marginalized characters that were added just to help get a book published

[Miles Lacey]

I have non-white characters because my WIP is set on a tropical island and I happen to find creating cultures based on those of southeast Asia and the Polynesian islands (which are much closer to home than Europe and North America) more interesting than those based on European cultures.

As for "marginalised groups"? I chose to create a predominately bisexual society because I felt it would be a challenge to see how that could potentially reshape even the very notion of what the traditional family, marriage and relationships could be. The fact I'm openly bisexual is completely irrelevant to my decision to create a bisexual society.

Create the characters that best suit your story but remember that, sometimes, a person belonging to a marginalised group might be a better fit for your story than you may realise. But that's your judgment call, folks.

 

[AlexS]

Hi,

I just read a novel that centered around family relationships and Chinese beliefs in spirits and ghosts. I finished reading it, and thought to myself "Hang on! Why is the protagonist lesbian? " Her lover only exists in the book in a few 3 line phone calls and some text messages. She doesn't participate in anything that happens- in fact, she doesn't even know what's going on. It's presented as a framework for the story, but doesn't seems necessary at all. The plot, relationships and character development would all be fine if every mention of her lover was deleted. (I'm not being entirely fair to the novel, but...)

I'm guessing that the author added this angle in order to get attention from agents and publishers. Have you gotten such an impression from books you've read? Do you do the same? Should I?

Note, my next work involves Michelangelo as the main character. He was what we called today homosexual, so I am 'off the hook' for this one.

Karlin

In the 1985 blockbuster film 'Back to the Future', why is the protagonist straight? His girlfriend only exists in one scene. She doesn't participate in anything that happens - in fact she doesn't even know what's going on. It's presented as a framework for the story, but doesn't seem necessary at all. The plot, relationships and character development would be the same if the protagonist was gay and his girlfriend would be a boyfriend, or if she not existed at all.

I'm guessing that the screenwriter added the 'straight' angle in order to get attention from agents and publishers.

 

[Zombified Spider]

In the 1985 blockbuster film 'Back to the Future', why is the protagonist straight? His girlfriend only exists in one scene. She doesn't participate in anything that happens - in fact she doesn't even know what's going on. It's presented as a framework for the story, but doesn't seem necessary at all. The plot, relationships and character development would be the same if the protagonist was gay and his girlfriend would be a boyfriend, or if she not existed at all.

I'm guessing that the screenwriter added the 'straight' angle in order to get attention from agents and publishers.

If you've watched 'Back to the Future', you would also know that Marty, the main character, goes into the past by mistake to a time WHEN HIS GIRLFRIEND ISN'T EVEN ALIVE, therefore not making her relevant to the plot. However, if you watch 'Back to the Future 2', you would know that she is relevant to the plot because she goes with Marty to the future.
If you have a girlfriend and go on a quest without her, she wouldn't be relevant to the plot because she isn't there; however, if you go on a quest with said girlfriend, she is very relevant because she's there for every single moment of the entire quest. If the main character is a lesbian and has a girlfriend, the romance shouldn't feel forced and like a money grab. The point here is that the romance feels forced and unnatural. In a constantly changing and more diverse world with the threat of being canceled, writers are adding sexuality as an afterthought and not tying it into who the character is and how they act. For example, in the ACOTAR series (one I vehemently hate), Feyre is a painter; this feels like it was tacked on as a talent to make her seem more diverse and talented and not like the flat character she is.

 

[Prince of Spires]

If you've watched 'Back to the Future', you would also know that Marty, the main character, goes into the past by mistake to a time WHEN HIS GIRLFRIEND ISN'T EVEN ALIVE, therefore not making her relevant to the plot.
...
If you have a girlfriend and go on a quest without her, she wouldn't be relevant to the plot because she isn't there;

I feel like you missed the point of AlexS post. Which was that he described the exact same situation as described in the original post, namely that the protagonist had a relationship which isn't relevant to the story and only shows up in 1 scene at the start and 1 at the end. And the only difference was that in one it was a straight relationship and in the other the person was a lesbian.

