Communication and Languages in Fantasy

[A. E. Lowan]

In most conversations you're going to have one language that dominates. When we encounter that, and we do it a lot because the fun! the bits of dialogue that aren't are indicated with italics. We juggle several different languages in our series, and translation is an issue a lot. Fortunately, it makes sense that in a world with so many languages being bandied about at any given time, there will be those who can act as translators. We do this with English, American Sign Language, British Sign Language, an advanced talk-to-text app on one (deaf) character's phone, French, Cuban Spanish (more incoming), Draconic, Faerie Gaelic, Dwarven, Japanese, and a thousand other niche-specific languages that have died out everywhere but in the immortal courts where they're still spoken. Lots of characters speaking English as a second language.

This is what it looks like when I have spoken English and telepathy in the same interaction, and a non-English speaker between them...

~~

Niki looked positively delighted, and Jo could feel it in his mind. Her eyes widened in exasperation. No. No. No. Niki, we have to go home.

As usual, he ignored her. "We are strangers, exploring - "

If you say "strange new worlds" I'm going to strangle you.

" - our options. We would love a native guide, if you are available."

Wolf is going to kill me.

Live a little.

She raised her hands in preparation to smack Niki's head, and then remembered their audience, so she ran them through her hair in frustration instead. "Fine, you win," she muttered. She looked at this Lucien and smiled. It was a crappy smile and she knew it. She didn't fake smile well. "Take us to your leader, I guess."

"Am I translating that?" Niki asked with a cheeky grin.

"Do it and I'm telling Wolf I dropped you in transit. I don't care."

 

[skip.knox]

That works for me. I've complicated my own writing by needing italics to render foreign words, which exist in Altearth in plenty. Were I start using it for other types of communication, it would get confusing fast. Fastly. Er...

I have some non-traditional communication happening in my WIP. I still haven't puzzled out good typography for it. That's why the Work is still in Progress. (sometimes I think I should call it WIHWRS--Work I Hope Will Progress Real Soon)

 

[D. Gray Warrior]

It might be tricky to pull off in writing, but perhaps he could use sign language. I recall some Native American tribes would use sign language as a lingua franca to communicate with other tribes.

You could just write, "The MC made some gestures with his hands, and the shaman nodded in response."

I encountered a similar dilemma in one of my own settings, but for space opera instead of fantasy. I had to come up with a way for humans to communicate with aliens since the latter aren't necessarily humanoid, and thus may not have all the same speech organs as us. The solution I came up with is a pictorial/logographic writing system where each glyph represents a concept or idea. If they can't make the same sounds, but they all have sight, so they can agree on what symbols mean what. Thus, all civilizations in the galaxy would communicate with each other in this script instead of through speech.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

It might be tricky to pull off in writing, but perhaps he could use sign language. I recall some Native American tribes would use sign language as a lingua franca to communicate with other tribes.

You could just write, "The MC made some gestures with his hands, and the shaman nodded in response."

I encountered a similar dilemma in one of my own settings, but for space opera instead of fantasy. I had to come up with a way for humans to communicate with aliens since the latter aren't necessarily humanoid, and thus may not have all the same speech organs as us. The solution I came up with is a pictorial/logographic writing system where each glyph represents a concept or idea. If they can't make the same sounds, but they all have sight, so they can agree on what symbols mean what. Thus, all civilizations in the galaxy would communicate with each other in this script instead of through speech.

Which is pretty much exactly what we do. This is from our first in series, Faerie Rising. Winter's father was born mute and is suffering from catastrophic depression, and she's drowning trying to do the work of many, his included.

~~

Winter watched his hands, his face. Nothing. “Papa, we have to do something. He’s going to tear the city apart.” She could hear the panic creeping into her own voice. She watched him. Nothing. She reached out and took his hands, giving him a small shake. “Listen to me, please! Papa, people are going to die. I know… I know you can’t do anything, but you have to give me permission to do something. To make an alliance with Erik or…”

She felt his hands move against her own and pulled away to let him speak. He flexed his long fingers in slow, halting movements, like clearing his throat after his very long silence, and then he signed in sluggish, methodical words, “Let him do what he wants.”

