Twisty Twists

[pmmg]

So, I think it is kind of a given that having great twists in a story is kind of a goal to itself. But I must say, I am not sure how many stories contain them, or how compelling they really are. Maybe in the mystery genre they matter more, but do they matter a whole lot? Do you find yourself holding back and sharing no secrets until its all written on the page and the readers can enjoy the surprise? Do you write with having a big twist in mind? Do you think stories need them? or might they just be for extra excitement? Is this a goal that one should aspire to....creating stories with great twisty stuff happening in them? And would it hurt a story, or an author, if they did not appear so often?

What do you think on writing twists into the story?

 

[skip.knox]

That's too general to have much of a useful answer. I don't have much confidence that I can write a surprise. I base this on the fact that my wife consistently figures out twists in a story (movie or book) long before I do.

But a twist doesn't have to be a complete surprise. A complication might loom on the horizon but it can be uncertain whether it will happen or not. More, the exact nature of the complication can be obscured.

I have a hard time considering such factors apart from a particular story. At which point, it's really just whatever I think the story needs. For example, I'm currently writing what I guess would be called a mystery, but I don't really care whether the reader figures out whodunnit ahead of time. What matters is what my main characters do in the figuring out, how they manage it, and the consequences that follow. I'm pretty well convinced that Reader A is going to see the twists coming no matter what I do, while Reader B will be surprised by just about anything.

 

[Mad Swede]

I never write with any particular plot twist in mine, they just happen. That's partly because of the way I write, and thats down to my dyslexia. My editor often says that stories need twists, otherwise they risk becoming too linear to keep the readers interest. But she doesn't think that plot twists should be complete surprises, although that can sometimes work. I get the impression she thinks its all a matter of balance, but as I'm never quite certain how my stories form before I write them I don't know how I get that balance (although I do know that others think my stories have balance).

 

[Demesnedenoir]

yeah, I'd say a twist isn't necessarily a surprise, but it can be... some readers pick up on clues better than others. Twists can be expected and still work, heck, that might be preferred according to some studies on the subject. In large part, consumers of stories like to know what is going to happen, hence people rereading and rewatching movies and tv shows. The best, IMO, are the ones that get past me so that I say... "I should've seen that." I always shoot for twists and turns and surprises because that's what I would prefer to read.

A danger to twists, since they are expected even if the twist is unexpected, is disappointment in the "twist'. For instance, the first episode of Picard Season 2 I watched with no idea what was going on... Cool! The Borg! Cool! Q! Episode 2... oh come on, another alternate reality timeline screwed up story? Booooo. I'll keep watching because there might be another twist I like, but that bummed me out.

 

[Avery Moore]

I love writing with plot twists in mind, and I also love adding little subtle hints all the way through until the big reveal. Small enough that the reader doesn't automatically figure it out, but enough so that when the reader looks back on all the hints, they kick themselves for not figuring it out sooner.

As for whether stories need them... No, not at all. I'd say most of the best stories I can think of don't have any plot twists at all. Also, while I absolutely love a good plot twist, a bad plot twist can absolutely ruin a story. Happens a lot in horror movies.

For instance, let's take Star Wars! The plot twist of Darth Vader being Luke Skywalker's father in The Empire Strikes Back was absolutely iconic. Everyone was blown away. Nobody saw it coming. Still, you can look back and see that it was George Lucas's plan all along. It was the big reveal he'd been building up to and it really paid off... But then... You have Rey being Palpatine's granddaughter at the end of Rise of Skywalker. Surprise! Bet you didn't see that coming! ... No. No, we did not see that coming at all. You know why? Because it's fucking stupid, makes absolutely no sense, completely rewrites Rey's already established backstory from The Last Jedi, and the writers totally just made it up at the last minute to earn some extra nostalgia points.

So... Yeah, to sum up, plot twists are great, but not necessary. If you do want to include a plot twist though, make sure it actually makes sense and is consistent with everything else you have written up till that point (or edit what you've already written so that it does make sense.) Don't just throw in a nonsensical plot twist just for the sake of having a plot twist.

 

[unholyGhostwriter]

Hmm. This is kind of a hard question to answer. Mainly because whether or not a twist is needed in a story REALLY varies.