And one got remarked on as being a token character while the other doesn't even raise an eyebrow.

It was simply pointing out that double standard. Not that is was bad to have a character have a relationship which doesn't impact the rest of the story.

 

[Zombified Spider]

I feel like you missed the point of AlexS post. Which was that he described the exact same situation as described in the original post, namely that the protagonist had a relationship which isn't relevant to the story and only shows up in 1 scene at the start and 1 at the end. And the only difference was that in one it was a straight relationship and in the other the person was a lesbian.

And one got remarked on as being a token character while the other doesn't even raise an eyebrow.

It was simply pointing out that double standard. Not that is was bad to have a character have a relationship which doesn't impact the rest of the story.

Do we even know what book OP was even talking about?

 

[Queshire]

Do we even know what book OP was even talking about?

Yes we do.

Black Water Sister. It starts out with her grandma's ghost mentioning that she's lesbian, but then novel goes on the deal with other things, mostly possession by gods and spirits.

 

[The Dark One]

Without having read through the whole thread, I'm going to offer a somewhat different perspective...

As a straight, white male it is difficult for me to get into the heads of other cultures/subcultures unless by observation and imagination. That's what we do as authors all the time, it's just that there are socio-political minefields aplenty where particular cultures/subcultures are concerned and we run the risk of being accused of cultural appropriation or tokenism or worse. At the same time, we get accused of straight white male monoculturism if there are insufficient diverse and well drawn females in our stories.

While sensitive to the issues, I've never much cared about where my novels take me and have been happy to wade in and have a go - not least as an experiment in expanding my writing palette. One of my current WIPs features a lesbian fabliau (one of the characters is a MC) and I very much enjoy writing it. It's certainly a challenge.

I do have a number of lesbian friends - all of whom are already fans of my work - and all are very keen to beta read the story when it's ready. No doubt I shall find their comments enlightening.

 

[Miles Lacey]

It may seem as if the author of Black Water Sister has made the main character lesbian so she can sell a few extra books but that isn't the case. The author of the book is Malaysian and her intended audience are people from southeast Asia, in particular Malaysia.

Considering that being LGBT+ is a crime in much of southeast Asia and that books that have LGBT+ themes or characters are usually banned it's little surprise the author of Black Water Sister has been cautious about being too open about her main character's sexuality.

Many people often fail to comprehend the very real and serious consequences that many writers and their publishers, families, friends and colleagues might face when they write about certain things, such as anything to do with LGBT+ issues.

Fantasy is often used in much of Asia to enable people to talk about things that would usually be banned or censored. Try to remember this when you're reading books from non-Western countries or by non-Western authors..

 

[Karlin]

It may seem as if the author of Black Water Sister has made the main character lesbian so she can sell a few extra books but that isn't the case. The author of the book is Malaysian and her intended audience are people from southeast Asia, in particular Malaysia.

Considering that being LGBT+ is a crime in much of southeast Asia and that books that have LGBT+ themes or characters are usually banned it's little surprise the author of Black Water Sister has been cautious about being too open about her main character's sexuality.

Many people often fail to comprehend the very real and serious consequences that many writers and their publishers, families, friends and colleagues might face when they write about certain things, such as anything to do with LGBT+ issues.

Fantasy is often used in much of Asia to enable people to talk about things that would usually be banned or censored. Try to remember this when you're reading books from non-Western countries or by non-Western authors..

Um, no.

The author lives in the UK, and writes in English. I am not convinced that "her intended audience are people from southeast Asia, in particular Malaysia". The author is completely open abouit her main character being lesbian.

My comment was that the character's sexuality wasn't relevant to the story, and struck me as 'tacked on' in order to help sell the book.

 

[Mad Swede]

The author lives in the UK, and writes in English. I am not convinced that "her intended audience are people from southeast Asia, in particular Malaysia". The author is completely open abouit her main character being lesbian.