Winter felt her eyes widen as his meaning passed over her like cold water. “Papa?” She looked at his face, and his dull eyes were turned to face her.

His hands fluttered again. “Let it burn.”

She gasped and stood, her heel barking painfully on the edge of the ottoman. She tripped backward, weariness and shock making her clumsy, but righted herself and faced him down. “How could you?” she asked in a whisper, afraid that if she said it too loudly that his horrible words would become true. “How could you say that?”

“They’re all dead. We’re dead, too. No one cares. To hell with this place. Let it burn.”

 

[~Theletos~]

In my story, "Hunters" are able to communicate with animals, thus allowing for interracial/cultural conversation to happen naturally as a result of using "Chimera Tongue"

 

[Karlin]

I'm thinking of real life parallels. Common languages develop, whether pidgin, or even sign language (there's a fascinating study of a local sign language that developed in a village with many deaf people, in the Negev among the Bedouin). The problem is that you have travelers, people who don't stick around in one place for very long. If I stay a week in Japan, I am not going to learn Japanese (no, I didn't try, but it's a fair guess).

A question about the setting: does it necessarily follow that the surviving 'primitive' languages are not related at all? Think about Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire, where we today have several related languages ( this was even more the case within Italy itself, until fairly recently).

 

[BiggusBeardus]

I'm thinking of real life parallels. Common languages develop, whether pidgin, or even sign language (there's a fascinating study of a local sign language that developed in a village with many deaf people, in the Negev among the Bedouin). The problem is that you have travelers, people who don't stick around in one place for very long. If I stay a week in Japan, I am not going to learn Japanese (no, I didn't try, but it's a fair guess).

A question about the setting: does it necessarily follow that the surviving 'primitive' languages are not related at all? Think about Europe after the collapse of the Roman Empire, where we today have several related languages ( this was even more the case within Italy itself, until fairly recently).

The idea of related languages is possible. I haven't worked out a full history of the world, but a major catastrophic event happened around 2000 years before the story. Before that the world was settled globally and was advanced and modern. The catastrophe was magical in nature and mutated many of the races that already existed. So it is reasonable to think some of those mutated races of the current world were humans or whatever before and spoke the same languages. 2000 years is relatively short as far as world history is concerned, but it is enough time for "new" languages to develop. The English language developed around the 5th century CE (less than 2000 years ago). But those "new" languages could have their basis in a older language. I'll think on this for a while. Thanks for your response.

 

[A. E. Lowan]

I've always found this to be both awesome and educational. It gives a great idea of how languages move and flow and evolve over time.

 

[Prince of Spires]

The English language developed around the 5th century CE (less than 2000 years ago). But those "new" languages could have their basis in a older language

You're about 1000 years too early here. Modern English starts coming up around 1450-ish. Though it's hard to give an exact date, since it's almost always an evolving thing.

I love how there's like 1 big tree that covers most of the planet, and then there's this random little thing that's Uralic which is just detached from everything else. Humans are wonderful.

 

[Finchbearer]

The 5th century would be correct if Old English is what is being referred to. That is the origins of much of the English we speak today.

 

[BiggusBeardus]

The 5th century would be correct if Old English is what is being referred to. That is the origins of much of the English we speak today.

Yes, I was referring to Old English.

 

[TheKillerBs]

The 5th century would be correct if Old English is what is being referred to. That is the origins of much of the English we speak today.

