Bortasz
Troubadour
Hello. I was in medieval brotherhood and I was fighting in several battles with armour on my body. Both Chainmail and plate. My knowledge is not big but I'm happy to share it with everybody. especial to debunk stupidity from Hollywood.
I apologies in advance. I have dyslexia and English is not my native language. So if you have problem understanding anything ask.
First and most important Mythbusting.
No if you have any question about armours pleas put them here. I will answer to the best of my knowledge.
PS can somebody edit the Thread?
I apologies in advance. I have dyslexia and English is not my native language. So if you have problem understanding anything ask.
First and most important Mythbusting.
Gambeson
http://s1.gambeson.pl/pf/2728/przeszywanica-piechoty.jpg
Aketon
http://steel-mastery.com/images/products/full/woman-gambeson-1.jpg
Padded Jack
http://www.museumreplicas.com/image...-gambesons_robin-of-locksley-gambeson_429.jpg
Armed doublet
http://home.messiah.edu/~gdaub/armor/pictures/valentin/gussets.jpg
Or like is called in Poland Przeszywanica
http://www.wojmir.pl/gambeson007p.JPG
All this is different name for one simple item. Jacket that goes UNDER the metal.
And it is ALWAYS there.
Ancient Roman Legionaries wore under the armor subarmalis
https://www.google.pl/search?q=suba...6I7AaBy4CoCg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1400&bih=761
Like you see it can be made from leather.
There are evidence that gambeson can be trace back to 4 b.c. where Scythian use them.
The main purpose of all this jacket is simple. Amortization.
Imagine that you are in your kitchen.
Putting hand on the table. Now On the hand you put a desk that you use to cut vegetables and meat.
Now Imagine that somebody strike that desk with hammer.
Result: Broken bones.
Now imagine that you take you winter padded jacket and put it between the desk to cut meat, and you hand.
Now if somebody strikes with hammer you have a chance, how big it depend on the jacket,to have whole bones. You still will be hurt. But amortization that jacket gives you saves you from the real harm.
The gambeson have also other benefits.
- It protect from abrasions done by metal that was rubbing you skin for all day long.
- It protect metal of you armour from contacting you sweat. And by that from corrosion. Yes human sweat is acidic.
PH that deodorant commercials talk is not a myth. One guy from my brotherhood have complete ban on toughing the metal with bare hands because ALWAYS in matter of hours there was corrosion.
- It protect you from cold. This I quarantine you. Good gambeson is practically a winter jacket, and can be use as a counterpane.
If you have full gambeson (Head, body, legs) you will be always warm in the night.
Now biggest problem with gambeson is heat. If you fight in the middle of spring for hours you can extremely quickly raise body temperature. That will cause sweating. I remember that when I take off my gambeson it stick to me like second skin. That wet it was. You practically have portable sauna on you.
Dehydration is dangerous. I know three idiots that play "Who lost conscious first" game on the fields of Grunewald. They stand on top of the hill for several hours. It end with ambulance.
Some people were using a gambeson not as a part of armor, but as a armor.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/HRG2006/pikemensm.jpg
Gambeson is not perfect armour. But it is cheap, and to be honest it can be worn all day. It is like going through the day with winter padded jacket on you.
When arches and crossbowmen shoot ad you, the arrows and bolts maybe get through metal, but gambeson have big chance of stopping them.
That arrows and bolts lose big chunk of energy getting through metal, now they lose more going through gambeson. Stories about knight that look like porcupine with arrows being in them, came from this. Some of the knight could be lucky enough to have no wounds from arrows. Just bruisers.
As person who have on my back several types of armour I cannot imagine going in to battle without gambeson on me. I can imagine going without metal armour, but gambeson is a must.
Sadly many writers forget about gambeson. They use rule of cool and I'm banging my head of the wall when I read that somebody put metal piece on his bare skin and it protected him from anything. This is pure stupidity. Metal contacting you bare skin is dangerous. It will only prevent cutting, but every hit have some blunt energy and that will crush you bones.
The thickness of gambeson can go up to 2,5 centimetre or 1 inch.
It is made from flax
http://armstreet.com/catalogue/full...l-gambeson-with-flax-linen-exterior-sca-4.jpg
and leather.
https://www.google.pl/search?newwin...0j5.5.0....0...1c.1.52.img..7.0.0.vt2kLC5VWJo
Some use layers of flax, adding them one ad a time.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oCb6tzpMztk/S76xyzlFyAI/AAAAAAAAAD0/xKex2kdvPRA/s320/shoulders+front.JPG
http://steel-mastery.com/images/products/full/ordinary-gambeson-7.jpg
Others forcibly pack sheep fleece in tubes made from few layers of flax
http://www.wojmir.pl/gambeson006p.JPG
In all goal is to maximize amortization without reducing the movement.
Weight is between 8 - 10 kilograms.
