Two POVs in the Same Group

[Philip Overby]

I've got a POV question I hope you kind folks can help me figure out.

So I'm planning for my NaNoWriMo (or write a novella month in my case, as I'm going to spend two weeks writing and two weeks editing, I hope!) and I have two main characters in my story. The plan was to do the 3rd Person Limited POV with one character, but the more I think about it, I want to do two POVs. However, for most of the story, the two main characters are together. What I'm thinking of doing is doing the "named" chapter thing, where you get one character's perspective and then in a different scene you may get another's. I think this will solve my problem I'm having of "Who's the main POV character?" I can dedicate time to both of them.

I notice usually when people utilize this idea, it's when characters are far apart. Have you seen books that use this approach to good effect? Have you tried it before? Just looking for some opinions on what you think about two POVs that are in the same vicinity.

 

[Legendary Sidekick]

I've toyed with this idea before, the idea being to have one character in the action and another observing. Unspoken feelings were the reason behind having two POVs. (For some reason, I always like to justify my experimental approach, even though the justification doesn't need to be obvious to the reader.)

I also toyed with the idea of having an MC who is always narrated by a witness. By toyed with, I mean "actually wrote but didn't try to sell."



I thought GRRM pulled off multiple POVs well. I don't mean the obvious fact he does that all the time in his thousand-page novels. I mean like the Sam/Jon Snow parts where you see two totally different perspectives when Gilly's getting shipped out with a baby in her arms. The two POV characters have different information, which I think is an interesting use of POV characters in the same vicinity (though only temporarily in this case).

I only read bits of the Time Traveler's Wife (for research purposes, I read what I could for free), but it seemed like the male and female MCs were equally important... at least the part I read. In the movie, the MC seems to be the guy.

 

[Graylorne]

Funny. I'm doing this all the time. I always write multiple POV who travel in groups. Now this one is in charge, then another, depending on what's happening.
(The 'funny' means I never think about it. I just do it. So I never wondered if it were anything out of the ordinary).
I don't really have one main main character, either. More like a lead actor and many co-leads, like an old-fashioned stage play.

 

[johnsonjoshuak]

I've done this with both of my novels so far. You just have to make sure that each of the characters has their own voice and mannerisms.

 

[PaulineMRoss]

I've done this in my (only) published book: two POVs, sometimes together, sometimes apart. It has some issues (I kept to strictly alternating chapters, which I don't recommend, it's too constraining), but it can work well. I'm not a big fan of seeing the same event from both perspectives, though, unless there's some major reveal by showing something again through the second pair of eyes. I like it when the action flows seamlessly from one POV to the other; so you see half the battle through one POV, then switch to the other for the rest. But again, there has to be a reason for the switch. The new POV needs to add something.

Good luck with it. Sounds interesting.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I'm not a big fan of seeing the same event from both perspectives, though, unless there's some major reveal by showing something again through the second pair of eyes... [T]here has to be a reason for the switch. The new POV needs to add something.

I couldn't agree more. There's a danger in showing the same scenes through another POV. Primarily, boredom of the reader, which is the only cardinal sin in writing and something we just can't afford.

As Pauline said, if there is something we can only get through a separate POV, then fine...but it needs to be engaging and deliver a "Wow!' moment or I'll wonder why I'm reading the same scene.

A few reasons for doing multiple POVs:
1) Perspective differences that enhance mystery or story & lead to a reveal (that couldn't be done through one POV)...One POV would reveal too much- Think "Fight Club"
2) Distance
3) Two POVs that intertwine to tell the connected story (usually separated by distance at the outset)
4) Increasing tension between characters (for example, highlighting differences that will cause dramatic scenes)
*Obviously, there is some overlap among these....

A note on #4:
If we look at Joe Abercrombie's "Best Served Cold" (a fantastic read, by the way), we get several perspectives that are separated by distance at times, but are often close together as part of a group with a mission. When they are near one another, Abercrombie uses the separate POVs to enhance conflict by allowing the reader to see differences in scheming and changing attitudes pertaining to what's going on around the group. This builds tension because the reader knows some bad things are about to go down (like someone going slowly insane) between the MCs, but some of the characters are in the dark...or at least only suspicious. It works well.

There are other reasons, of course. These are only a few.

 

[Philip Overby]

Sorry maybe what I meant wasn't clear. The two are together but I am not showing the same scene from two POVs just alternating from different scenes.

 

[Penpilot]

I just started a book called Coyote Kings of the Space Age Bachelor Pad. It alternates chapters between two main povs. The difference is it's told from the first person POV.

But any ways, it works. The two main POVs are best friends who are in close proximity.

For myself, I did it with my first book, and I'm doing it with the book I'm currently writing. In my current book, I'm doing it with three major character's and a fourth minor one. They're all in the same city, in the same castle for three of them, interacting with one another.

I have very specific reasons for having each of these POVs, and each POV character has their own agenda that plays a part in the overall story. Remove one of the POVs and I don't think the end of the story could be achieved, at least not easily.