This is an arbitrary cut-off date. The 5th century is when the Saxons, Angles, and Jutes, speaking the same language as the precursors of the northernmost dialects of Low German and the southernmost dialects of Jutland Danish sailed to England. The languages were still close enough that during the Great Heathen Invasion it was possible for the Anglo-Saxons to communicate with the Danes. There is no clear demarcation for the origins of a language unless you come to a point of creolisation

 

[Finchbearer]

This is an arbitrary cut-off date. The 5th century is when the Saxons, Angles, and Jutes, speaking the same language as the precursors of the northernmost dialects of Low German and the southernmost dialects of Jutland Danish sailed to England. The languages were still close enough that during the Great Heathen Invasion it was possible for the Anglo-Saxons to communicate with the Danes. There is no clear demarcation for the origins of a language unless you come to a point of creolisation

Do you mean to say that Old English was probably spoken earlier than this? As far as I’ve researched there is only written evidence of it in written form from the 7th century onwards - the 5th century is simply an earlier estimate of when it started being a prevelant ‘common tongue’.

 

[TheKillerBs]

Do you mean to say that Old English was probably spoken earlier than this? As far as I’ve researched there is only written evidence of it in written form from the 7th century onwards - the 5th century is simply an earlier estimate of when it started being a prevelant ‘common tongue’.

It was definitely spoken before this, though we mightn't call it English. The language of the Anglo-Saxons would've been much closer to it than to modern English though.

 

[Finchbearer]

It confuses me how Latin still gets put on such a pedestal - still gets taught in posh schools throughout England. What about Old English, Norse and other old languages? Why aren’t they as relevant.

 

[Ban]

It confuses me how Latin still gets put on such a pedestal - still gets taught in posh schools throughout England. What about Old English, Norse and other old languages? Why aren’t they as relevant.

Medicine, biology and law aren't based in Norse for one. Now I wouldn't mind more attention being put on old Germanic languages, but Latin does have greater real world use.

 

[BiggusBeardus]

Hey! I have a random question that relates to communication.

I'm writing a scene in my book and the characters have basically cell phones (magic communicator crystals since it's magic and all lol), but the communication is telepathic.

When I'm writing dialogue, do I need to indicate it is telepathic EVERY time? I am 980 words into the scene and I'm sounding repetitive with my dialogue tags indicating that the speech is telepathic. Is there a way I can indicate it once and let the reader assume it is telepathic for the rest of the scene? Do I use "said" as a tag since it is technically thoughts?

I'm not very good with the whole dialogue tags in the first place. I understand how to use them basically and when some dialogue doesn't need a tag, but the telepathy thing and unspoken thoughts in general are confusing me a little.

Any suggestions?

Oh and my bad on opening the history of the English language can of worms. My source was the Encyclopedia Britannica, I didn't really do any real research. But I guess the debate is still on topic for this thread.

 

[TheKillerBs]

It confuses me how Latin still gets put on such a pedestal - still gets taught in posh schools throughout England. What about Old English, Norse and other old languages? Why aren’t they as relevant.

It's about the prestige of the Roman Empire really, probably with a little bit of the importance of the Roman Catholic Church in the Medieval to Renaissance scholarship

 

[A. E. Lowan]

It confuses me how Latin still gets put on such a pedestal - still gets taught in posh schools throughout England. What about Old English, Norse and other old languages? Why aren’t they as relevant.

In the US at least, History of the English Language is commonly taken by the Lang and Lit set. What do we call it?

HEL.

 

[Prince of Spires]

When I'm writing dialogue, do I need to indicate it is telepathic EVERY time? I am 980 words into the scene and I'm sounding repetitive with my dialogue tags indicating that the speech is telepathic. Is there a way I can indicate it once and let the reader assume it is telepathic for the rest of the scene? Do I use "said" as a tag since it is technically thoughts?

It depends. If you use Italics for telepathic communication throughout your novel, then you don't need to indicate that they're doing that every single time. However, if you just put it in "qoutes", then you probably want to make certain that your characters are not actuall speaking each and every time. If you want detailed feedback, it's probably best to ask for feedback on a specific sample.

It confuses me how Latin still gets put on such a pedestal - still gets taught in posh schools throughout England. What about Old English, Norse and other old languages? Why aren’t they as relevant.

Besides its limited use in fields like medicin and biology, I think it's also very much a case of having lots of source material available and being a very determinate factor in western culture. Not saying that the Norse didn't have an impact (just look at the names for the days of the week). But the influences of the Romans can be seen in all factors of our society.