Help Me with this Dialogue/Scene, Please?

[Mindfire]

This scene is in really rough form, so if it feels goofy, that's why. It's meant to establish the main character and his friend, to contrast them and the cultures they come from, and also as a partial dig at... well you'll see. The two parties in the case being judged are supposed to seem equally foolish and absurd. If the scene comes off as being too biased toward one or the other, please let me know. Suggestions on how to improve this scene in general, especially the dialogue are enthusiastically requested. I've altered the fond to make it more reader-friendly, so it looks a lot longer than it really is. Please don't be intimidated. Thanks!

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"So what's this case you're judging?" Reuben said, following Elyas into the courtroom.
"Friend, you wouldn't believe the mess I have to deal with," Elyas said, sinking into his throne with an exhausted expression.
"I have a vivid imagination," Reuben said with a smile.
"You see this couple here?" Elyas said, indicating to the man and woman waiting to be heard. "The wife gave birth to a baby last week-"
"Cute."
"With honey-colored skin."
"Really?" Reuben raised his eyebrow. "Their skin is as dark as yours or mine. How is that possible?"
Elyas pressed a hand to his forehead. "I don't know and I don't care. But here's the ridiculous part. The husband claims the child belongs to an Elyssian lover, despite the fact that they live thirty days journey from the Elyssian border and numerous witnesses agree she never left home for more than two days at a time."
"You must be joking."
Elyas shook his head. "It gets better, friend. Not to be outdone, the wife claims he denies being the child's father so that he can divorce and marry-" Elyas sighed. "An Elyssian mistress, again despite the fact that they live thirty days away from the border and the husband has never left home for more than two days at a time."
Reuben was stunned. He'd almost forgotten what it felt like to be caught off guard. "What?"
"My thoughts exactly," Elyas said. "If you ask me, these two deserve each other."
"Elyas, why are you even hearing this case?"
"Normally an incident like this is judged by the elders of the families involved. But they referred this case to me because they- what were their words? Ah, yes. They 'have great respect for my position as Akalesh's Chosen, and defer to my immeasurable wisdom in this matter." Elyas rolled his eyes.
Reuben smirked. "Sounds to me like they're mocking you."
"You don't say. They're always sending me gifts like this, either to mock me or keep me too busy to dig up their dirt, or both."
Reuben narrowed his eyes. "You could have them punished for deliberately wasting your time."
Elyas gave him a quick sidelong glance and replied, "We don't do things that way here."
As this conversation had progressed, the husband and wife whose case was to be heard had grown increasingly fidgety. At last the wife said, "Prince Elyas, if your Benevolence would be so kind as to postpone your business with the Mako ambassador-"
"Oh, don't honey-glaze it," her husband interrupted. "It's high time we got back to business. Pronounce her guilty and get it over with."
"Me?" the wife gasped in exaggerated shock.
The husband scowled. "Yes you, adulteress!"
"How dare you. Womanizer!"
"Harlot!"
"Dust licker!"
"Enough!" Reuben growled. "Elyas has more important things to do than babysit petty, bickering idiots!"
"Just who do you think you are?" said the wife, hands indignantly on her hips.
"Mind your own business, foreigner," the husband snapped.
"His name," Elyas said with a smile, "is Reuben Mantawe, son of Seth. King of the Mako."
There was a stiff silence.
"Reuben the Lion-Slayer?" the wife squeaked.
"Reuben the Blood Wolf?" the husband whimpered.
"The same," Reuben said, crossing his arms.
"And as Prince, it is my right to request counsel from whoever I wish," Elyas said.
Reuben could tell his friend was trying desperately not to laugh.
"So, Reuben, what do you think of this case?"
"Elyas, do you really think that either of their accusations holds water?" Reuben said, flashing a smile. His time among the Mako had turned his teeth more wolflike.
"No." Elyas said flatly.
"Then throw them out."
"But this woman-"
"Shut up," said Reuben. A nearby shadow sprang to life and donned the form of gigantic black wolf. It snarled and snapped at the couple until Reuben placed his hand on its head and began to pet it. The wolf's mood softened slightly, but it regarded the couple with critical eyes. Eyes that glowed ember red, a match for Reuben's own.
At the sight of the wolf, the couple seemed to have forgotten their quarrel entirely, and were clinging to each other for dear life.
"Elyas is too polite to say what you need to hear," Reuben said, "so I will. The two of you are stuck with each other. Deal with it, or I will find you. The child is yours. Both of yours. Care for him, love him, cherish him, or I will find you. And never waste Elyas's time like this again or, believe me, I will find you. Is that clear?"
The couple nodded meekly.
"And on that note," Elyas said, "case dismissed."

