About the moon

[skip.knox]

I'm looking for variations on terms for moon phases. For example, I have found where in English we usually say new moon there can also be "old moon" or "dark moon". I can then let my elves use one of those phrases, orcs another.

So I'm looking for similar variations for full moon, and maybe for waxing and waning. I don't think there's a need for any more precision, except maybe also for crescent moon. I think that one can also be sickle moon. Note that I'm not looking for terms like hunter moon or harvest moon. Those are easy to find. I'm just looking at phases. You could say (though I hope you don't) that I'm going through a phase.

The variations can come from other languages, of course!

FWIW, some searching on the Net yields mostly translations, but I did come across this
New Moon Names

 

[pmmg]

Seems like you are going through a phase....

You want something for all phases?

How about bright moon, dark moon, shrinking moon, and growing moon?

 

[skip.knox]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yeah, all the phases, though I have immediate need for only one. I'm still trying to decide if I want my chase to be in the darky dark dark, or if I want the visual effects of a full moon. Gonna have to decide soon, as I'm in the midst of writing the scene!

Dark moon I'm definitely using. Shrink and grow are ok, but looking for something with actual usage somewhere. Bright moon is too generic, I think, as under such a moon I would be mentioning brightness and don't want to restrict that word to an appellation.

(your clever turnabout of my (parenthetical) request did not phase me)

 

[Avery Moore]

Don't forget blood moon! Though that applies more to a lunar eclipse than an actually phase of the moon, so would be rarer.

I've heard the terms "first quarter" and "third quarter" before, though I suppose that sounds kind of boring. And, apparently a 2/3rds moon is called a Gibbous, which I've never heard before.

Also, I found this article on an Old English Lunar Calendar, if that's any help.

The Old English Lunar Calendar – Timey's Calendarium

 

[pmmg]

I find I am not really sure what you after.

Most of those names are for specific moon events, and not the everyday cycle for the moon. Such that a blue moon is one that if full twice in one month, but it seems you are not asking about those. You want names for each day of the phase, or when the phase has changed enough that we would give a new name, such as a different name for Gibbous and quarter moons.

Are you also looking at this in the way Orcs and Elves might use the names as opposed to humans?

Orcs and Elves would have me make assumptions that may not match your story. But a Orc, going by DnD terms would have infravision, and see at night. This would give them an advantage over other creatures in the period of a new moon. I could see them using terms like 'Hunters Moon' for when it is all dark, and 'All Eyes Moon' for when it is full. When the moon is getting darker (waning), might not a term like ambush moon, or skirmish moon seem to fit, and when it is getting brighter, maybe terms like a biding moon, such as a moon they would be better to wait to the next phase before raiding that human village, or a Man's moon meaning it is becoming more favorable to non-dark seeing creatures?

Is that kind of what you are after?

 

[Rosemary Tea]

I've heard the terms "first quarter" and "third quarter" before, though I suppose that sounds kind of boring. And, apparently a 2/3rds moon is called a Gibbous, which I've never heard before.

First quarter and third quarter could also be called the waxing half moon and the waning half moon, respectively.

Technically, a gibbous moon is the 2/3rds moon when it's waxing. The waning 2/3rds moon is the disseminating moon, although some call it a waning gibbous moon (and call the other gibbous moon the waxing gibbous moon).

The waning crescent phase is the balsamic moon. Again, technically, crescent means the waxing crescent, if you go back to the root of the word (from the Latin for "growing").

 

[Rosemary Tea]

Yeah, all the phases, though I have immediate need for only one. I'm still trying to decide if I want my chase to be in the darky dark dark, or if I want the visual effects of a full moon. Gonna have to decide soon, as I'm in the midst of writing the scene!

Have you included any mention of the moon phase earlier in the same story? Or any mention of a holiday that takes place at a specific moon phase (like, for example, Easter does) if such holidays exist in the world you're writing?

If so, that might be a deciding factor right there. If it's the day before Easter, a dark moon won't do. If you had a night scene with no moon, because the moon was new, take place three nights earlier, a full moon won't cut it. (I realize you're probably not using a setting with Christian holidays, but if there's any equivalent in your setting, watch for consistency.)

 

[skip.knox]

>when the phase has changed enough that we would give a new name, such as a different name for Gibbous and quarter moons.
This. Phases.

I was really hoping some folks might know terms from other languages, but I welcome freeform ideas as well.

Here is the line from the novel that got me thinking along these lines.
"Back home, they call it a new moon, Val thought, and the elves call it the old moon. But Val liked the ogre term best. The dark moon."

Once I had that, I thought I ought to get some alternatives for the other phases. Both old moon and dark moon come from other languages or usages in real Earth.

I did find "crossing moon" from French, but I'm not sure I'll use that one.