And it doesn't occur to you that there may be a reason for a Malaysian to live in the UK and write a book with a lesbian character like that?

Miles Lacey is quite right, being seen to express a positive view of LGBT+ people (in any form, be that a book, in an e-mail or in a chat group) in a country like Malaysia can be enough to land you and your friends and family in a lot of trouble. At best you get fined, at worst...

The same is true in many other countries outside the Western world. The consequences for LGBT+ people can be horrific, and there are some things I'd really rather not have seen when serving on some UN missions. It is Western cultural arrogance at its worst to assume that everyone else in the world shares our values and accepts our way of seeing things, and hence that non-Western authors can write books with LGBT+ characters without giving thought to the potential personal consequences.

 

[Karlin]

And it doesn't occur to you that there may be a reason for a Malaysian to live in the UK and write a book with a lesbian character like that?

Miles Lacey is quite right, being seen to express a positive view of LGBT+ people (in any form, be that a book, in an e-mail or in a chat group) in a country like Malaysia can be enough to land you and your friends and family in a lot of trouble. At best you get fined, at worst...

The same is true in many other countries outside the Western world. The consequences for LGBT+ people can be horrific, and there are some things I'd really rather not have seen when serving on some UN missions. It is Western cultural arrogance at its worst to assume that everyone else in the world shares our values and accepts our way of seeing things, and hence that non-Western authors can write books with LGBT+ characters without giving thought to the potential personal consequences.

This is all true, but the book was
1. Written in the UK
2. In English
3. Does not hide the Lesbian nature of the character at all. It is stated very clearly.

Edit: I apologize to myself. I had stated (post#24) that I was bowing out of this discussion. I should have stuck to it, and will do my best to in the future.

I can only ask that you read about the author and the book before making assumptions.

 

[Queshire]

This is all true, but the book was
1. Written in the UK
2. In English
3. Does not hide the Lesbian nature of the character at all. It is stated very clearly.

Edit: I apologize to myself. I had stated (post#24) that I was bowing out of this discussion. I should have stuck to it, and will do my best to in the future.

I can only ask that you read about the author and the book before making assumptions.

By a person who, from a google search, was born & raised in Malaysia and later moved to the UK.

 

[Miles Lacey]

This is all true, but the book was
1. Written in the UK
2. In English
3. Does not hide the Lesbian nature of the character at all. It is stated very clearly.

Edit: I apologize to myself. I had stated (post#24) that I was bowing out of this discussion. I should have stuck to it, and will do my best to in the future.

I can only ask that you read about the author and the book before making assumptions.

Zen Cho is based in Birmingham in the United Kingdom but the book was published in the United States. It was written in English except for the dialogue which was written in Manglish. If she wanted to boost her sales having a glossary for the Manglish words would've achieved the same result.

Speaking of Manglish, I seriously doubt her book was primarily for a Western readership precisely because it used Manglish without a glossary. Indeed the book did very well in Singapore where Manglish is widely understood. Obviously, because of the censorship in Malaysia it would be hard to tell how well her book was received there.

Even if Zen Cho does live in Birmingham the Malaysian authorities can still cause her grief. They could deny her access to Malaysia, strip her of her nationality (cìtizenship) or harass her family back in Malaysia. Thus, presenting the character's sexuality the way Zen Cho does make sense from a non-commercial perspective. This is a common tactic used by many countries dealing with people who might be seen as problematic.

 

[minta]

I have noticed that too sometimes. It can feel forced if it doesn’t serve the story. Representation is great but it works best when it is meaningful naturally into the plot or character development.

 

[SamazonE]

I have noticed that too sometimes. It can feel forced if it doesn’t serve the story. Representation is great but it works best when it is meaningful naturally into the plot or character development.

That reminds me of Disney. There seem to be a whitewash on media, that says big is best, but when you get down to it the same dark story.