 

[Jamber]

Hi Mindfire,

There's a nice flow and rhythm to this scene, and I enjoyed the read. However I'm not sure Elyas and Reuben are quite strongly enough distinguished by it, or at least not as thoroughly as you mean them to be. Their styles of speech aren't dissimilar and they agree on principles. Would it perhaps be more along the lines of your intention if you were to make Reuben 'snarl' (and other speech-descriptors) more while Elyas acts more nervous or perhaps hung up on ceremony and protocol? At the sudden appearance of the wolf, maybe Elyas can't help reacting similarly to the warring couple despite his friendship with Reuben?

I'm also left wondering if you want Elyas and/or Reuben to seem wise? Their use of threat seems more baldly authoritative than shrewd or clever. I was expecting one or the other to make some amazingly smart and incisive observation about what was underlying the couple's disagreement. It would have been enormously satisfying to have Reuben (for instance) sniff out the couple's true motivation and shame them into going meekly away, with Elyas adding the authoritative punchline. I'm not sure what this incisive observation might be but perhaps the couple are each seeking attention with authorities because they each feel the other hasn't been attentive, and a longstanding non-speaking feud has stopped them approaching each other?

These are just some stray thoughts; ignore them if they don't help.

Thanks for posting the scene, I did enjoy it,
Jennie

 

[ThinkerX]

The scene works...for characters who already know each other.

What is needed, I think, is to have them do/say things to each other that enhances their differences. Have one swear by the name of a tribal god, for example, while the other subtly mocks the very existence of said god. Have one comment on the fine wine last night, and the other say he would have much prefered ale. Work these bits into the banter, maybe by starting the scene a bit earlier.

 

[Mindfire]

Hi Mindfire,

There's a nice flow and rhythm to this scene, and I enjoyed the read. However I'm not sure Elyas and Reuben are quite strongly enough distinguished by it, or at least not as thoroughly as you mean them to be. Their styles of speech aren't dissimilar and they agree on principles. Would it perhaps be more along the lines of your intention if you were to make Reuben 'snarl' (and other speech-descriptors) more while Elyas acts more nervous or perhaps hung up on ceremony and protocol? At the sudden appearance of the wolf, maybe Elyas can't help reacting similarly to the warring couple despite his friendship with Reuben?

I'm also left wondering if you want Elyas and/or Reuben to seem wise? Their use of threat seems more baldly authoritative than shrewd or clever. I was expecting one or the other to make some amazingly smart and incisive observation about what was underlying the couple's disagreement. It would have been enormously satisfying to have Reuben (for instance) sniff out the couple's true motivation and shame them into going meekly away, with Elyas adding the authoritative punchline. I'm not sure what this incisive observation might be but perhaps the couple are each seeking attention with authorities because they each feel the other hasn't been attentive, and a longstanding non-speaking feud has stopped them approaching each other?

These are just some stray thoughts; ignore them if they don't help.

Thanks for posting the scene, I did enjoy it,
Jennie

Elyas is wise. Reuben... not so much. At least not yet. That's part of his character development. Reuben is used to solving most of his problems with violence, while Elyas is a bit more cool-headed, contemplative and considers violence a last resort. And you're right about their speech patterns. The reason they sound so similar is because they're based on different parts of myself. Elyas is my more contemplative, intellectual side, and Reuben is my more forceful, aggressive side. Reuben's eagerness to resort to force is irksome to Elyas at times, while Reuben doesn't understand why Elyas allows others to (from Reuben's perspective) undermine his authority. Reuben is used to having near-absolute power, while Elyas's decisions are constantly checked and questioned by a council of elders. Elyas's approach is to do the most good he possibly can while still respecting the laws and limitations of the land. Reuben has no such regard for laws because in his culture, he is the law. Their characters are a clash of lawful vs. chaotic good in a sense.

The way I'm trying to portray their relationship is kind of like older brother (Elyas) and younger brother (Reuben). And thanks for that observation. I do think I'll write it in. But it sounds more like something Elyas would say, being the wiser one.

 

[T.Allen.Smith]

I agree with the comment above that pointed out the minimal distinction between characters. They both talk too much alike... speak in similar tones and wordings, etc.

Another problem I see, lies in the dialogue itself. Friends that know each other well don't need to communicate certain things. In fact, there is a decent amount of dialogue that I felt unneccesary. For example:

"With honey-colored skin."
"Really?" Reuben raised his eyebrow. "Their skin is as dark as yours or mine. How is that possible?"

Would someone really say "Their skin is as dark as yours or mine." when they each can clearly see the color differences between their skin and the couple's? This should be understood, not something that needs clarification through conversation. It's almost as if you're trying to highlight this point for the reader. The reader is smart. Don't spoon feed information.

If you can clean up these unrealistic sections of speech and create a greater feeling of distinction between the two MCs then I think the scene would read much better.

 

[BWFoster78]

Reuben said, following Elyas into the courtroom.

I know that I have a lot of pet peeves, so it diminishes the impact for me to say that this is one of them. It's hard for me to adequately convey just how much I hate this.

The quotation marks tell us that someone is speaking, making "said" redundant. If you have a beat, please, please, eliminate the speech tag!