I think a twist in a story depends on a lot of factors concerning both what the writer is going for in the story, and the story itself. Every genre of prose has the potential to have a twist in it (like a villain having an unexpected backstory in an adventure, or a love-interest being a terrible person in a romance). It also kinda boils down to how the reader receives the twist itself. So if I'm being honest, the usefulness of or need for a twist is entirely subjective.

I personally think it all depends on whether or not the story needs a twist. Sometimes twists work, sometimes they fail woefully, and usually the latter happens when it's not needed, or if it's just a plain ol' badly written one. I think writing a twist into a story is really cool when done well, but unless the story would literally be better if it had one (which, once again, is subjective), I think a story can flow just fine without it. Personally, I like numerous little twists that tie into one another as opposed to one big, jaw-dropping twist, because in my opinion a lot of them are kind of cliche, or even predictable. But no twists is good. You could even say that the twist is that there isn't one. Subvert expectations.

I'm not very good at writing twists, so this is mostly from a reader's perspective. But from a general standpoint, twists are cool when well-executed. But I guess the best question to ask yourself as a writer is, "Even if this twist would be really good, does my story really need one?"

 

[Penpilot]

So, I think it is kind of a given that having great twists in a story is kind of a goal to itself.

I'm not sure if I'd agree that it's a goal to itself. I find twists are about coming to a point in the story where there are several directions a story could logically go and there's an ah-ha moment that if used--and it doesn't have to be used--could take the story into an expected place. I feel it has to come naturally and fit the story you're trying to tell. It can't be forced.

Sometimes writers overestimate the value their secrets a little too much and try to keep the secret a little too long to the detriment of the story. You ever see a "big" story reveal and think to yourself, "That's it? Five friggen seasons and THAT's the secret?" Sometimes the story can be way more interesting by revealing secrets as soon as possible, because they can branch off into a variety of interesting conflicts that wouldn't be possible if the secret were kept. For me, there's much more to be gained from revealing things than hiding them.

 

[Devor]

I've been tossing through an answer here for a few minutes now, trying to figure out what I want to say, and how that compares to the way I've actually built my story out. The truth is, I love a nice twist and a good reveal. I like to write them. I like to play with them. And I mean play, as it feels like a game to write them, and I get all giddy with duping delight.

My wife and I play this Once Upon a Time storytelling game, and on one of the blank event cards I scribbled "Revealed to be a wizard." It's the best card in the game. It always spins the silly story on its head.

Look, my characters have stuff going on before the story begins. Smughitter begins like fourteen years after the big battle which destroyed their homeland. Where were they that day? What have they been doing since? What exactly are they trying to do now? I've given myself room to hide things that I can reveal as we go. And that's before we get into the bad guys, the terrible things they can do going forward, and how that'll change the plot as things go.

Which I think are two different things. There's the reveals that come from the backstory, where nothing is exactly what it seems, and there's things that come from the plot, where suddenly your big army was destroyed and the good guy nation is now three people against the world. There's "I am your father" and there's "he's now frozen in carbonite," two very different types of twists. I'm a fan of both.

But you've got to be careful. You don't want a twist that undermines your story. Twists don't need to be big. They don't need to come from left field. The good guy doesn't have to secretly be evil. That's not necessary. If you're writing a sports story, the twist is that the best player sprains a leg, and the underdog catches the ball at just the right time. That's all it takes. You just need to mix it up a little. At the last moment the hero loses his sword, draws a dagger, stabby mcWin. It's not much, but sometimes it's enough.

 

[Prince of Spires]

When is a twist even a twist? For big ones it can be obvious. But what is the plot twist in Star Wars episode 4, a new hope? They go from "bring the plans to the rebellion" to "we have to destroy the deathstar". Not so much a twist as just an expansion of the plot.

How about in Lord of the Rings? Maybe that Gandalf lives (sorry, spoiler) or that Frodo fails but doesn't? Not sure I'd really call those a big twist.

Often a twist is simply a direction the plot is heading in. Or a character learn new information and they change course. Is that really a twist or just the plot?

I think the best twists are those that you either could have seen coming, or those that you figure out about 2 paragraphs before they actually happen. If you don't properly foreshadow them, then your reader will probably feel cheated and dislike the book. At least when it comes to a twist past the halfway mark.

