Fantasy novel length?

[Aqua Buddha]

What is the ideal length for a fantasy novel? What do readers (or publishers) prefer?

[Ophiucha]

It is certainly the norm in the genre for at least a moderately thick book. Something in your standard Mass Market Paperback side. 300+ pages, or 90,000+ words, is what you are generally looking at. You can go up pretty high, even as a first timer, in the genre, since it is just part of the market. That said, most publishers are not opposed to publishing shorter titles. There is definitely a market for fantasy novellas and shorter novels, although it is not as big as your thicker titles.

[Donny Bruso]

Look at your typical fantasy novel in the bookstore. Most of them run 300+ pages, Like Ophiucha said. I somehow got this thing of 100,000 words stuck in my head. It is a nice, round number after all. (I've got a thing about symmetry that borders on OCD.)

I'm not sure about markets, since I have done zero research, but I've always been told the way to break in is short stories. They can be cranked right out if you have a good idea, and are quick and easy to polish up for presentation, unlike the 100,000 word novel I've been working on for ten years and has gotten nowhere. Once you have a few short stories under your belt, if they are good, people will start asking for a novel. Again, this is just what I have been told.

[Abomination]

For the record, this is not my opinion but the guidelines of the industry.

First time authors are generally advised to stay in the 80-100,000 word length. If you look at the submission guidelines (and blog advice) at most agent/publisher websites those are about the numbers they give. For fantasy, I've seen that pushed to 120,000. Baen Books seems to be the most tolerant, their guidelines say 100,000-130,000.

Some agents and publishers will automatically reject something outside that range. Many say that they will a longer work if it is really, really exceptional. But they usually say this in the theoretical sense, as in "I would accept a 200,000 word book, if it were really good, but it's never happened."

[Ravana]

As long as it takes to tell the story well, and not a single word longer.

There seem to be some people <cough>Jordan<cough> who believe that every fantasy novel must be of "epic" length—or else a trilogy—and this has conditioned the buying market into accepting this more or less uncritically. I'd far rather read 200 tightly written pages than 500 pages of drivel… and so will the editors you're trying to sell to. I doubt any editor out there is going to reject a book because it's "too short," unless it is genuinely so short they won't be able to fit the title on the spine. New authors in particular will be better served with brevity, since the publisher is going to sell it at the pretty much same price no matter how much you save them on printing costs, so they'll be more willing to take a chance on a shorter than a longer work.

This applies to all writing, not just novels: yes, magazine markets pay by the word… but you get paid a lot more for the stories that are accepted than for the ones that aren't. Since magazines always have set page counts, brevity is invariably seen as a plus by them. That doesn't mean you shouldn't write the story as long as it needs to be—just never, ever pad it to try for an extra few cents.

[Rachel.]

Bam.

That link includes recommended word counts for adult commercial and literary fiction, adult fantasy and science fiction, middle grade, young adult, etc.

[kjjcarpenter]

Okay, I have first-hand experience here.

When I was first picked up by my publisher, my first novel was at 103,000 words. The original draft stretched little over 50,000 and over the rewrites I managed to snake my way up, adding in detail and descriptions. While they are confident in the story, they basically said it's too long and I need to shorten it because it's going to intimidate readers because of the time it will take to read it, and impact on sales. This is especially true for a series; if the first novel is smaller, the audience is more likely to pick it up and give it a go.
They hypothesised splitting my book in two, but I said no. It couldn't be done, so my only other choice was to rewrite it and make it tighter. 70,000 words was the intention, however, I could only squeeze it down to 78,000, so we'll see how that goes.

In the 21st century, over 100,000 words for a first novel is, more than likely, going to be too high, unless you're a master of fiction, and even then rare.

[kjjcarpenter]

As long as it takes to tell the story well, and not a single word longer.

There seem to be some people <cough>Jordan<cough> who believe that every fantasy novel must be of "epic" length—or else a trilogy—and this has conditioned the buying market into accepting this more or less uncritically.

Ravana, that made me giggle. I tried giving Jordan a go and got to the second book but couldn't press on. I lost interest when, after 200 pages, little to nothing had happened, and not to mention it took me an audiobook to get through the first one. He is definitely not an author who should be used as an examplar.
A valuable lesson in Australian school: KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid.

[Ophiucha]

When I was first picked up by my publisher, my first novel was at 103,000 words. The original draft stretched little over 50,000 and over the rewrites I managed to snake my way up, adding in detail and descriptions. While they are confident in the story, they basically said it's too long and I need to shorten it because it's going to intimidate readers because of the time it will take to read it, and impact on sales. This is especially true for a series; if the first novel is smaller, the audience is more likely to pick it up and give it a go.

Really? I've had the opposite experience, as an editor. I've had several people ask for help on bulking a manuscript up, not knocking it down, after some failed attempts at publication. For fantasy, it seems a lot of publishers are still hesitant about works that are in the 50k to 80k range. Lord knows I'd love to find a book under 100,000 words in the "New Releases" section of the fantasy bookstore downtown, but it seems like half of the ones that are are just supplementary materials (Paolini's Guide to the Inheritance series, Rowling's Tales of Beedle the Bard, etc.).

But, then again, it could just be a different market in Australia.

[kjjcarpenter]

Really? I've had the opposite experience, as an editor. I've had several people ask for help on bulking a manuscript up, not knocking it down, after some failed attempts at publication. For fantasy, it seems a lot of publishers are still hesitant about works that are in the 50k to 80k range. Lord knows I'd love to find a book under 100,000 words in the "New Releases" section of the fantasy bookstore downtown, but it seems like half of the ones that are are just supplementary materials (Paolini's Guide to the Inheritance series, Rowling's Tales of Beedle the Bard, etc.).

But, then again, it could just be a different market in Australia.

I think the Australian market for reading isn't overly huge. For a book to make our bestseller's list, it needs to sell 3000 copies, which is not a lot at all. It makes sense by what they are saying, though. The first Harry Potter book was under 80,000—look how many readers that hooked—and Stephen King's "The Gunslinger" is under 60,000, and that still remains one of my all-time favourite novels. So it isn't rare when looking through history, but recently, I've noticed this trend in bulking fantasy starters. As an editor, I've also been taught of the benchmark 100,000 words for a first-time author, but it doesn't seem to be the case for much longer in this society where reading is dwindling. Although, half of the books I see on the shelves never get anywhere and are unheard of, so the argument goes both way.

Regardless, I listen to my publisher. They're the one who will be writing the cheques.