Rewriting, editing... how do you get to the second draft?

[A. E. Lowan]

That's fascinating A.E.! I would love to be able to work with a team a some point. How did you all find each other and how long have you been working together?

Just as a little side note... my wife/writing partner and I met on the first day of high school at our brand new arts school, both majoring in Creative Writing, about 28 years ago and we've been collaborating in art and life ever since. Our third, and younger, partner we met right here on Scribes several years ago, as well as our alpha reader! Scribes is a wonderful community and a great place to make new friends.

 

[skip.knox]

The list is very much worthwhile. Eventually you'll get back down to the chapter and scene level, but an important step is to view the story as a single entity, noting what helps and hinders in the telling.

Toward that end, another task I've undertaken before is to make an outline of the first draft. This is because there were two versions of my story at that point. One was the story that was in my head, while the other was the story I had actually written. By outlining *every chapter* (a tedious and hours-long process that made me think Sisyphus was a whiner) I was able to see things I had not known--had not clearly remembered--were there. This was both encouraging and discouraging, but was helpful.

 

[Heliotrope]

Also recording yourself with Quicktime or something ^^^^.

So, I do what Skip mentions above, but I don't type it. I talk it. I find when I talk it outloud to myself in quicktime, like I'm trying to tell it or explain it to someone in detail, I end up finding WAY MORE gaping holes than when I type it out. The recordings usually end up with me debating with myself about a particular issue I hadn't thought to address while writing.

The same goes for character arcs. When I try to talk out a character arc and record myself I find issues with consistancy or parts that need to be fleshed out become glaringly obvious.

It also means I can do it while doing dishes or laundry, and I can listen to it when I need a reminder, either in my commute to work, or while sweeping the kitchen or whatever.

 

[Chessie2]

The list is very much worthwhile. Eventually you'll get back down to the chapter and scene level, but an important step is to view the story as a single entity, noting what helps and hinders in the telling.

Toward that end, another task I've undertaken before is to make an outline of the first draft. This is because there were two versions of my story at that point. One was the story that was in my head, while the other was the story I had actually written. By outlining *every chapter* (a tedious and hours-long process that made me think Sisyphus was a whiner) I was able to see things I had not known--had not clearly remembered--were there. This was both encouraging and discouraging, but was helpful.

It is very discouraging finding all the plot holes but such is life. Editing is the nitty gritty where I find the holes. It's exhausting but worth it. Everyone has their own process but for me, I edit with the feel of things. I know the characters and story pretty well by the time I type the end that holes and errors pop out at me. It's all retained in my head. The editor always finds a plethora of mistakes for me to fix though. *tears*

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I'm actually digging my way out of a plot hole as we talk. We have a character who goes a little bit off the rails in reaction to something plot critical, but it turns out we never got around to explaining why. lol So now I'm pulling a short chapter out of my hat, and I am not a discovery writer. *sigh*

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I'm a little different to most others here. I am a complete pantster. I can't write to a plot for love nor money. But what I can do is set out the plot points and character arcs etc as I write them. I keep a second file open when I write called data. So my last book was A Bitter Brew and I worked on it with a second file called BitterBrewData into which I kept adding all the details as I wrote. My data files are organized into sections for characters, critters, time lines etc etc, and I refer to this file constantly as I work. This lets me deal with plot issues as I write. I'd suggest your first step in looking for plot issues is if you haven't got something like this for your work, create a file like it and just set out every detail as you read through your work. You can often see plot issues far better in this sort of timeline than you can in reading the book. Unfortunately the one thing you won't be able to do if you create this sort of file after writing the book, is refer to that vital last section in the file which I call notes. Essentially all my thoughts, questions, things to check out etc.

Next in my process is the ongoing overwriting. Each day when I start writing, I always start by reading what I've written, tweaking words here and there, and most importantly keeping the whole book fresh in my mind when I finally do start writing new stuff. It means that by the time I've got the book to the end of the first draft, I've probably rewritten it fifty times or more.

After that I start with the polishing. Checking all my notes and queries in the data file off. Then hitting all the edit programs, and using a text to speech program. I set the grammar / spell checkers to eleven. Most of what they pull up is completely useless. But the value is that it makes me reread my work often line by line. You pick up some mistakes but more often a lot of things you just want to rewrite that way.

Then comes the beta readers. This is invaluable. With them I want mainly comments through the files and probably the most important comment they can make is "I don't understand". It means I may not have made things clear even though they were clear in my head. I also keep a list of their comments in my data file so I can reflect on them as I go through the rest of the process, even if I don't want to change the book initially.

After that comes the editing. Two or three rounds with my editor depending on what she finds, with the book going back and forth between us. She works initially on story development and writing, and then the spelling and grammar. There's a lot of abuse involved in this step too! She really takes no prisoners. You need someone to be brutal in my opinion.