I collect this sort of stuff.

 

[Prince of Spires]

I just learned that in Dutch the term for the last 5 or so days before the new moon are called the "ashen" moon.

 

[Aldarion]

I'm looking for variations on terms for moon phases. For example, I have found where in English we usually say new moon there can also be "old moon" or "dark moon". I can then let my elves use one of those phrases, orcs another.

So I'm looking for similar variations for full moon, and maybe for waxing and waning. I don't think there's a need for any more precision, except maybe also for crescent moon. I think that one can also be sickle moon. Note that I'm not looking for terms like hunter moon or harvest moon. Those are easy to find. I'm just looking at phases. You could say (though I hope you don't) that I'm going through a phase.

The variations can come from other languages, of course!

FWIW, some searching on the Net yields mostly translations, but I did come across this
New Moon Names

In Croatia:

Black moon is called the "young moon", white is "full moon", and other two are "last quarter" (top) and "first quarter" (bottom).

Anyway, this might help as well:
What are the names of full moons throughout the year?
What Are the 8 Major Phases of the Moon? - Earth How

 

[Rosemary Tea]

Here is the line from the novel that got me thinking along these lines.
"Back home, they call it a new moon, Val thought, and the elves call it the old moon. But Val liked the ogre term best. The dark moon."

Once I had that, I thought I ought to get some alternatives for the other phases. Both old moon and dark moon come from other languages or usages in real Earth.

I did find "crossing moon" from French, but I'm not sure I'll use that one.

I collect this sort of stuff.

Maybe this will provide some more ideas: old moon, new moon, and crossing moon describe different phases of the dark moon.

Crossing moon describes what the moon is doing for most of that period: crossing the sun. But it actually disappears from our sight about a day before it makes the crossing and doesn't reappear until about a day after it has crossed.

New moon describes the moon when it has begun to wax. Old moon describes the moon at the last phase of its wane. Either way, the moon is dark and we don't see it, but old moon and new moon are actually different parts of the dark moon phase.

 

[Hybris]

I'm looking for variations on terms for moon phases. For example, I have found where in English we usually say new moon there can also be "old moon" or "dark moon". I can then let my elves use one of those phrases, orcs another.

So I'm looking for similar variations for full moon, and maybe for waxing and waning. I don't think there's a need for any more precision, except maybe also for crescent moon. I think that one can also be sickle moon. Note that I'm not looking for terms like hunter moon or harvest moon. Those are easy to find. I'm just looking at phases. You could say (though I hope you don't) that I'm going through a phase.

The variations can come from other languages, of course!

Well, I'm not sure if that's what you are searching for, but I found this article Comprendre : les phases de la Lune (in french).

French use similar terms for the moon phases as english, but I did not found in this thread the numbers, like new moon, first crescent, fisrt quarter, waxing gibbous moon, full moon, waning gibbous moon, last quarter, last crescent... I know everything has already been said, but I didn't see "first", "last", so I thought it would be useful. And the article talks about more I didn't know about (name for full moon depending of the month).

And of course, the moon is in french "croissante" or "décroissante" , and that may be linked to the word "croissant" - crescent (that would be cool) - in english waxing and waning. Might be useful ?

 

[skip.knox]

I rather like there's a phase of the moon known as the first croissant, which is always the best croissant of the day! Otherwise those phases map pretty much exactly to English.

I can't shake the feeling that the standardization I see -- gibbous, waning, full, new, etc., which appear in many languages--is somehow modern. That if I could push back into, say, early medieval literature, I might find something less strictly descriptive and more evocative. Or terms from other cultures. Pretty much any time and place where the rigors of Modern Science had not penetrated. I also have the notion that any Google search is, by the very nature of the algorithm, going to bury such quirky gems under a landslide of normative terms and explanations.

 

[pmmg]

Oddly, I just had to address the phases of the moon in my own story, but I was free to make up terms.

Not encountered any hidden places on the internet to shed more light on this...Before I came across the terms waning and waxing, it was just quarter moon, and three quarter moon. I suspect that was common in many time periods. Possibly even brightening and darkening moons, for which I could look up some word entomology and come up with terms. Otherwise....google searches are not helping.

 

[skip.knox]

Yeah, that quarter and three-quarter feels modern. It's just too precise and enumerated. I very much like brightening and darkening, for which there are the terms waxing and waning, and those are serviceable if not very colorful.

As an illustration of what I meant before, I just did a search on historical terms for phases of the moon, and of course all the top-level hits were about *modern* terms. What's wrong with you, Google? Just don't like history?

But I got sly. I clicked way down into the results. Page 10. Page 13. And found at least scraps. Tolkien, of course, can be relied upon in this as in so much else.
Moon - Tolkien Gateway

And one can be more sly by using quote marks, thus: "historical terms" for "phases of the moon". This yields other results. It's a rabbit hole, but a damn twisty one.

