A couple Issues

[EponasSong]

I am asking one of my groups on FB below and thought maybe you guys/gals could help with below.

So I'm hoping you guys and gals can help me with a few things. I am knee deep in my second book, Baiyne (yes spelled my own way) and even though I had a late start on it, it's starting to really take shape. It is technically the sequel to Eros and while it is set within a few months after the events of Eros, it's in a completely different kingdom and has a whole new set of casts.

One of the major issues I am still having trouble naming the kingdoms. There are technically 8, yes 8 kingdoms in this series. And not one of them have official names. I'm okay naming cities (and by that I mean barely). But names befitting kingdoms? Pfft. I'm down right horrible. It was a pain in my first book (as my alpha readers are finding out) but it is becoming down right debilitating in my second. The longer this goes on where I have to put a ___ every time I mention a kingdom, the bigger the hole I'm digging for myself. So my question is, how do you guys and gals name kingdoms? I tried a fantasy kingdom name generator but to no avail.

The biggest issue has yet to come. And that has to do with possible publication. There are a total of 4 books in this group. And all 4 of them serve as background stories to my main project. I took a step back and shelved my main project because it was a little too big for me to handle (yes, I admit my writing skill isn't quite up to par for such a big project), and I decided to write a series of smaller, more manageable prequels. (And no it is in no way abandoned).

I am 100% okay with never publishing these 4 books. I would of course highly prefer them to be published, but if it turns out they only equate to background info for my own knowledge and they help progress my writing skills, I still see them as a success. The problem lies if one or more don't meet the standard for publication. Without going into my main project, let's say all 4 books have a similar impact on my main project. To a point if only 2 or 3 of them made publication, it would be very odd. At least if I was a reader I would think that.

So how would you handle something like this? I am taking an all or nothing approach. Either they all are published or none at all. I'm obviously not going to make the decision to publish until all 4 are done. But on the very off chance all 4 are good enough to publish, should I publish them separately? Or all under one cover?

If all 4 are under one cover, we are talking a very massive book. Eros ended around 60k and Baiyne is looking to be a little bigger. The book with all four would be anywhere from 300k-400k. The plus is all 4 would be assured to be sold, but the book itself would be a higher price and even though it's a total of 4 stories, I fear readers would look at it in the context of 1 book and judge if the price is worth it or not.

The alternative is to release them all separately as 4 books at the same time. The plus is that the books individually will be cheaper and readers are more likely to take a chance on a new author if the book is smaller. But it also might mean some just don't sell.

And to make the above even more confusing, I'm still leaning towards traditional publishing so that throws another wrench. (Though I haven't completely ruled out independent.) If I do go the traditional route, above gets even more messy. I mean how do you even query such a thing? "Hi, I have 4 books and it's all or nothing. Have a nice day." Yeah that won't fly.

Good thing I have a while to decide traditional vs independent. Nonetheless, it is on my radar. As of right now I'm keeping both as a possibility and not closing any doors. I'm not majorly concerned about the publishing issue, but it's on my radar.

 

[Devor]

I think it's a little early for these kinds of questions. The main focus should be on improving the work. In my experience, plans change a lot as you go.

That said, it sounds like the main question is whether or not the primary work will be published traditionally or not, and then you can go back to make a decision on the prequels.

You can publish anything yourself on Amazon and other sites, even connect with a print on demand service. Whichever prequels, or even the main volume, a traditional publisher doesn't take you can always print on your own.

 

[EponasSong]

I think it's a little early for these kinds of questions. The main focus should be on improving the work. In my experience, plans change a lot as you go.

That said, it sounds like the main question is whether or not the primary work will be published traditionally or not, and then you can go back to make a decision on the prequels.

You can publish anything yourself on Amazon and other sites, even connect with a print on demand service. Whichever prequels, or even the main volume, a traditional publisher doesn't take you can always print on your own.

I'm not focusing on the publishing part too much, it just hit me last night and thought I would ask. Any insight on naming the kingdoms? That is what I'm most worried about right now. I've tried name generators to no avail. And with each book this problem becomes worse. Not sure what to do :/

 

[Devor]

Any insight on naming the kingdoms? That is what I'm most worried about right now. I've tried name generators to no avail. And with each book this problem becomes worse. Not sure what to do :/

It's not easy. I usually label a page with the alphabet running down the left side, and then I'll maybe hit a name generator and just start writing down syllables on the right side of the page. Then I'll pick a letter, and a syllable, and see if I can kind of mumble through them until it's a word I like.