One thing I would add. Keep copies of your file at every edit. So the draft I send to my editor would be say "edit1. What I get back from her I call edit2, and the revised version I send back to her is edit3 etc etc. That way if necessary I can go back to previous versions to check on what was changed. Also, with my data file I update this as it goes through the edit process - so if I change a plot point I make a note underneath the original plot point to say changed to ...

The very last thing I do is start formatting for the various formats etc. Putting in chapter numbers, table of contents etc.

Hope that helps.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[RavenOfSummer]

Just as a little side note... my wife/writing partner and I met on the first day of high school at our brand new arts school, both majoring in Creative Writing, about 28 years ago and we've been collaborating in art and life ever since. Our third, and younger, partner we met right here on Scribes several years ago, as well as our alpha reader! Scribes is a wonderful community and a great place to make new friends.

That's amazing A.E.! What a story...it warms my heart

I feel like being here is already having a positive effect on me- I'm really glad I found this community!

The list is very much worthwhile. Eventually you'll get back down to the chapter and scene level, but an important step is to view the story as a single entity, noting what helps and hinders in the telling.

Toward that end, another task I've undertaken before is to make an outline of the first draft. This is because there were two versions of my story at that point. One was the story that was in my head, while the other was the story I had actually written. By outlining *every chapter* (a tedious and hours-long process that made me think Sisyphus was a whiner) I was able to see things I had not known--had not clearly remembered--were there. This was both encouraging and discouraging, but was helpful.

Those both sound like great ideas. I do have a sort of very messy list, but I should go through it and organize it as a first step. I should try the outlining too. I've actually, surprisingly, stuck pretty closely to the structure and main plot points I had envisioned before I set out, but definitely had a lot of little changes within that, so I should make sure I know where the areas are that I need to focus on.

Also recording yourself with Quicktime or something ^^^^.

So, I do what Skip mentions above, but I don't type it. I talk it. I find when I talk it outloud to myself in quicktime, like I'm trying to tell it or explain it to someone in detail, I end up finding WAY MORE gaping holes than when I type it out. The recordings usually end up with me debating with myself about a particular issue I hadn't thought to address while writing.

The same goes for character arcs. When I try to talk out a character arc and record myself I find issues with consistancy or parts that need to be fleshed out become glaringly obvious.

It also means I can do it while doing dishes or laundry, and I can listen to it when I need a reminder, either in my commute to work, or while sweeping the kitchen or whatever.

That's a great idea. I often find talking through things helpful, and often use my SO as my sounding board, but even when I'm talking to him about my writing I'm actually really talking to myself a lot of the time. So if I try recording myself maybe I can skip the middle man when it's really that I'm trying to think things through out loud.

It is very discouraging finding all the plot holes but such is life. Editing is the nitty gritty where I find the holes. It's exhausting but worth it. Everyone has their own process but for me, I edit with the feel of things. I know the characters and story pretty well by the time I type the end that holes and errors pop out at me. It's all retained in my head. The editor always finds a plethora of mistakes for me to fix though. *tears*

Even just thinking back through the changes I need to make feels overwhelming, and I haven't even started revising yet! :-s But I think like you said, I just need to realize that's part of the process and it will all be worth it. And I guess I can always come here for commiseration

I'm actually digging my way out of a plot hole as we talk. We have a character who goes a little bit off the rails in reaction to something plot critical, but it turns out we never got around to explaining why. lol So now I'm pulling a short chapter out of my hat, and I am not a discovery writer. *sigh*

I am a discovery writer, and I often find myself wishing I was more of a plotter! I feel like this is one of those grass is always greener things Hope it goes well for you!

Hi,

I'm a little different to most others here. I am a complete pantster. I can't write to a plot for love nor money. But what I can do is set out the plot points and character arcs etc as I write them. I keep a second file open when I write called data. So my last book was A Bitter Brew and I worked on it with a second file called BitterBrewData into which I kept adding all the details as I wrote. My data files are organized into sections for characters, critters, time lines etc etc, and I refer to this file constantly as I work. This lets me deal with plot issues as I write. I'd suggest your first step in looking for plot issues is if you haven't got something like this for your work, create a file like it and just set out every detail as you read through your work. You can often see plot issues far better in this sort of timeline than you can in reading the book. Unfortunately the one thing you won't be able to do if you create this sort of file after writing the book, is refer to that vital last section in the file which I call notes. Essentially all my thoughts, questions, things to check out etc.

Next in my process is the ongoing overwriting. Each day when I start writing, I always start by reading what I've written, tweaking words here and there, and most importantly keeping the whole book fresh in my mind when I finally do start writing new stuff. It means that by the time I've got the book to the end of the first draft, I've probably rewritten it fifty times or more.