 

[ladyander]

I don't see twists as even one goal of a story. I don't go into writing a story thinking about how many twists I can add. They just happen as part of the story's progression. Now, if I was writing something that depends on a plot twist, certainly I will give it thought. However, I like subtle things, so I'm likely never going to write some huge twist. I like small twists that just flow with the story.

In fact, I kind of wish there wasn't so much value put on twists. Because the immediate thought is writing them big. However, this thought seems to have led to some irritating instances where they become a cheap method to keep an audience interests. They build something up, dragging it out, and when it comes time to deliver, it falls flat.

 

[LittleOwlbear]

I'm tiring of seeing "twists" everywhere. Most twists aren't twisting anyway and are bending emotional and otherwise great moments just to shock the audience. Most are there for cheap and sudden excitement, imo.
Also it depends on the genre a lot. In a crime story or thriller you could expect a twist much more than in other genres.

I'm more of the "the journey is the goal"-person, as a reader and as a writer. In most cases I don't care much for spoiler either. There were only a few exception, but it's not the outcome that makes the story worthwhile, but the journey to get there. Uhm pretty much like life.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Life is full of twists, unless your life is boring as hell. And your life could end on a twist (even one not foreshadowed... gasp!) that you will never know about. (perhaps that's the greatest twist of all?) I know there are parts of my life that, if I wrote them, some people would call bullshit, but they were very real. All you have to do to find twists is look at modern politics. Life is full of them. They're everywhere. Of course, dos ex machina exists in real life but is frowned upon in literature.

Even most straight-line romances have twists, even if they are predictable and baked right into the formula. For instance, Lover A runs back to Lover B looking to get back together, B spurns A, but not long after comes back to A, and the story ends. This is formulaic, but if set up well, B spurning A, it is, in fact, a twist because the audience is seeking that reconnection and expects them to get back together because we all know that deep down B loves A! The first time we read/view this plotline, that's a serious twist. Breaking that conventional, formulaic twist then becomes a twist in itself.

Of course, there are also degrees of twist. Can a story be written without subtle twists? I'm not sure. Even If you Give a Mouse a Cookie has twists depending on how one defines twist.

I'm tiring of seeing "twists" everywhere. Most twists aren't twisting anyway and are bending emotional and otherwise great moments just to shock the audience. Most are there for cheap and sudden excitement, imo.
Also it depends on the genre a lot. In a crime story or thriller you could expect a twist much more than in other genres.

I'm more of the "the journey is the goal"-person, as a reader and as a writer. In most cases I don't care much for spoiler either. There were only a few exception, but it's not the outcome that makes the story worthwhile, but the journey to get there. Uhm pretty much like life.

 

[LittleOwlbear]

Life is full of twists, unless your life is boring as hell. And your life could end on a twist (even one not foreshadowed... gasp!) that you will never know about. (perhaps that's the greatest twist of all?) I know there are parts of my life that, if I wrote them, some people would call bullshit, but they were very real. All you have to do to find twists is look at modern politics. Life is full of them. They're everywhere. Of course, dos ex machina exists in real life but is frowned upon in literature.

Even most straight-line romances have twists, even if they are predictable and baked right into the formula. For instance, Lover A runs back to Lover B looking to get back together, B spurns A, but not long after comes back to A, and the story ends. This is formulaic, but if set up well, B spurning A, it is, in fact, a twist because the audience is seeking that reconnection and expects them to get back together because we all know that deep down B loves A! The first time we read/view this plotline, that's a serious twist. Breaking that conventional, formulaic twist then becomes a twist in itself.

Of course, there are also degrees of twist. Can a story be written without subtle twists? I'm not sure. Even If you Give a Mouse a Cookie has twists depending on how one defines twist.

I'd say life is full of logical consequences of certain circumstances, except we are talking about suddenly getting a cancer diagnosis or something in that direction.

Like, when I go out somewhere and talk to people, I could expect to meet a person who might become my future partner or a close friend, or not.
When I go out to fulfill a quest, I can expect that something happens to me on that way, I wouldn't call any of it a twist.

To me, a twist is a sudden turn to shock the audience and keep them on the edge.

Tbh that's not what I understand by the term straight-line romance. To me a straight-line romance should exist without any of the soap-drama. A straight-line romance to me is people meeting another, getting to know another and decide to be in a relationship - and I'm a big fan of romances that develop into a relationship by the middle - or characters that even start out as a couple.

