I need some serious help with my martial arts fantasy story

[WonderingSword5]

Well, again, I suggest reading/watching existing materials. You'll have to be either really or deliberately bad at it to offend most of your audience, and sterotypes won't loose you readers unless they're the sneering sort. There's 150 years of good entertainment here to get inspired by and you should do fine with what you have so far.

But I asked real martial artists on a website and they told me no matter how much research I do, if I never experienced martial art competitions and the rules, then I can't write about it

 

[Solusandra]

But I asked real martial artists on a website and they told me no matter how much research I do, if I never experienced martial art competitions and the rules, then I can't write about it

Having been on both sides of that, I can tell you it doesn't matter. MOST WRITERS create great entertainment about things they only understand as a spectator or researcher. Being experienced in a thing is a good bonus, but hardly necessary if your writing, spectating and research are thoughtful. I guarantee you, none of the martial artists you've talked to have done the things found in martial fantasy entertainment.

Edit: by the same token, it doesn't matter how experienced you are as a subject matter expert if your writing is ill-considered or sloppy.

 

[Solusandra]

But I asked real martial artists on a website and they told me no matter how much research I do, if I never experienced martial art competitions and the rules, then I can't write about it

A bit of research for you. Mirror neuron - Wikipedia

TLDR, Mirror neurons are a phenomenon related to empathy wherein the observer experiences a shadow of the thing they see another person do or feel. The same nerves and pathways light up in the observer as the doer, if to a lesser intensity.

Empathy being the ability to understand someone who's life you never lived through observing them, this translates to sports as well, explaining why fans feel such exhilaration at their team pulling off some amazing feat that they could and have never done as if they were actually involved, and why we form social bonds with actors in soap opera and TV/youtube personalities who we've never met.

You didn't experience it and its not reciprocal on the other side... but your brain is convinced you did and it is.

 

[Nighty_Knight]

But in Cobra Kai, Johnny and Daniel are both over 50 and can take on guys who they are twice the age of, no problem.

Or is that due to just being fiction?

A big factor with them is they aren't taking on world class fighters. They have mostly been fighting regular guys in bars, and each other. They aren't taking on world class competition in the show. I mean, Mike Tyson is in his 50s, he isn't going to be able to win any world championships in boxing at his age and he started to slow down and lose by the time he was in his early 40s. But he can still certainly beat guys in their 20s and 30s who are regular boxers. I mean, even when he is 70 he would still crush me.

 

[Nighty_Knight]

But I asked real martial artists on a website and they told me no matter how much research I do, if I never experienced martial art competitions and the rules, then I can't write about it

That’s not true. I have done martial arts for most of my life. Just make sure you do your research and ask questions and you will do fine. Just remember, if you are unsure about something, ask a few different people from different perspectives. Different people tend to have different experiences and it helps to broaden what you know.

 

[WonderingSword5]

Being experienced in a thing is a good bonus, but hardly necessary if your writing, spectating and research are thoughtful. I guarantee you, none of the martial artists you've talked to have done the things found in martial fantasy entertainment.

So as long as I do my research very well, even without the hands on experience, i can do this properly? And it seems like a lot of martial artists get offended when I mention adding the fantasy stuff

doesn't matter how experienced you are as a subject matter expert if your writing is ill-considered or sloppy.

I'll ask as many martial artists as I can on the internet because I'd never want to make that mistake. I hope I don't

 

[WonderingSword5]

Empathy being the ability to understand someone who's life you never lived through observing them, this translates to sports as well, explaining why fans feel such exhilaration at their team pulling off some amazing feat that they could and have never done as if they were actually involved, and why we form social bonds with actors in soap opera and TV/youtube personalities who we've never met.

You didn't experience it and its not reciprocal on the other side... but your brain is convinced you did and it is.

So even though I had some minor experiences with martial arts as a kid, can that still help with me, when creating my storyline that has a martial arts tournament, even though I didn't experience it myself? But if I make it up as a fictional tournament, like they did in Karate Kid/Cobra Kai, I should have no problem? Being that their tournament isn't realistic by no means.