J
K
L

Lua
Bryn
Fark

Jehlua Island
The Kerrfark Coast
The Leybryn Council

^Not quite a kingdom name there, but you get the idea.

I feel it also really helps to identify what every semi-decent-ish name feels like when it's done (Island, Coast, Council), to give the word a chance to grow on me or fade out, or to make it clearer later on how it can be tinkered with to work better.

 

[DragonOfTheAerie]

I am asking one of my groups on FB below and thought maybe you guys/gals could help with below.

So I'm hoping you guys and gals can help me with a few things. I am knee deep in my second book, Baiyne (yes spelled my own way) and even though I had a late start on it, it's starting to really take shape. It is technically the sequel to Eros and while it is set within a few months after the events of Eros, it's in a completely different kingdom and has a whole new set of casts.

One of the major issues I am still having trouble naming the kingdoms. There are technically 8, yes 8 kingdoms in this series. And not one of them have official names. I'm okay naming cities (and by that I mean barely). But names befitting kingdoms? Pfft. I'm down right horrible. It was a pain in my first book (as my alpha readers are finding out) but it is becoming down right debilitating in my second. The longer this goes on where I have to put a ___ every time I mention a kingdom, the bigger the hole I'm digging for myself. So my question is, how do you guys and gals name kingdoms? I tried a fantasy kingdom name generator but to no avail.

The biggest issue has yet to come. And that has to do with possible publication. There are a total of 4 books in this group. And all 4 of them serve as background stories to my main project. I took a step back and shelved my main project because it was a little too big for me to handle (yes, I admit my writing skill isn't quite up to par for such a big project), and I decided to write a series of smaller, more manageable prequels. (And no it is in no way abandoned).

I am 100% okay with never publishing these 4 books. I would of course highly prefer them to be published, but if it turns out they only equate to background info for my own knowledge and they help progress my writing skills, I still see them as a success. The problem lies if one or more don't meet the standard for publication. Without going into my main project, let's say all 4 books have a similar impact on my main project. To a point if only 2 or 3 of them made publication, it would be very odd. At least if I was a reader I would think that.

So how would you handle something like this? I am taking an all or nothing approach. Either they all are published or none at all. I'm obviously not going to make the decision to publish until all 4 are done. But on the very off chance all 4 are good enough to publish, should I publish them separately? Or all under one cover?

If all 4 are under one cover, we are talking a very massive book. Eros ended around 60k and Baiyne is looking to be a little bigger. The book with all four would be anywhere from 300k-400k. The plus is all 4 would be assured to be sold, but the book itself would be a higher price and even though it's a total of 4 stories, I fear readers would look at it in the context of 1 book and judge if the price is worth it or not.

The alternative is to release them all separately as 4 books at the same time. The plus is that the books individually will be cheaper and readers are more likely to take a chance on a new author if the book is smaller. But it also might mean some just don't sell.

And to make the above even more confusing, I'm still leaning towards traditional publishing so that throws another wrench. (Though I haven't completely ruled out independent.) If I do go the traditional route, above gets even more messy. I mean how do you even query such a thing? "Hi, I have 4 books and it's all or nothing. Have a nice day." Yeah that won't fly.

Good thing I have a while to decide traditional vs independent. Nonetheless, it is on my radar. As of right now I'm keeping both as a possibility and not closing any doors. I'm not majorly concerned about the publishing issue, but it's on my radar.

With names, you can try chopping up some real place names into syllables and then gluing them back together in different ways. Try looking into what region you think your imaginary world is based on or similar to and look up the names of cities and other places there in real life. Then try sticking together different middles and beginnings and ends.

 

[Penpilot]

With everything I name, I first think about what feeling do I want that person, place, or thing to have. I think about the characteristics of it and then try to come up with a name embodies the spirit of what i want. I know that's kind of vague, but that the best i got.

I sometimes use a random name generator to gather syllables that I like and build a name off of those components. Other times, I just pick what's simplest and run with it. If I come up with something better later, great. If not, then not.

 

[Night Gardener]

You can dig deep into your own lore for inspiration.