 

[Demesnedenoir]

Yes, I suspect we'd have to spend way too much time defining things. However, twists tend to be logical, or they don't work.

So, Game of Thrones, Ned Stark agrees to plead guilty or whatever in order to stay alive and take the Black, and go walk on the wall. Joffrey has his head cut off anyhow. Twist or not a twist? It is logical and foreseeable.

A logical result of driving could be dying, amongst other logical possibilities. But I don't think being a logical result eliminates the possibility of a twist. Pretty much all well-written twists are logical results.

 

[The Dark One]

When is a twist even a twist? For big ones it can be obvious. But what is the plot twist in Star Wars episode 4, a new hope? They go from "bring the plans to the rebellion" to "we have to destroy the deathstar". Not so much a twist as just an expansion of the plot.

How about in Lord of the Rings? Maybe that Gandalf lives (sorry, spoiler) or that Frodo fails but doesn't? Not sure I'd really call those a big twist.

Often a twist is simply a direction the plot is heading in. Or a character learn new information and they change course. Is that really a twist or just the plot?

I think the best twists are those that you either could have seen coming, or those that you figure out about 2 paragraphs before they actually happen. If you don't properly foreshadow them, then your reader will probably feel cheated and dislike the book. At least when it comes to a twist past the halfway mark.

The twist in LOTR was that Gollum saved Frodo (and the quest) at the very death when trying to serve himself. It was heavily signposted by Gandalf but my 12 yo self never saw it coming.

I've mainly written crime so twists come naturally to me. The curse though, for me as a reader/viewer, is that it's VERY hard to trick me. It's got to the point that I love being tricked but it doesn't happen often because I am so aware that nothing gets written by accident. I do it myself so it's easy for me to spot the apparently inoccuous moments that are setting up something big later.

Also very satisfying are the smaller twists (surprise revelations) that happen throughout the plot - plot kickers I call them - as they send the story careering off at a tangent to what was expected.

Having said all that, twists are not needed in every story.

 

[Finchbearer]

It’s a good marketing tool. Which kind of reflects the subject of my other post with the Moshfegh quote - do you need a twist to get that book deal, or to make your book more likely to sell? Yes and no. But I wouldn’t make my story have a massive twist towards the end or at the end just for the sake of sale bait.

 

[The Dark One]

Unless it was a whodunnit, I'd be amazed if the lack of a twist lost anyone a publishing deal.

A really good one in an appropriate story might help get the book across the line, but the vast majority of submissions have been rejected long before the twist arrives.

 

[Finchbearer]

Unless it was a whodunnit, I'd be amazed if the lack of a twist lost anyone a publishing deal.

A really good one in an appropriate story might help get the book across the line, but the vast majority of submissions have been rejected long before the twist arrives.

If there’s a twist to be sure it’ll be in the marketing spiel! Especially if it’s kind of what makes the book. Surely that gets put in the query letter if an author aims for making the twist a major appeal to the book.

 

[Prince of Spires]

The twist in LOTR was that Gollum saved Frodo (and the quest) at the very death when trying to serve himself. It was heavily signposted by Gandalf but my 12 yo self never saw it coming.

I guess you could call that a twist. However, for me that's simply the story happening. Yes, it was surprising in that it wasn't the main protagonist who saved the day in the end. But it's not really the kind of thing what I think of when I think about a surprising twist in a story. Otherwise, you could label almost any moment in the story where a character makes a choice a twist.

If there’s a twist to be sure it’ll be in the marketing spiel! Especially if it’s kind of what makes the book. Surely that gets put in the query letter if an author aims for making the twist a major appeal to the book.

Even then though, I think the majority of the query letters don't get read. At least, if I was an editor, I would first pick up the first page of the actual novel and read that to see if it's good enough and reject most of the stuff based on that one page. Only after I'd find the first chapter good enough would I bother with the query letter and find out about the twist. After all, why bother with the query if the writing is crap. Only exception might be if the writer is famous, in which case a ghostwriter is always an option.

 

[Finchbearer]

I suppose I would find it strange that a major twist ‘that you didn’t see coming’ would only be found by chance when a publisher or agents looks at a manuscript, only to find out that a major element of the book is a good marketing point after they’ve already approved it.