What Helps You Create A Great Plot?

[Ifinx]

Mythic Scribes,

I am curious as to what methods does everyone use to create the plot of your stories. I tend to just use a outline, but a lot of times it causes me to get writers block. I would like suggestions on what everyone here uses so that maybe it can help me get back into the grove of things.

Another question? Is the first novel, story or screen play always the hardest to write?

Thanks,

Ifinx

 

[BWFoster78]

There seem to be two general methods: Outlining and Discovery. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

With discovery, you simply pick a character and a situation and start writing. I find that wanting to find out what happens next tends to spur my enthusiasm for continuing to write. Of course, if you're not careful, you can end up getting into tight spots that are difficult to navigate from a plot standpoint. I think that a hybrid approach is cool - figure out, in general, where you want things to go and discover how you get there.

I have only written the one novel, and it's not 100% done with revisions yet, so I'm not the best person to ask that second question. I will say that it's easier now to finish stuff than it used to be. I've written an entire novelette and a complete short story recently with no issues. When I started writing, I'd often leave projects hanging. Can't say really what made the difference, though.

 

[Ifinx]

There seem to be two general methods: Outlining and Discovery. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

With discovery, you simply pick a character and a situation and start writing. I find that wanting to find out what happens next tends to spur my enthusiasm for continuing to write. Of course, if you're not careful, you can end up getting into tight spots that are difficult to navigate from a plot standpoint. I think that a hybrid approach is cool - figure out, in general, where you want things to go and discover how you get there.

I have only written the one novel, and it's not 100% done with revisions yet, so I'm not the best person to ask that second question. I will say that it's easier now to finish stuff than it used to be. I've written an entire novelette and a complete short story recently with no issues. When I started writing, I'd often leave projects hanging. Can't say really what made the difference, though.

Thank you for the reply. I will try the discovery method, and hopefully it will help cure this writers block.

The biggest problem I have with writing is I will write a page then go back and revise it. I know I should keep writing and keep writing then when its finished go back in revise, tuck, and nip. I just can't seem to stop. It's like OCD of writing lol.

Always,

Ifinx

 

[BWFoster78]

Thank you for the reply. I will try the discovery method, and hopefully it will help cure this writers block.

The biggest problem I have with writing is I will write a page then go back and revise it. I know I should keep writing and keep writing then when its finished go back in revise, tuck, and nip. I just can't seem to stop. It's like OCD of writing lol.

Always,

Ifinx

In general, you writing and revising and repeating that process is, imo, a complete waste of time. If you're writing, getting feedback, and improving your writing based on critique, your time is being spent becoming a better writer.

You need to either:

A - Just write. Get words on paper until you complete a story. If, overall, you think your skill level is such to where you can then go back and revise that draft to make something readable, I suggest doing this.

B - Concentrate on improving your writing. If your real problem is that you're revising because you don't feel you're good enough, you're probably not. Seek feedback and critique. Get better. Once you reach the level where you like what you're writing, continue on to A.

I think that, perhaps, others on this board will disagree with B. A concensus seems to be that writing improves writing, so writing is always a good thing to do. I tend to think that learning how to write improves writing much faster, and, depending on where you are on the learning curve, is a much better use of time.

 

[Anders Ämting]

I pretty much just think of the beginning, then I think of the ending, and then I fill in the blanks in the middle.

Often it's just a matter of "I think this scene would be cool/fun/interesting" and then trying to find a way to stitch it all together.

 

[MadMadys]

I constantly try to screw myself future-self over by creating "problems" for myself in the first few parts of my book; new characters, sub-plots, different sorts of elements that could lead to any number of things. Then, when advancing things along, I realize I have been cursed by past-self and have to resolve these issues. I like to think this leads to a more spontaneous/unpredictable story line and more interesting characters. It's also good practice in developing more complex plots.

In other words, give no regard for practicality in the now because you can fix it later! That plan got me through college!

 

[BWFoster78]

The plot of my first novel is relatively easy. I follow a single group from point A to point B. As such, I never really had any real problems.

The sequel should be interesting. The group from the first book separates into four parties, and I'll need to interweave the plot lines before bringing them back together at the end.

I'm not sure if it will be a problem with complexity, however, as much as with pacing and timing. I plan to write each of the four pieces as a linear segment and add in points of continuity later. Then I get to decide how to blend the chapters to create a cohesive whole.

 

[Sinitar]

I don't think you should start with this premise. Aiming for a great plot will, of course, cause writer's block because your writer ego will not tolerate anything apart from greatness. I may be wrong, but when I try to write the best plot ever, I attempt to tie loose ends and waste time on details that bog down the flow. Instead of creating a great plot, start with a decent plot. From there on, the rest will unfold itself. Characters will start making their own contribution with conflicts, your evil side will take over at some point and add nasty obstacles/setbacks and the plot will slowly get better.