Lastly remember that this is not only jacket. But also:
Protection going under the helmet.
https://www.google.pl/search?q=Piko...2h7AbY9IH4Bw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1400&bih=761
leg protection:
https://www.google.pl/search?newwin...8.0....0...1c.1.52.img..12.5.1099.yrRFnIMl45Q
And of course hands:
https://www.google.pl/search?newwin...10.0....0...1c.1.52.img..11.6.478.EO-eMuLpayM
http://s1.gambeson.pl/pf/2728/przeszywanica-piechoty.jpg
Aketon
http://steel-mastery.com/images/products/full/woman-gambeson-1.jpg
Padded Jack
http://www.museumreplicas.com/image...-gambesons_robin-of-locksley-gambeson_429.jpg
Armed doublet
http://home.messiah.edu/~gdaub/armor/pictures/valentin/gussets.jpg
Or like is called in Poland Przeszywanica
http://www.wojmir.pl/gambeson007p.JPG
All this is different name for one simple item. Jacket that goes UNDER the metal.
And it is ALWAYS there.
Ancient Roman Legionaries wore under the armor subarmalis
https://www.google.pl/search?q=suba...6I7AaBy4CoCg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1400&bih=761
Like you see it can be made from leather.
There are evidence that gambeson can be trace back to 4 b.c. where Scythian use them.
The main purpose of all this jacket is simple. Amortization.
Imagine that you are in your kitchen.
Putting hand on the table. Now On the hand you put a desk that you use to cut vegetables and meat.
Now Imagine that somebody strike that desk with hammer.
Result: Broken bones.
Now imagine that you take you winter padded jacket and put it between the desk to cut meat, and you hand.
Now if somebody strikes with hammer you have a chance, how big it depend on the jacket,to have whole bones. You still will be hurt. But amortization that jacket gives you saves you from the real harm.
The gambeson have also other benefits.
- It protect from abrasions done by metal that was rubbing you skin for all day long.
- It protect metal of you armour from contacting you sweat. And by that from corrosion. Yes human sweat is acidic.
PH that deodorant commercials talk is not a myth. One guy from my brotherhood have complete ban on toughing the metal with bare hands because ALWAYS in matter of hours there was corrosion.
- It protect you from cold. This I quarantine you. Good gambeson is practically a winter jacket, and can be use as a counterpane.
If you have full gambeson (Head, body, legs) you will be always warm in the night.
Now biggest problem with gambeson is heat. If you fight in the middle of spring for hours you can extremely quickly raise body temperature. That will cause sweating. I remember that when I take off my gambeson it stick to me like second skin. That wet it was. You practically have portable sauna on you.
Dehydration is dangerous. I know three idiots that play "Who lost conscious first" game on the fields of Grunewald. They stand on top of the hill for several hours. It end with ambulance.
Some people were using a gambeson not as a part of armor, but as a armor.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/HRG2006/pikemensm.jpg
Gambeson is not perfect armour. But it is cheap, and to be honest it can be worn all day. It is like going through the day with winter padded jacket on you.
When arches and crossbowmen shoot ad you, the arrows and bolts maybe get through metal, but gambeson have big chance of stopping them.
That arrows and bolts lose big chunk of energy getting through metal, now they lose more going through gambeson. Stories about knight that look like porcupine with arrows being in them, came from this. Some of the knight could be lucky enough to have no wounds from arrows. Just bruisers.
As person who have on my back several types of armour I cannot imagine going in to battle without gambeson on me. I can imagine going without metal armour, but gambeson is a must.
Sadly many writers forget about gambeson. They use rule of cool and I'm banging my head of the wall when I read that somebody put metal piece on his bare skin and it protected him from anything. This is pure stupidity. Metal contacting you bare skin is dangerous. It will only prevent cutting, but every hit have some blunt energy and that will crush you bones.
The thickness of gambeson can go up to 2,5 centimetre or 1 inch.
It is made from flax
http://armstreet.com/catalogue/full...l-gambeson-with-flax-linen-exterior-sca-4.jpg
and leather.
https://www.google.pl/search?newwin...0j5.5.0....0...1c.1.52.img..7.0.0.vt2kLC5VWJo
Some use layers of flax, adding them one ad a time.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oCb6tzpMztk/S76xyzlFyAI/AAAAAAAAAD0/xKex2kdvPRA/s320/shoulders+front.JPG
http://steel-mastery.com/images/products/full/ordinary-gambeson-7.jpg
Others forcibly pack sheep fleece in tubes made from few layers of flax
http://www.wojmir.pl/gambeson006p.JPG
In all goal is to maximize amortization without reducing the movement.
Weight is between 8 - 10 kilograms.
Lastly remember that this is not only jacket. But also:
Protection going under the helmet.
https://www.google.pl/search?q=Piko...2h7AbY9IH4Bw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1400&bih=761
leg protection:
https://www.google.pl/search?newwin...8.0....0...1c.1.52.img..12.5.1099.yrRFnIMl45Q
And of course hands:
https://www.google.pl/search?newwin...10.0....0...1c.1.52.img..11.6.478.EO-eMuLpayM
No if you have any question about armours pleas put them here. I will answer to the best of my knowledge.
PS can somebody edit the Thread?
Last edited: