality in any number of ways, but it needs to be believable for the story too, I think.

Heh, I'm not sure realism was the goal there.

"So you're saying my gigachad protagonist can have risk free sex with the hot girl and comfort her that she's still just as much a woman to me even if she can't have kids? Score."

For me the important thing is just to have any limitations logically follow from how the magic works. Like, It'd be easy to say that all the magic energy held within the average mage's body ends up frying any sperm or eggs produced.

In my setting an immortal archmage that's more magic than matter would, naturally, have difficulty having a kid. For some, that's perfectly fine, but there's been enough archmages over the years who want to secure their lineage that numerous work arounds have been created and the benefits of that research have been passed down to those who aren't, ya know, immortal archmages. I won't rule out the possibility of various curses or individual quirks of one's mana system that would make someone infertile, but generally between alchemical creations, the aid of spirits and plain ol' biomancy any combination of sex and race can reproduce. On the other hand, mana flows through the body and it's easy to use it to develop a cantrip that serves as birth control regardless of what elements you cultivate. If the idea of being a parent goes completely against someone's self image they might even end up developing such a cantrip without realizing it.

It’s down to interpretation and perception at the end of the day - it’s just my opinion that that is how it may come across, and I think if it’s being used as a plot device only, then it’s down to the readers to decide if it’s worked or not.

Honestly the kids cartoon Bluely probably handles infertility the best out of any fiction I've seen.

 

[Finchbearer]

"So you're saying my gigachad protagonist can have risk free sex with the hot girl and comfort her that she's still just as much a woman to me even if she can't have kids? Score."

And she paid the ultimate price to be the ‘hot girl’ I think it’s a fairly limiting storyline but there are also merits to it - from my perspective.

It’s also an interesting idea that being so steeped in magic creates it own kind of immortality, almost taking away that need for biological reproduction. My own mages have longer life spans, and I never really thought about it in that way.

 

[Fyri]

Oh, my main problem was the killing oneself because you were unable to marry or have kids, due to being sterile. The magic making one sterile doesn't bother me. Actually, it's interesting!

But having it bring about early death because of loneliness seems ignorant of other types of love, belonging, and self worth.

On the note of representing real life sterile or infertile people, if it's important to you, just be mindful of how you write the inclusion. There are many ways to... I like cats, so I won’t finish the idiom.

But! Healing magic and costs!

Costs! These are also a really good way to do limitations! Imagine you can heal a broken leg, but it sucks the life out of a tree. Or you heal the disease of someone else, but your body takes the disease inside itself, not making you sick, but adding a weight to your chest or simply making you dreadfully tired. Perhaps all you need to do is sleep it off for certain amount of hours, whereas the disease would have killed the other person.

Manifest (tv series) handled a character with emotional healing like this and I wanted to throw things at him for being reckless and hug him at the same time.

But yeah! So, you could do very few, if any, limitations and have something like elitist healers in gated communities.

Or you could have limitations that actually say what they can and can't do (healing magic only works on certain injuries, you have to know the right spell, etc)

Or you can have costs (Every use of healing magic...comes with a price~).

Or a mixture of the three!

Either way, the amount of limitations you choose and the problems of any costs should affect how your healers are viewed and treated in society. And each culture (depending on how big your world is) will probably view and treat them differently!

 

[Fyri]

Honestly the kids cartoon Bluely probably handles infertility the best out of any fiction I've seen.

I seriously need to watch this cartoon!!!

 

[Miles Lacey]

Off topic, but I definitely hate this as a common outcome. Marriage and raising a family is not the only way to live a successful, happy life. Also, it spins a depressing narrative for homosexual and asexual people, mages or not. Sterile mages could also be compared to eunuchs, who generally lived longer than the other males of their time.

The early death by physical/magical exertion is interesting though!

In my work in progress most people are bisexual. Over centuries quartets and their children became the traditional family. Homosexuals and asexuals often marry and pass off their non-biological children as their own to get their families off their case about not having children. Marriage in this society is not about love but about producing and raising children in a safe and stable environment.

One of the consequences of getting the gift of magic is their eyes turn yellow so they stand out. They also have a unique mage mark that can be seen by other mages (which includes the clergy) so they would never be able to avoid detection if they try to marry on the sly.

I chose not to have children or marry but others find themselves in that situation through circumstances outside their control. There is a huge amount of pressure put upon the childless and the unmarried to get married and have children in many cultures, especially in the Pacific Islands and southeast Asia. Some people do kill themselves because the pressure (and often the shame) becomes too much. And, yes, loneliness is a major factor in suicides among older people.

 

[Guy]

Here are the limitations I use in my stories.
Healing magic and potions enhance and accelerate the body's healing abilities, but that's all. They can't get the body to do something it's completely incapable of doing. Under the right conditions, it could reattach a severed limb, but it could not regrow a new one. The more skilled sorcerers can bend this rule just a bit by combining shapeshifting spells with healing spells, but it takes an exceptionally talented magic-user to do it, and it has limited success.
Some people have violent reactions to healing magic that are as bad as or worse than the disease or injury - the functional equivalent of a severe allergic reaction to medication - and so healing magic can't be used on them.
Some diseases seem to thrive on magical energy, so healing magic will actually strengthen them.
Resurrections are beyond the capabilities of any being less than a god (and it's debatable if even they can do it), although reanimating a corpse is doable.

 

[Fyri]

In my work in progress most people are bisexual. Over centuries quartets and their children became the traditional family. Homosexuals and asexuals often marry and pass off their non-biological children as their own to get their families off their case about not having children. Marriage in this society is not about love but about producing and raising children in a safe and stable environment.

One of the consequences of getting the gift of magic is their eyes turn yellow so they stand out. They also have a unique mage mark that can be seen by other mages (which includes the clergy) so they would never be able to avoid detection if they try to marry on the sly.

I chose not to have children or marry but others find themselves in that situation through circumstances outside their control. There is a huge amount of pressure put upon the childless and the unmarried to get married and have children in many cultures, especially in the Pacific Islands and southeast Asia. Some people do kill themselves because the pressure (and often the shame) becomes too much. And, yes, loneliness is a major factor in suicides among older people.

That makes sense with more context of why the lack of marriage weighs so much on them. So they live in a paradox; society expects people to marry and have kids to be accepted, even more so than it values their contribution as healers, yet also bars them from accessing any methods toward this acceptance.

Gross. In a way, it reflects slightly even on US culture in some states. Ew ew ew. Hegemony can be disgusting.

 

[Fettju]

Hello!

I'm developing a new setting and something I've never considered before now are the implications of healing magic.

I have basically "magic doctors" in this setting and I'm wondering how that would impact society.

I would assume people would live longer. There wouldn't be disease. Broken limbs wouldn't be as much of a problem...

What else?

Should there be limitations to healing magic? If so, what might some limitations be?

Funny how nobody of all these fantasy experts replies with ANY idea at all from real life magic

Fama Fraternitatis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"The Legend shows an agreement with six articles that they drew up prior to their separation, bounding themselves one to another to keep:

1. That none of them should profess any other thing than to cure the sick, and that gratis.
2. None of the posterity should be constrained to wear one kind of habit, but to follow the custom of the country.
3. Every year, upon the day C., they would meet together at the house Santi Spiritus, or write the cause of their absence.
4. Every Brother should seek a worthy person to succeed him after his death.
5. The word CR should be their seal, mark, and character.
6. The Fraternity should remain secret one hundred years."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1686759107712147457

 

[pmmg]

I would put those in a category of spiritual or faith based healing. Not really the same as magic but…included they are.

I dont follow the entomologic relations. Why is magic the only positive one?

 

[BiggusBeardus]

I appreciate all your responses! You folks put some real thought into it. That helps.

What I've decided to go with for now is in order to restore someone's "life force" (living body), the healer must use their own life force to do so. Even worse, if a healer wanted to replace a limb or organ, they would have to give up their own, literally.

That being said, I have decided magical healing is very rare. My setting is "magic-punk" and is sufficiently advanced, so regular doctors do most of the work. Magical healers are around more to heal "magical" ailments.

Also, there are alchemists that can create tonics/potions/elixirs that can treat certain aliments, but this isn't considered magical healing.

Thanks for all the feedback. I enjoyed reading your responses.

Fettju Your source is particularly interesting.