As vs. And

[BWFoster78]

I received a comment on one of the sections I wrote. The sentence in question:

Leaves brushed his hair, and he lowered his head.

The comment:

Wouldn't it be better if you reversed that sentence? "He lowered his head as leaves brushed his hair." In my mind when you use "and" its as if both things happen at the same time. The rewrite shows a response to a cause.

In my opinion, "and" does not imply that the actions happen at once but rather sequentially. As a matter of style, I tend not to use "as" much.

What are your thoughts on "and" versus "as?"

Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[Christopher Wright]

I agree that using "and" is sequential. However, the second version (with as) reads better to me. It's faster--the comma puts a speed bump in the middle of the first sentence.

But I suppose it depends on the whole context (which I haven't read yet). The second one works better if it's an automatic reaction to the leaves that he's not thinking about. The first might work better if it's a deliberate reaction (i.e., he's lost in thought about something, the leaves interrupt his train of thought, he adjusts accordingly).

 

[BWFoster78]

I agree that using "and" is sequential. However, the second version (with as) reads better to me. It's faster--the comma puts a speed bump in the middle of the first sentence.

But I suppose it depends on the whole context (which I haven't read yet). The second one works better if it's an automatic reaction to the leaves that he's not thinking about. The first might work better if it's a deliberate reaction (i.e., he's lost in thought about something, the leaves interrupt his train of thought, he adjusts accordingly).

It seems to me that "and" disappears easier than "as." Maybe it's a taste thing for me, but I don't seem to use "as" much at all.

I also don't mind the "speed bump" in the middle marking the two distinct actions.

 

[ArielFingolfin]

Where do you want the focus to be? If you want it to be the action of lowering his head use the second sentence, or if you want the stress to be on the leaves (scene setting/imagery/background/blah, blah, blah), go with the first sentence.

Although that doesn't really answer the and/as question, does it?

 

[Penpilot]

I'm willing to be smacked down and told I'm wrong, but my interpretation is like yours, 'And' is sequential. I use 'As' like things are happening at the same time.

But I also agree the revised sentence flows better. In this instance, I like 'As' because both things happen at the same time and to me it creates a nicer image in my head.

The original one to me feels like two unconnected 'things' and if 'As' isn't used, I personally wouldn't use the 'And' at all. The 'And' makes a connection that doesn't feel natural to me. This is just a gut thing, so it could just be my personal weirdness.

 

[Christopher Wright]

If you want the bump, I would remove "and" and use a semicolon.

 

[BWFoster78]

Trying to get the thread back on track, here:

Maybe I shouldn't have used an example at all, and I definitely shouldn't have responded to talk about the example.

I'd still like more feedback on the use of "as" vs. "and" in general. So far, I've got one person who says that and implies actions being at the same time and as sequential and a couple of other people that say the opposite.

I've also heard a comment made at one of my writing group meetings that you should limit the use of as.

Thoughts?

 

[Penpilot]

I've been thinking, which may or may not be such a great thing. I've never really thought about why I used As and And the way I do, and the reasoning behind it. I always just gutted things out. I'm going to put an idea out there and see what everyone thinks. Warning, what I'm about to say has definite rectal origins. AND may or may not hold true once context gets involved. I'm just analysing base just on the two sentence(s) provided.

Let's looking at the two sentences 'Leaves brushed his hair.' AND 'He lowered his head.' Basically, there are three possible constructs we can put together.

1- Leaves brushed his hair. He lowered his head.
2- Leaves brushed his hair as he lowered his head. (Reversing the order here would work too, but I'm going to use this form for the sake of simplicity.)
3- Leaves brushed his hair, and he lowered his head.

To me whether you used And, As, or nothing at all depends what kind of imagery you want to convey.

For 1, the camera focuses on the leaves brushing his hair, pauses, then moves on to the lowering of the head. Each image gets its moment to be the focal point.

For 2, the camera focuses on the leaves brushing his hair and the head lowering at the same time, creating a one image that hits the mind's eye at once instead of the two distinct images of 1 that get layered.

For 3, the And forces the camera to try and focus on two things, which takes takes some of the power away from the sentences and kind of muddies the imagery.

Now, this isn't me saying never use And. I'm just speaking on this particular instance, and I'm trying to figure out why it doesn't work for me.

Let's take a similar sentence construct "Grass poked at his ankles, and he kicked a pebble." and think on that. It doesn't work for me in the same way. For me, there's some sort of disconnect. Maybe it's just context. What's the following sentence? Opinions?

Edit: Whoops. Just read BW's response. Feel free to ignore. Don't want to get too off topic.

 

[Christopher Wright]

Well I've never read a book where I thought "this writer is using 'as' way too much."

I think "and" and "as" can overlap, but ultimately are used differently. "And" is used to identify pair of things ("an apple and an orange"). In your example above, it essentially means "two things happened here," but it doesn't specifically speak to time frame, so with the comma it becomes sequential.

"As" generally implies a time frame, and the time frame is generally "simultaneous" or "overlapping," i.e. "he struggled to get out of his boots as the screen door shut behind him."

However, this can also be used to imply sequence, because when you place them in the same sentence (as in the other example) it can suggest cause and effect, or action and reaction.

It is also used to refer to relationships and comparisons, i.e. "an apple is to fruit as broccoli is to vegetables."

You could use "as" to show a sequence if the events are related, but you could use "and" just as well. If it's a list of unrelated events, though, you'd probably want to stick with "and."

 

[Devor]

Leaves brushed his hair, and he lowered his head.

He lowered his head as leaves brushed his hair.

I think there's another way of thinking about it. Here's the reason I use "as" once in a while:

"Leaves brushed his hair as he lowered his head, and their thorns pricked against his scalp until a drop of blood was added to the sweat in his hair."

"As" (and "until") is one of several tools which can help you to create a more complex sentence, which can be useful in setting a scene. Even in shorter sentences, it can help all of your sentences from looking "This happened, and this happened. This, and that."

So, who cares about this sentence, but you could improve your writing by using "as" now and then.

 

[gavintonks]

he ducked as leaves brushed his hair

 

[gavintonks]

ok I was riding home in the dark lst night and leaves brushing your head is nothing it is the stick they are attached to usually trying to poke your eyes out, so you hunker down and drop your head so nothing comes near you - I think that solves the problem