What were the ancient or pre-kingdom peoples calling the land they occupied? Who were they calling themselves? Would they focus on outstanding geological features to give directions/identify with? Terrain? Agricultural or mineral resources? Good hunting? Prosperous industry? We unwittingly inherit this knowledge in a name, without the original context from indigenous peoples or pre-incorporation, all the time.

For example, there's an over pass exit heading south on I-75 through Florida called "Moccasin Wallow Rd". Being a native Floridian, I know that road takes you to a river. Full of moccasins...venemous ornery snakes (and not comfy shoes, sadly) that like to wallow in the oxbow bend of a slow-moving marshy wide river. Incidentally, alligators love wallowing there, too. There's a resturant there called "Linger Lodge" that serves bush-meat and freshwater delicacies. It was originally a bait, tackle and fish gutting stand with some cots on a sleeping porch way back in the day for hunters/fishers to get off the river for the night. Before that, a prime fishing spot and canoe area for Natives. They all had a reason to keep going to the moccassin wallow in that part of the river. Locals all knew 'that' spot. That's how it got a name.

Generations built upon that. And now, tourists drive through and think it's a clever or cute name from some developer. Nope. It's a beautiful, if not slightly terrifying, stretch of lazy river meeting in a flood plain.

There's all kinds of named places in this region literally describing an important resource, a geological feature, creatures, etc. Or, it's an appropriated First Nations name used by the French and Spanish, then later English-speakers.

Look at your landscape throughout these kingdoms for ideas. The Gold Pines Kingdom. Twin Rivers Kingdom. Black Sand... etc.

Then, add a few historical families into the mix, or dieties. How about flowers, fruits, or vegetation? Animal Symbols? Industry?

"The Hammering Sands Kingdom." What imagery do you pick up on? Can you imagine how that name even originated?

I counter the 'naming a kingdom' conundrum with,
"WTF is a "France"? An "England"? Who exactly were the British, and why are these their Isles? Wait- then wtf were the Normans? Over there wait-- Why is this Emperor's City Forbidden? Who is 'Wu'? What's a 'Tang'? And, it's a Dynasty? Gtfo!

We readily "accept" names because they're Historic, and inherited. Your characters would probably accept names/ attributes much in the same way with some of the same residual curiosities. (Unless it's culturally or politically contentious, and inhabitants reject the name or title outright... like Hong Kong and Taiwan not wanting to be incorporated into The People's Republic of China.)

If it makes you feel any better, sometimes I think my kingdom names and towns sound WAY too much like suburban cookie-cutter McMansion communities and it haunts me... but I also grew up in the 90s housing boom with gated golf-course mansions, so-called planned developments and condo communities popping up around older neighborhoods... with names like "Featherstone", "Waterlefe", "The Preserve", "Greenfield", "Kensington Park", "Alamaeda East", "Indian Point", "Bayshore Gardens", "Eagles Landing", "Fox Grape", "Citrus Cove", "Orchid Crest", "Riverview Heights", etc.

They're little kingdoms unto themselves. People accepted the names just fine. Some names had context back to the origins of 'something' or 'someone' there earlier in time, others are hogwash words made to sound appealing when writing out directions. Can you tell me which word sets sound 'authentic' and which sound like gibberish?

I don't think readers are nearly as critical of names as we would lead ourselves to think. Sometimes, real names of places and peoples are kind of silly-sounding. And the people are usually proud of the silly name. (French Lick, anybody?) Or, sound like gibberish, but have real signifigance.

It's tricky if you're in a point in your writing where you need to 'commit' to a name. Don't put that kind of pressure on yourself. If you're using a computer, you can always 'edit all' function and swap it out if after using a name for a while it begins to irk you.
Get to a different set of placeholders words to begin with, then keep refining and deciding.

 

[skip.knox]

You said you tried name generators and they did not work.

Why not?

 

[bdcharles]

I use the Pseudo Elizabethan name generator and the Soybomb nonsense generator. Of course they give you vaguely anglicised ones, but the kingdoms of Chesterlark and Morrowfuse River, plus the Duchy of Commer, all agree with me...

 

[Derin Edala]

You can always put in something and change it later. In general I call my locations stuff like "Land of [People]" or "Between the Rivers" in whatever an older version of the native language is. Or you can name it after a heroic founder of the kingdom. This is how most places get their names in real life.