 

[WonderingSword5]

big factor with them is they aren't taking on world class fighters. They have mostly been fighting regular guys in bars, and each other.

I see now. It makes more sense. They're taking on mostly street thugs, rather than pro fighters, but wouldn't it still be hard at their age to be taking on multiple younger, stronger, bigger people?

if you are unsure about something, ask a few different people from different perspectives. Different people tend to have different experiences and it helps to broaden what you know.

Thank you. I'm definitely going to. Can you tell me anything you know about martial arts? The styles, like anything about kung fu tournaments, if I say it took place in the 90's?

 

[Solusandra]

So as long as I do my research very well, even without the hands on experience, i can do this properly? And it seems like a lot of martial artists get offended when I mention adding the fantasy stuff

Did you not initially tell them you were writing a martial fantasy novel, like Bullet-Proof Monk, Ranma 1/2 or Iron Fist?

So even though I had some minor experiences with martial arts as a kid, can that still help with me, when creating my storyline that has a martial arts tournament, even though I didn't experience it myself?

yes.

But if I make it up as a fictional tournament, like they did in Karate Kid/Cobra Kai, I should have no problem? Being that their tournament isn't realistic by no means.

Also yes.

You can also get good experience by recorded tournaments (or going to live events) though keep in mind that WWE and some of the others are staged theater productions more than they are legit fights. Still, WWE being theater is good for a writing a plot the MC campaigns against. Or for. Fixed fights are a common plot point in martial arts entertainment for a reason after all.

 

[Nighty_Knight]

I see now. It makes more sense. They're taking on mostly street thugs, rather than pro fighters, but wouldn't it still be hard at their age to be taking on multiple younger, stronger, bigger people?



Thank you. I'm definitely going to. Can you tell me anything you know about martial arts? The styles, like anything about kung fu tournaments, if I say it took place in the 90's?

I don’t honestly know much about Kung fu tournaments. I practiced a little gunshu in the past few years but never compete. I know a bit about different styles, a bit about what makes many of them more effective than others and their practicality.

 

[WonderingSword5]

Did you not initially tell them you were writing a martial fantasy novel

Yes, I mentioned some of this to them, that it is just fantasy. they still told me that if I am writing something that I still don;t have enough experience in, I would get called out and it would be painfully obvious I don't know enough about the martial arts and the rules, even if just fantasy and then they laughed it off, which felt insulting.

You can also get good experience by recorded tournaments (or going to live events) though keep in mind that WWE and some of the others are staged theater productions more than they are legit fights. Still, WWE being theater is good for a writing a plot the MC campaigns against. Or for. Fixed fights are a common plot point in martial arts entertainment for a reason after all.

There are not many by me and most have been limited due to quarantining. I don't know if WWE would fit in my story's setting

 

[WonderingSword5]

I don’t honestly know much about Kung fu tournaments. I practiced a little gunshu in the past few years but never compete. I know a bit about different styles, a bit about what makes many of them more effective than others and their practicality

Yes! Can you help me with anything? I found nothing on kung fu tournaments, especially going back 20 something years ago. But your knowledge seems like it would help and maybe I can figure out what style of kung fu tournament could have existed back then, or at least something I can make believable that existed

And if you know other styles, that's fine too. The MC back in his youth would of had a pretty practical martial art style that was used when he was in the tournament as a kid/teen. His story as an adult, he would of evolved doing other more practical styles anyway, eventually.

 

[WonderingSword5]

This is what the tournament would have been like with the teens that competed in it.

This isn't too violent is it? And this was a tournament that was public to the crowd in the series, not underground, so why can't I make it similar to this?

 

[Solusandra]

This isn't too violent is it?

Nah, it's a little tame really. Also alot more jumping that usually happens in irl tournaments. Mostly because when people do the flying kick attacks, they very often get punched or kicked out of the air for double damage.

they still told me that if I am writing something that I still don;t have enough experience in, I would get called out and it would be painfully obvious I don't know enough about the martial arts and the rules,

Then they're being salty elitists.
What they're referring too does happen, with lazy writers; they've got a reason to be wary... but it's not a rule, letalone a hard rule. Do your research, watch a bunch of tournaments on livestream (though attendance IS better) or movie if you must, and be thoughtful when you write. Accomplish that, and you'll be fine.