 

[Incanus]

You might want to take a look at the 'Gap' series by Stephen R. Donaldson (beginning with 'The Real Story'). It was from these books that GRRM got his POV structure ideas. There is some distance in space between some of the shifts, but there are plenty that take place in proximity as well, with no overlap. It should be noted, however, that he doesn't start using the 'chapter name is the POV character' thing until the third book in the series (though it is brought in in a minor way in book 2).

I've seen it said elsewhere, wrong or right, that adding new POV's to a story is equivalent to adding sub-plots.

 

[Claire]

My WIP has three POV characters, and sometimes two of them are together. I approach each scene by asking myself which character's viewpoint is important in that particular scene. Sometimes it is obvious. There might be key information the reader needs that is best viewed through one character's eyes, or the reactions and inner thoughts of that character are more compelling or important to the story. Other times it isn't as obvious. I've written a few things from both POVs to flesh out the scene and usually I can tell pretty quickly which character's head the reader needs to be in.

I think the important thing is clarity. In a book with multiple POV characters, it is important to make it clear right away which POV you are in every time it shifts - probably more so if the characters are together. So if you separate POV by chapter, you can name the chapter by character, or just be certain the first sentence or two makes it obvious, so we know whose head we're in. If you change POV mid-chapter, make it really, really clear, perhaps with an extra space between paragraphs, so that the reader knows there's been a change of POV.

 

[Steerpike]

So if you separate POV by chapter, you can name the chapter by character, or just be certain the first sentence or two makes it obvious, so we know whose head we're in. If you change POV mid-chapter, make it really, really clear, perhaps with an extra space between paragraphs, so that the reader knows there's been a change of POV.

Unless you're Virginia Woolf

Or, perhaps, a handful of others, mostly in the more literary fiction community. I've seen mid-sentence POV shift out of Woolf, and there are a few others I have noted who do similar things. For most commercial fiction, I doubt it would fly, however. Readers would rather see clear dividing lines.

 

[Philip Overby]

I think David Gemmell does the mid chapter POV shift pretty well, although it took me some time to get used to it. What I think I'm going to do is just have some chapters from one perspective and others from the other perspective. They won't necessarily alternate though. I'll probably just title the chapters so it's clear. I'll be using 3rd person limited, so it shouldn't be too difficult as long as I make it pretty clear by having the characters think and speak differently.

 

[ThinkerX]

Hmmm...'Labyrinth' is all one POV...'first person textual,' as its told in journal form.

It's sequel, (which I hope to get underway during NaNoWriMo), though is slated to have three POV characters, sometimes together, sometimes apart, though one will be dominate - getting most of the page space.

I took the same approach with 'Empire: Country.'

 

[Claire]

Unless you're Virginia Woolf

Or, perhaps, a handful of others, mostly in the more literary fiction community. I've seen mid-sentence POV shift out of Woolf, and there are a few others I have noted who do similar things. For most commercial fiction, I doubt it would fly, however. Readers would rather see clear dividing lines.

True . I'm sure there are plenty of examples of head-hopping and POV shifting that isn't clear. I think it is one of those things that can be done well, or done poorly - and ultimately it is rather subjective anyway. Some people don't notice the POV shifts and aren't bothered by them, clear or not. I tend to be overly critical of POV shifting - I want it to be super clear, otherwise it bugs me. But that's just me . We all have our "things".

In my writing, I like to err on the side of clarity when it comes to POV.

 

[Butterfly]

I've got a POV question I hope you kind folks can help me figure out.

So I'm planning for my NaNoWriMo (or write a novella month in my case, as I'm going to spend two weeks writing and two weeks editing, I hope!) and I have two main characters in my story. The plan was to do the 3rd Person Limited POV with one character, but the more I think about it, I want to do two POVs. However, for most of the story, the two main characters are together. What I'm thinking of doing is doing the "named" chapter thing, where you get one character's perspective and then in a different scene you may get another's. I think this will solve my problem I'm having of "Who's the main POV character?" I can dedicate time to both of them.

I notice usually when people utilize this idea, it's when characters are far apart. Have you seen books that use this approach to good effect? Have you tried it before? Just looking for some opinions on what you think about two POVs that are in the same vicinity.

I have three POVs in one group. Each has their own chapter, and I don't have consecutive chapters in the same POV. (Can be restrictive and hard to avoid at times, but I've managed it). Each POV isn't isn't always in the same place as the others all of the time. One might be off doing what needs to be done, or KO'd, and the other steps in to carry on the task. They also each have a different rank, and thus different responsibilities.

The main reason though, is that later onin the story they do split up. One is stuck in siege, one has gone for help, the other to track down a traitor.

 

[Philip Overby]

I have three POVs in one group. Each has their own chapter, and I don't have consecutive chapters in the same POV. (Can be restrictive and hard to avoid at times, but I've managed it). Each POV isn't isn't always in the same place as the others all of the time. One might be off doing what needs to be done, or KO'd, and the other steps in to carry on the task. They also each have a different rank, and thus different responsibilities.

The main reason though, is that later onin the story they do split up. One is stuck in siege, one has gone for help, the other to track down a traitor.

Something similar happens in mine. My two characters start out together, but they branch off for a bit later on, so I wanted to establish two POVs early on depending on what the scene called for. I also think it's a way to do more characterization.