If this does not help at all, I suggest you start with less prominent ideas. Leave yourself enough room to maneuver around a central idea and don't fixate on that one thing that you think your story really needs(IE: The death of a character, a love relationship, something that gave birth to the plot in the first place). When I used to do that, I was so obsessed with polishing that idea that I ignored a lot of important details. Vague ideas is what I currently use, mostly because of the creative liberty they offer. It's easier to deal with things when all I have are possibilities.

The plot of my first novel is relatively easy. I follow a single group from point A to point B. As such, I never really had any real problems.

Or you can use this formula. As you probably guessed already, I'm the type of writer who prefers to start from A and get through all the alphabet before reaching B As Brandon Sanderson said in the Way of Kings, it's not the journey that matters. It's how you make the journey. And this is what most readers want to see.

 

[Ifinx]

sub-plots

I am still new to writing so I am sure I know exactly what this is, but for the life of me I can't bring it to words. Anyone have a good example? Use Star Wars or LOTR if possible.

I don't think you should start with this premise. Aiming for a great plot will, of course, cause writer's block because your writer ego will not tolerate anything apart from greatness. I may be wrong, but when I try to write the best plot ever, I attempt to tie loose ends and waste time on details that bog down the flow. Instead of creating a great plot, start with a decent plot. From there on, the rest will unfold itself. Characters will start making their own contribution with conflicts, your evil side will take over at some point and add nasty obstacles/setbacks and the plot will slowly get better.

If this does not help at all, I suggest you start with less prominent ideas. Leave yourself enough room to maneuver around a central idea and don't fixate on that one thing that you think your story really needs(IE: The death of a character, a love relationship, something that gave birth to the plot in the first place). When I used to do that, I was so obsessed with polishing that idea that I ignored a lot of important details. Vague ideas is what I currently use, mostly because of the creative liberty they offer. It's easier to deal with things when all I have are possibilities.

Thank you. I've been working on this and maybe I'm just over thinking my story or something. I'm in a slow slow period at the moment. I think I am getting better.

To be honest I think I know what I need. Someone to sit down with me something and just talk about my book and let them bounce ideas off my head and/or suggestions. What do you all think?

Thanks,

Ifinx

 

[Catharsis]

I have used several plotting methods in the past, one of which has worked much better than the others. That is, I begin by generally developing a few main plot points which I wish to cover and also the characters which they influence. From that point on I simply write to cover the large expanses between those points.
This gives me a lot of ground to shape my work into the form which I originally was seeking as well as adding both large and small subplots and plot points which I hadn't thought of previously.

 

[MadMadys]

I am still new to writing so I am sure I know exactly what this is, but for the life of me I can't bring it to words. Anyone have a good example? Use Star Wars or LOTR if possible.

Let me see. Say in LotR, Gimli and Legolas starting off as enemies and becoming friends as they story goes until they're BFFs. It's related to the main story (take a walk to lose a ring) loosely but adds depth to the characters and world as a whole.

 

[ThinkerX]

Down through the decades, I've begun probably a hundred or more writing projects. Of those, most were isolated fragments. Several were stories that went nowhere because I had no goal or endpoint for the story.

The ones I deem 'finishable' all have some central theme (or more than one) with a definite endpoint in mind from the start. Most of the stories are set in the same world, which helps immenesly with the background stuff. But the tales themselves are mostly 'discovery' with 'known issues which have to be dealt with'.

'Labyrinth' is about transformation: a aristocrat enters a huge maze for one purpose, only to have another purpose take him over. The first version incorporated a huge amount of material which distracted from this, so I cut it (though parts of it might make a comeback in the sequel). Part of the hazard of discovery writing.

'Falling Towers' deals with a pair of rival wizardly civilizations facing collapse brought on by internal rebellion and external invasion. The theme here is the fall of the old and the dawn of the new. (It's been almost a year since I last looked at Falling Towers...hmmm...)

'Empire' is a sort of 'investigation' which turns into a chilling nightmare survival story.

 

[Sinitar]

Thank you. I've been working on this and maybe I'm just over thinking my story or something. I'm in a slow slow period at the moment. I think I am getting better.

To be honest I think I know what I need. Someone to sit down with me something and just talk about my book and let them bounce ideas off my head and/or suggestions. What do you all think?

Yes, that may be it. Been there, done that. To be honest, I've yet to finish a story that uses my current plotting methods, so I'm not even sure how well it works. By the looks of it, the plot seems appealing, motivating, and full of niches I can exploit once I get to writing. Having someone to discuss your book with offers a huge advantage. My brother, although clueless to the grandeur of my ideas, came up with a simple idea that changed a character arc completely. A different perception is what you need sometimes, as I tend to get excited about my ideas and overlook their flaws.

@ThinkerX: I really like the central themes of your stories.