 

[WonderingSword5]

Nah, it's a little tame really. Also alot more jumping that usually happens in irl tournaments. Mostly because when people do the flying kick attacks, they very often get punched or kicked out of the air for double damage.

So if I made my tournament the MC did in his youth the exact same way like this, but a kung fu version of it instead would be alright?

Do your research, watch a bunch of tournaments on livestream (though attendance IS better) or movie if you must, and be thoughtful when you write. Accomplish that, and you'll be fine.

That will be a challenge as covid changed everything, there are not many clubs near me and the money would still be an issue either way

And it's hard finding footage of kids/teens fighting.

 

[Solusandra]

And it's hard finding footage of kids/teens fighting.

Is it? 30 seconds on google got me 2.5 hours of Kids MMA tournament.It's not even locked behind pay per view.

Want a specific style?

That will be a challenge as covid changed everything, there are not many clubs near me and the money would still be an issue either way

Where do you live? Don't answer if you're uncomfortable, but there's a lot of places who've gotten tired of locking up for a disease with less than a tenth of a percent death rate. 3% if you're a prime target with multiple comorbidity's.

So if I made my tournament the MC did in his youth the exact same way like this, but a kung fu version of it instead would be alright?

Yeah. Though that six minute clip cut out an awful lot. I suppose it depends on whether you wanna get wordy and technical, or gloss over the fighting in favor of the plot.

 

[WonderingSword5]

Want a specific style?

Yes, kung fu to be exact. Was it like this fight in the video and something believable with kids set in the 90's-early 2000's?

but there's a lot of places who've gotten tired of locking up for a disease

I'll have to check, but last I remembered most were closed and there aren't many around here. Plus they'd still be expensive to join

I suppose it depends on whether you wanna get wordy and technical, or gloss over the fighting in favor of the plot.

Can both work?

 

[Solusandra]

I'll have to check, but last I remembered most were closed and there aren't many around here. Plus they'd still be expensive to join

no more expensive than any other sports club or sport watcher club. If there isn't anything in your area, there's a number of payperview channels in english. Far more if you're getting asian language channel. If you don't wanna pay, the Sanda kung fu & wushu tournament is free on youtube.

Yes, kung fu to be exact. Was it like this fight in the video and something believable with kids set in the 90's-early 2000's?

Can both work?

Yes, of course you can do both. Many tend to focus though. If you feel you can write it, go for it.

 

[WonderingSword5]

If you don't wanna pay, the Sanda kung fu & wushu tournament is free on youtube.

This I can do. In the beginning of the MC's backstory, he would of done a competition like this. Then when he was older he would of gotten into more modern combat sports like mma, which I think I can easily research and it's already a mixed hybrid style.

Those videos are great examples,but were sanda matches like this back in the 90's, with kids and teens competing? I didn't see any

Yes, of course you can do both. Many tend to focus though. If you feel you can write it, go for it.

I will try!

 

[Michael Terrance]