After that I start with the polishing. Checking all my notes and queries in the data file off. Then hitting all the edit programs, and using a text to speech program. I set the grammar / spell checkers to eleven. Most of what they pull up is completely useless. But the value is that it makes me reread my work often line by line. You pick up some mistakes but more often a lot of things you just want to rewrite that way.

Then comes the beta readers. This is invaluable. With them I want mainly comments through the files and probably the most important comment they can make is "I don't understand". It means I may not have made things clear even though they were clear in my head. I also keep a list of their comments in my data file so I can reflect on them as I go through the rest of the process, even if I don't want to change the book initially.

After that comes the editing. Two or three rounds with my editor depending on what she finds, with the book going back and forth between us. She works initially on story development and writing, and then the spelling and grammar. There's a lot of abuse involved in this step too! She really takes no prisoners. You need someone to be brutal in my opinion.

One thing I would add. Keep copies of your file at every edit. So the draft I send to my editor would be say "edit1. What I get back from her I call edit2, and the revised version I send back to her is edit3 etc etc. That way if necessary I can go back to previous versions to check on what was changed. Also, with my data file I update this as it goes through the edit process - so if I change a plot point I make a note underneath the original plot point to say changed to ...

The very last thing I do is start formatting for the various formats etc. Putting in chapter numbers, table of contents etc.

Hope that helps.

Cheers, Greg.

Thanks Greg! It sounds like you have your step-by-step process down pat...I hope to get to that point someday! I do have a file something like what you describe...as I said I'm a plantser so did have the main plot points semi-outlined before I started, but I've definitely been taking a lot of notes as I go, everything from "I need to flesh out who this person is" to "I should have X tell a story on page 86", etc. So I have a list that includes both big and small things- plot holes, needed characterizations, etc- but it's very messy and not at all organized.

I actually also followed a similar writing process at first in writing this draft- rereading what I had written every day that I sat down to write, and making ongoing changes. But, I stopped doing this once I like I was on solid footing with my story and my direction, and spent the rest of the time just writing away. So, the first part of my draft is a lot cleaner than the latter part, although in some ways the earlier part of my draft needs MORE work, because I learned more about my world and my characters as I was going, so the early part is missing more of that detail. But, writing that way was definitely helpful for me to gain my footing in the draft and feel like I knew and understood my draft. I mentioned above, that my current WIP is actually my second attempt at writing a novel- my first one was for NaNo 2016, and because I just kept plowing through and never reread anything, I felt like I didn't take the time I needed to get to know my draft and at the end I felt like I was looking at something I didn't understand at all, which made it really difficult to know where to even begin with tackling the draft I had. So, I think I learned from that that I need to write more slowly. This time around I do have a much better sense of my draft, which hopefully will put me in a better place to dive into my rewriting process.

That does help a lot, thanks!

 

[noob of the north]

Thanks noob- this gives me a completely different approach I can try, depending on how things go. It sounds like our approaches to writing are quite similar, so I wonder if that means similar approaches to revising will work as well? I'm glad to know there are others who flesh out their world after it has developed around the character and story in the drafting process! I'll check out the article as well

I think just trying out different things that you suspect might suit you and your story is the best way to go. You'll probably end up with a process very unique to you. Like skip.knox said: processes are as diverse as the stories we write. I'm still trying out new revision-stuff, even after finishing a couple of novels, so it feels like the process for revision and editing is never set in stone. Sometimes we scramble around, just searching for any inspiration and advice that will get the book done, and that might be part of the process too. But once you've done it you will have learned so much, and I wish you the best of luck. And don't get discouraged even though it all might seem daunting right now. From your original post you seem to have a good grasp on what to do in order of importance, and I have no doubt you'll get there. Someone said: "Little by little, we travel far." I think they were talking about writing. (I loved your question, by the way, because it's so interesting hearing about other people's processes.)

 

[RavenOfSummer]

I think just trying out different things that you suspect might suit you and your story is the best way to go. You'll probably end up with a process very unique to you. Like skip.knox said: processes are as diverse as the stories we write. I'm still trying out new revision-stuff, even after finishing a couple of novels, so it feels like the process for revision and editing is never set in stone. Sometimes we scramble around, just searching for any inspiration and advice that will get the book done, and that might be part of the process too. But once you've done it you will have learned so much, and I wish you the best of luck. And don't get discouraged even though it all might seem daunting right now. From your original post you seem to have a good grasp on what to do in order of importance, and I have no doubt you'll get there. Someone said: "Little by little, we travel far." I think they were talking about writing. (I loved your question, by the way, because it's so interesting hearing about other people's processes.)

Thanks so much for the encouragement noob And it definitely helps to hear that others, by hook or by crook, are getting it done. I do feel like I'm learning all the time with this thing they call writing, and revising my first draft feels like the next big step (or little step!) on that journey.