Moving on from the Bechdel test threads, I think it's time we got this discussion moving again. I have not called this Bechdel thread part 3 or whatever because I think we've moved past discussion of the test format - the consensus seems to be that it's a blunt tool and not necessarily useful - to discuss how we can improve portrayals of female characters, where it has been done successfully or badly in recent published fiction, and look at character archetypes which are either exclusively men or exclusively women, and examine why this is and how we can challenge it.
But there are rules, to prevent this from getting out of hand again:
One thing brought up in the last thread was that there are rarely female characters who are genuinely cowardly - they're either frightened, briefly, for the hero to help out, or brave, self-assured women. What other flaws or strengths do you rarely see in a female character that you often get in male characters?
You also see a lot of female warrior types who either try to keep up with the men, or exceed their abilities. But you don't often see male characters in female social spheres or professions, trying to prove they're just as good as the women. Is this because the activities generally written about in fantasy are usually traditionally male activities, like soldiering, or is there something deeper? Has anyone read anything, or writing anything, that shows a male character in this situation. I think it could certainly work in situations with mages - if magic is generally a feminine pursuit, whereas swordplay and physical fighting is more masculine in a particular orld, a male mage trying to make his way in a normally female pursuit would be possible.
But there are rules, to prevent this from getting out of hand again:
- If you don't think this needs to be discussed, don't discuss it. Leave the rest of us to discuss it.
- Don't characterise any position you do not hold. This leads to straw man arguments.
- Let's keep away from real world gender politics and just discuss the topic as it relates to characters in fantasy stories.
One thing brought up in the last thread was that there are rarely female characters who are genuinely cowardly - they're either frightened, briefly, for the hero to help out, or brave, self-assured women. What other flaws or strengths do you rarely see in a female character that you often get in male characters?
You also see a lot of female warrior types who either try to keep up with the men, or exceed their abilities. But you don't often see male characters in female social spheres or professions, trying to prove they're just as good as the women. Is this because the activities generally written about in fantasy are usually traditionally male activities, like soldiering, or is there something deeper? Has anyone read anything, or writing anything, that shows a male character in this situation. I think it could certainly work in situations with mages - if magic is generally a feminine pursuit, whereas swordplay and physical fighting is more masculine in a particular orld, a male mage trying to make his way in a normally female pursuit would be possible.