I've been working on this idea for a very long time and I can't seem to figure out what would make this more interesting. It's about a man who had trained in his past youth back in the mid 90's after being bullied from other kids at school and being shy most his life, his parents (or just the mother as I was going to say he had an abusive step dad and never met his real father) sent him to take kung fu classes, which was led by an instructor who was also a military vet who had a crazy attitude and was abusive to the MC and other students as well. The instructor would have served during the 80's and up until the early 90's. Reason he's a kung fu instructor is because the head teacher of the chain school was a head kung fu sifu teacher who hired the military instructor to run one school location near the MC. The military vet had also trained a little bit under the sifu(head kung fu teacher) then he helped him open up his own school location. As the MC gets into his teens he becomes more self confident which is falsely hidden by the military martial art vet trainer's true intentions. The MC does well for the school, winning matches, promoting the school, making him feel almost invincible and even bullies over the years have backed off and some have began to fear the MC, but the abuse catches up to the MC and the manipulation the martial arts school and bad vet teacher put on him, even with making the school sell more by using the MC for promotions, and gaining the attention of more women to the school for the bad instructors to get a hold of. The MC one day loses his match, (early 2000's-late 90's perhaps?) then the military vet teacher who ran the school shows his true colors and physically abuses and degrades the MC for his loss and blaming the MC for the schools failure and reputation. MC goes into a life of misery after realizing his training and teacher he was deceived by. He ends up not getting a martial arts scholarship and can't handle any minimal wage job and gets treated badly by everyone, becoming homeless and a reckless mess. Years later as an adult, he witnesses an attack on the street of some punks harassing a few victims. MC's instincts kick in and he rescues them, it hits the news and some random old good master who was skilled in various forms of Japanese martial arts, hears of this and he decides to help the MC and train him, helping the MC finally after all these years achieve the gaol of becoming an incredible martial artist, the MC one day becoming a teacher himself, even proving that his old style works in an MMA match, which brings back the attention of the bad military vet teacher and the other bad instructors from his past return with he MC rising they want to get involved so the vet pretends to return and apologize and be the MC's friend, secretly looking to take over the MC's newly established dojo and it all goes from there.

First what does everyone think of this whole setup? Any improvements needed?

And for the fantasy aspect, the MC who had now trained with the new master, he would of unlocked something spiritual in the MC which is connected to animals spirits so the MC when gaining better skills or the right path he sees a visual of a lion or tiger that lets him know he's doing well, and various other animals and mythical creatures in his vision. It;s like a supernatural power instilled in him. How does this all sound?

And since I had these ideas before the pandemic, how do I set the time frame? If the MC is an adult say in the 2030's martial arts would need a special rule set? Or set it before the pandemic?

Any help on this I would appreciate, I've been trying to fix it for so long now

I am happy to give you some suggestions. First, my background, so you can judge for yourself whether to take my suggestions.
I am 53 years old and have done martial arts most of my life. I have studied both Chinese and Japanese history and cultures (and languages). I did a Bachelor's degree in "Asian Studies" (greater focus on Japan than China, but studied both), before I went on to Law School.
When I was young, and through my teens, I studied mainly Shotokan Karate (Japanese), a little bit of Arnis (Philippines), and a brief introduction to Judo (Japanese). Throughout the latter half of the 90s I studied mainly Aikido (Japanese) and Wing Chun (Chinese). I have continued with Aikido and helped to run a dojo and teach for about 10 years. I have also studied a bit of Iaido (Japanese) in the last few years. As a fairly academically inclined person and avid martial artist, as you might imagine, I am reasonably well read on the topic of martial arts, but, admittedly, more on Aikido than anything else in the last 30 years. I also do not claim to be any sort of expert. There are many out there with more knowledge on any given aspect of the martial arts world than me.

So, my thoughts:
1) If you are planning to have your character switch between a Chinese style and a Japanese style, AND you want to have them unlock some animal-related spiritual power, you might consider starting with a Japanese style, then switching to a Chinese style. Lots of Chinese styles are explicitly based on animal-type movements or characteristics. This is less the case in Japanese martial arts. Examples are Shaolin 5 Animals Style, and the various styles that take a specific part of that and are based on one or 2 of the animals (Hung-Gar takes elements of 5 animals, but is mostly associated with Crane and Tiger, for example).

2) Timeframe: If your MC grew up and trained in the 90s, and "present day" in your story is in the 2030s, your MC will be at least in their late 40s - early 50s, and the ex-military sifu will presumably be a fair bit older than that, since they've already completed their service and retired from teh military by the 90s.

3) As for the spiritual aspects, martial arts in China are usually most associated with Taoism (pronounced like "Dow-ism"), and in Japan, they are most associated with Zen, which is a school of Buddhism that historically borrows from Taoism. The two have similarities, but are not the same.

Finally, if you are writing about Chinese and Japanese martial systems and the "internal" arts, I presume you are aware, for example, that "Chi" (or "Qi") is the Chinese term and "Ki" is the Japanese term, but they are the same thing and are represented by the same character (although there are traditional and simplified versions of that character in both countries).

If you would like to send specific questions, I will do my best to answer them or point you towards resources to help.