Rueben followed Elyas into the courtroom.

But here's the ridiculous part.

Personally, I don't care for introductory sentences like this one. I think his disdain is shown in the word choices he uses to describe the situation, so this sentence is kinda superfluous.

"Elyas, why are you even hearing this case?"

I really don't like the direct address here. Using the name, to me, inserts a degree of emotion/shock that seems inappropriate for the context. Additionally, you're already using both names a lot. Seems like you should be looking for ways to minimize usage instead of adding them where they're not needed.

As this conversation had progressed, the husband and wife whose case was to be heard had grown increasingly fidgety. At last the wife said, "Prince Elyas, if your Benevolence would be so kind as to postpone your business with the Mako ambassador-"

It would, imo, be much better to show the husband and wife fidgeting earlier in the scene. First, it would break up the he said/he said exchange. Second, it's kind of jarring to hear the disdainful way these people are referred to and not see them react. Basically, these two guys are insulting them left and right, and there's no reaction until later in the scene. The reaction, imo, should be immediate. I also don't like the attitude of the husband and wife. Unless you're trying to show that royalty is treated with extreme casualness, you need to ratchet up their respect level while showing their annoyance/anger more subtly through their mannerisms.

"Elyas is too polite to say what you need to hear," Reuben said, "so I will. The two of you are stuck with each other. Deal with it, or I will find you. The child is yours. Both of yours. Care for him, love him, cherish him, or I will find you. And never waste Elyas's time like this again or, believe me, I will find you. Is that clear?"

As another poster alluded to, this ending is kinda flat. With the build up, I expected more, some kind of wise response or maybe killing one of them or something. I think you need a more dramatic ending.

 

[Mindfire]

"Elyas, why are you even hearing this case?"

I really don't like the direct address here. Using the name, to me, inserts a degree of emotion/shock that seems inappropriate for the context. Additionally, you're already using both names a lot. Seems like you should be looking for ways to minimize usage instead of adding them where they're not needed.

The intent was for the personal address to portray sympathy and kinship. It's hard to explain. Between saying "Why are you doing this?" and "Friend, why are you doing this?", it seems the former is more critical while the latter is more sympathetic.

It would, imo, be much better to show the husband and wife fidgeting earlier in the scene. First, it would break up the he said/he said exchange. Second, it's kind of jarring to hear the disdainful way these people are referred to and not see them react. Basically, these two guys are insulting them left and right, and there's no reaction until later in the scene. The reaction, imo, should be immediate. I also don't like the attitude of the husband and wife. Unless you're trying to show that royalty is treated with extreme casualness, you need to ratchet up their respect level while showing their annoyance/anger more subtly through their mannerisms.

When I said the scene was rough, what I actually meant was it was a bunch of notes I scribbled down during class. Originally there was only the dialogue. Everything else, including the tags, was hastily edited in after the fact, and it shows. But more to the point. My original idea was that they were whispering conspiratorially, but I can see how that might not work for this scene. I'll bring the husband and wife in earlier. As for their attitude, it has to do with the culture. Prince Elyas is the ruler of Mavaria, but he's not really "royalty". The position is inherited by divine appointment, not heredity. Plus he has to share power with the Arch Council, which is made up of the highest ranking elders of the major families of Mavaria. Elyas gets treated far more casually than most monarchs. Is that appropriate? Not really, no. But Elyas is a peace-loving type and overlooks such personal slights for the most part, something that Reuben cannot fathom. But I do think the husband/wife could be toned down a bit.

As another poster alluded to, this ending is kinda flat. With the build up, I expected more, some kind of wise response or maybe killing one of them or something. I think you need a more dramatic ending.

The "punchline" was intended to be that Reuben is threatening disproportionate retribution for what is really only a minor annoyance, and now these two formerly self-important people are now crapping their... robes. Reuben's style of justice catches them off guard and it's supposed to highlight the differences between the two leaders and their cultures, which becomes super important later. If that wasn't effectively conveyed, then the scene has basically failed its mission it would seem.

But thanks for the feedback! I dare say these notebook scribbles might yet become a coherent scene.

 

[BWFoster78]

The intent was for the personal address to portray sympathy and kinship. It's hard to explain. Between saying "Why are you doing this?" and "Friend, why are you doing this?", it seems the former is more critical while the latter is more sympathetic.

I got the intent. My feedback is that it didn't feel right in this instance. Instead of establishing the relationship you wanted, it felt, to me, intrusive and unnatural.

When I said the scene was rough, what I actually meant was it was a bunch of notes I scribbled down during class.

Understood. Hopefully these thoughts will help you in your editing process.

If that wasn't effectively conveyed, then the scene has basically failed its mission it would seem.

I think that the big takeaway, unfortunately, is that the scene, in solely my opinion, didn't seem to work and that it was mainly, again solely my opinion, the ending that just didn't fulfill expectations.

Good luck with your editing; I'm sure you'll be able to whip it into shape.