For my elves, I think I'm going to go with them thinking about conditions, rather than phases, of the moon. I haven't assigned any terms yet, but I like thinking about the moon as a spirit or entity or personage, rather than as an orbiting ball. My orcs worship the Sun, so the Moon will have to be associated with negative things, somehow. And I have yet to address the topic for dwarves. Humans, of course, will continue to use their own terms.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

My orcs worship the Sun, so the Moon will have to be associated with negative things, somehow.

Do your orcs have a worldview based on duality? As in, there's good and evil, God and the devil (or whatever their religious equivalent is), dark and light, but nothing in between.

In that kind of worldview, yes, one would be associated with positive things and the other with negative things. But most sun worshipping cultures that have existed were not that dualistic. Moon would have some different qualities from Sun, and be of secondary importance to the religion, but it doesn't automatically follow that if one is good the other is evil.

Where in the world do your orcs come from, primarily? If it's somewhere in the Mediterranean or a similar climate, sun worship makes sense. Farther north, closer to the arctic, the sun would probably still be a deity, but the moon would take on more importance. There would be a lot of the moon seen on those endless winter nights.

 

[Aldarion]

Yeah, that quarter and three-quarter feels modern. It's just too precise and enumerated. I very much like brightening and darkening, for which there are the terms waxing and waning, and those are serviceable if not very colorful.

As an illustration of what I meant before, I just did a search on historical terms for phases of the moon, and of course all the top-level hits were about *modern* terms. What's wrong with you, Google? Just don't like history?

But I got sly. I clicked way down into the results. Page 10. Page 13. And found at least scraps. Tolkien, of course, can be relied upon in this as in so much else.
Moon - Tolkien Gateway

And one can be more sly by using quote marks, thus: "historical terms" for "phases of the moon". This yields other results. It's a rabbit hole, but a damn twisty one.

For my elves, I think I'm going to go with them thinking about conditions, rather than phases, of the moon. I haven't assigned any terms yet, but I like thinking about the moon as a spirit or entity or personage, rather than as an orbiting ball. My orcs worship the Sun, so the Moon will have to be associated with negative things, somehow. And I have yet to address the topic for dwarves. Humans, of course, will continue to use their own terms.

Eh, I don't think standardization is necessarily modern. Most names are descriptive, which means that most languages and populations will have very similar names for same phenomena. For example, look at how many rivers in the world are named simply "River" in various languages (e.g. Jadro near Split is locally called Rječina, which is basically "river" in Croatian).

So naming moon phases "quarter moon" etc. is actually fairly natural.

 

[skip.knox]

Do your orcs have a worldview based on duality?

Yes. They are monotheists. There is definitely good and evil, light and darkness.

Where in the world do your orcs come from, primarily?

From the Second World (hollow earth), which is where all other magical peoples come from, though they emerged at different times and places. Sun and moon and sky were new phenomena for each, and each reacted in a different way. Not all formed religions out of that, but the orcs did.

I'm having fun with my orcs. I've let them be akin to real-Earth barbarian invaders of the Empire in that they closely imitate what they found. The orcs are ruled by an emperor. But it's a caesaro-papist rule in that there are two rulers, one religious and one lay. They achieve a balance of power that the medieval Empire never could. At least for a few centuries. Anyway, I then map a sun-worshipping monotheism (think Mithraism) onto that, and adopt in shamanism. All orc magic is prayer magic and firmly in the hands of the shamans, the priesthood. Warriors serve the Sun. All other peoples are to worship the Sun or else be eliminated--killed or driven out. Orcs are fine with letting other peoples into their Empire, but those peoples absolutely must follow the Sun.

This whole approach is abhorrent to the polytheism of humans. It's repellant to dwarves and elves, but for other reasons. That's more or less the relationship grid, with lots of details to work out whenever needed for a particular story.

 

[skip.knox]

So naming moon phases "quarter moon" etc. is actually fairly natural.

You may well be right. But I still have this little itch that I try to scratch once in a while. Meantime, I just make stuff up.

 

[Rosemary Tea]

Yes. They are monotheists. There is definitely good and evil, light and darkness.

If they're strict monotheists, and they worship the sun, then they would have to worship the sun exclusively. There can't be any other deities. The moon would be, at most, a non-deified subordinate to the sun. Perhaps its role would be similar to Mary's in Protestantism: she isn't divine, even if she is the mother of the Son of God, just a saint. But she isn't associated with negative things either.

If they're only as monotheistic as Catholics (God being the only recognized god but saints being prayable to, and Mary a recognized divine intercessor), there's room for the moon to be more deified. But that wouldn't necessarily make it the evil one.